Solely depending on God's providence, will it make us contented or lazy?

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Solely depending on God's providence, will it make us contented or lazy?

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This topic is about the June 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, What Makes America Great by Bob Dowell


When the colonists encountered a challenging event his solace would be a providence reminder. Witness the steadfast faith revealed in his response to the colony’s challenge of crossing a perilous ocean to inhabit a New World wilderness: “since their desires were set on the ways of God they must rest on His providence.”
(Location 105 - Kindle version)

There are people who solely become contented (or say so) from what they get, and depending on their religious beliefs they call it God's will, destiny, law of nature, etc. Well, I have to agree that if you remain without trying new and risky things you cannot fail and then you will be happy. But that will cause you to remain where you are. So, depending on providence from above, is it a way to be contented or is it a way to cover your laziness?
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Re: Solely depending on God's providence, will it make us contented or lazy?

Post by EricPH »

Witness the steadfast faith revealed in his response to the colony’s challenge of crossing a perilous ocean to inhabit a New World wilderness: “since their desires were set on the ways of God they must rest on His providence.”
Sushan wrote: June 4th, 2022, 9:13 pm Well, I have to agree that if you remain without trying new and risky things you cannot fail and then you will be happy. But that will cause you to remain where you are.
These pioneers took a great risk leaving everything they knew and to take their families on a perilous journey. Faith and trust in God seems to have given them the courage to venture into the unknown.
There are people who solely become contented (or say so) from what they get, and depending on their religious beliefs they call it God's will, destiny, law of nature, etc.So, depending on providence from above, is it a way to be contented or is it a way to cover your laziness?
A friend of a church minister was shot and killed by a gang of youths in Jamaica about twenty years ago. After the funeral, the minister and a few of the congregation prayed for these youths, then said, what can we do to help them? They went out to find and to engage with these youths carrying guns; living in poverty and on drugs. From these beginnings; Street Pastors was launched and there are now about fifteen thousand volunteers. I have been a volunteer street pastor for fourteen years, I have lost count of the number of times we have walked in the middle of angry drunken violence. We can be out until 4am; we don't do self defence, or carry protective equipment. I am 73 and we have some amazing volunteers in their eighties.

I don't believe that trusting in God makes people lazy or content. I can only say; that in times of confronting violence with weapons; I have experienced a profound sense of peace that is beyond my understanding. I would not have considered this possible without a faith and trust in God.
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Re: Solely depending on God's providence, will it make us contented or lazy?

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"Solely depending on God's providence, will it make us contented or lazy?"

The Gods help those who help themselves. I.e. if we just sit there, and expect God(s) to step in and make our lives better, we're going to be disappointed.
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Re: Solely depending on God's providence, will it make us contented or lazy?

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Sushan wrote: June 4th, 2022, 9:13 pm ... Well, I have to agree that if you remain without trying new and risky things you cannot fail and then you will be happy. But that will cause you to remain where you are. So, depending on providence from above, is it a way to be contented or is it a way to cover your laziness?
You seem to imply that it is better to unhappily not remain where you are than to remain happily where you are. Are you serious?
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Re: Solely depending on God's providence, will it make us contented or lazy?

Post by Gee »

Not long after West Side Story came out decades ago, I read an article about Rita Moreno, who starred in that movie. The interviewer asked Ms. Moreno what she did to become so successful at such an early age. She responded, "I work like everything depends on me, and I pray like everything depends on God".

I was impressed then and never forgot it.

Gee
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Re: Solely depending on God's providence, will it make us contented or lazy?

Post by stevie »

stevie wrote: June 7th, 2022, 2:54 am
Sushan wrote: June 4th, 2022, 9:13 pm ... Well, I have to agree that if you remain without trying new and risky things you cannot fail and then you will be happy. But that will cause you to remain where you are. So, depending on providence from above, is it a way to be contented or is it a way to cover your laziness?
You seem to imply that it is better to unhappily not remain where you are than to remain happily where you are. Are you serious?
Another thought occurred to me: Laziness is a problem only if there is something that needs to be done but can't be done due to laziness. If there isn't anything that necessarily needs to be done then laziness isn't a problem and perfectly compatible with present and future well-being.
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Re: Solely depending on God's providence, will it make us contented or lazy?

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EricPH wrote: June 5th, 2022, 2:42 am
Witness the steadfast faith revealed in his response to the colony’s challenge of crossing a perilous ocean to inhabit a New World wilderness: “since their desires were set on the ways of God they must rest on His providence.”
Sushan wrote: June 4th, 2022, 9:13 pm Well, I have to agree that if you remain without trying new and risky things you cannot fail and then you will be happy. But that will cause you to remain where you are.
These pioneers took a great risk leaving everything they knew and to take their families on a perilous journey. Faith and trust in God seems to have given them the courage to venture into the unknown.
There are people who solely become contented (or say so) from what they get, and depending on their religious beliefs they call it God's will, destiny, law of nature, etc.So, depending on providence from above, is it a way to be contented or is it a way to cover your laziness?
A friend of a church minister was shot and killed by a gang of youths in Jamaica about twenty years ago. After the funeral, the minister and a few of the congregation prayed for these youths, then said, what can we do to help them? They went out to find and to engage with these youths carrying guns; living in poverty and on drugs. From these beginnings; Street Pastors was launched and there are now about fifteen thousand volunteers. I have been a volunteer street pastor for fourteen years, I have lost count of the number of times we have walked in the middle of angry drunken violence. We can be out until 4am; we don't do self defence, or carry protective equipment. I am 73 and we have some amazing volunteers in their eighties.

I don't believe that trusting in God makes people lazy or content. I can only say; that in times of confronting violence with weapons; I have experienced a profound sense of peace that is beyond my understanding. I would not have considered this possible without a faith and trust in God.
I have no issue with people believing in God, or any other religious leaders. People use different ways and means to gain courage, and religion and religious faith is one way among them.

But will it be healthy to totally believe in God and His plan to one's self without actually trying anything new or providing for one's own self atleast once in a while? You have done a marvellous job to reduce gang and gun violence. But don't you feel like it was you (and your team) did that thing for the humanity rather than some untouchable, faraway living super power?
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

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Re: Solely depending on God's providence, will it make us contented or lazy?

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Pattern-chaser wrote: June 6th, 2022, 9:46 am "Solely depending on God's providence, will it make us contented or lazy?"

The Gods help those who help themselves. I.e. if we just sit there, and expect God(s) to step in and make our lives better, we're going to be disappointed.
I agree. Then what about when we are unfairly wronged? Should we fight for ourselves, or should we accept that as God's wish and carry on with our life without fighting for our rights? Can depending on God's providence and concept of 'God's wish' in such circumstances prevent us from getting any harm, but to loose something that we value in expense?
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Re: Solely depending on God's providence, will it make us contented or lazy?

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stevie wrote: June 7th, 2022, 2:54 am
Sushan wrote: June 4th, 2022, 9:13 pm ... Well, I have to agree that if you remain without trying new and risky things you cannot fail and then you will be happy. But that will cause you to remain where you are. So, depending on providence from above, is it a way to be contented or is it a way to cover your laziness?
You seem to imply that it is better to unhappily not remain where you are than to remain happily where you are. Are you serious?
I do not imply that, but it has been done throughout the history by various preachers and in addition some of the ancestral fathers of America. I think positive or negative outcomes are gained as results of various decisions and processes rather than that being decisions or wishes of a superior being, and believing on the latter will make one a lazy fellow, which is not quite good or productive.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Re: Solely depending on God's providence, will it make us contented or lazy?

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Gee wrote: June 7th, 2022, 5:09 pm Not long after West Side Story came out decades ago, I read an article about Rita Moreno, who starred in that movie. The interviewer asked Ms. Moreno what she did to become so successful at such an early age. She responded, "I work like everything depends on me, and I pray like everything depends on God".

I was impressed then and never forgot it.

Gee
So what has actually lead her to her success? Was it her hard working, or her hard praying? I think it is the former. The latter may have provided some moral support, but her hard working is what should really be praised rather than the God.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Re: Solely depending on God's providence, will it make us contented or lazy?

Post by Sushan »

stevie wrote: June 8th, 2022, 1:20 pm
stevie wrote: June 7th, 2022, 2:54 am
Sushan wrote: June 4th, 2022, 9:13 pm ... Well, I have to agree that if you remain without trying new and risky things you cannot fail and then you will be happy. But that will cause you to remain where you are. So, depending on providence from above, is it a way to be contented or is it a way to cover your laziness?
You seem to imply that it is better to unhappily not remain where you are than to remain happily where you are. Are you serious?
Another thought occurred to me: Laziness is a problem only if there is something that needs to be done but can't be done due to laziness. If there isn't anything that necessarily needs to be done then laziness isn't a problem and perfectly compatible with present and future well-being.
I think laziness is contagious, and if we let that remain it can get worsened and affect a wide range of things. Just lying on your bed doing nothing on a Sunday mmorning can be okay. But if you feel like it is hard to get up from their even after hours, then you are starting to have a problem.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

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Re: Solely depending on God's providence, will it make us contented or lazy?

Post by stevie »

Sushan wrote: June 8th, 2022, 10:05 pm
stevie wrote: June 7th, 2022, 2:54 am
Sushan wrote: June 4th, 2022, 9:13 pm ... Well, I have to agree that if you remain without trying new and risky things you cannot fail and then you will be happy. But that will cause you to remain where you are. So, depending on providence from above, is it a way to be contented or is it a way to cover your laziness?
You seem to imply that it is better to unhappily not remain where you are than to remain happily where you are. Are you serious?
I do not imply that, but it has been done throughout the history by various preachers and in addition some of the ancestral fathers of America. I think positive or negative outcomes are gained as results of various decisions and processes rather than that being decisions or wishes of a superior being, and believing on the latter will make one a lazy fellow, which is not quite good or productive.
So you are expressing yourself from an US American cultural conceptual framing, I see and this framing is alien to me.
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Re: Solely depending on God's providence, will it make us contented or lazy?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Pattern-chaser wrote: June 6th, 2022, 9:46 am "Solely depending on God's providence, will it make us contented or lazy?"

The Gods help those who help themselves. I.e. if we just sit there, and expect God(s) to step in and make our lives better, we're going to be disappointed.
Sushan wrote: June 8th, 2022, 10:02 pm I agree. Then what about when we are unfairly wronged? Should we fight for ourselves, or should we accept that as God's wish and carry on with our life without fighting for our rights? Can depending on God's providence and concept of 'God's wish' in such circumstances prevent us from getting any harm, but to loose something that we value in expense?
As we commonly do in your topics, we are now considering messy, real-world, issues in the light of some theoretical idea or ideology. And we find, as we nearly always do, that the real world is not as clear-cut as we might prefer. 😉

In the example you offer, we could observe that the acceptance that comes from the 'knowledge' that God will take care of everything is probably beneficial. On the other hand, it is not ideal to rely on some other being (or Being) to sort out our problems, and maybe this is not acceptance but appeasement or, more plainly, cowardice? The order of the day seems to be the realisation that there is no One Rule that, if we follow it, will make everything come out 'right'.
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Re: Solely depending on God's providence, will it make us contented or lazy?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

stevie wrote: June 9th, 2022, 5:54 am So you are expressing yourself from an US American cultural conceptual framing, I see and this framing is alien to me.
🤣👍 I think perhaps that framing is alien to all except Americans. Their world-view is ... singular, I find. 😉
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Re: Solely depending on God's providence, will it make us contented or lazy?

Post by Gee »

Sushan wrote: June 8th, 2022, 10:07 pm
Gee wrote: June 7th, 2022, 5:09 pm Not long after West Side Story came out decades ago, I read an article about Rita Moreno, who starred in that movie. The interviewer asked Ms. Moreno what she did to become so successful at such an early age. She responded, "I work like everything depends on me, and I pray like everything depends on God".

I was impressed then and never forgot it.

Gee
So what has actually lead her to her success? Was it her hard working, or her hard praying? I think it is the former. The latter may have provided some moral support, but her hard working is what should really be praised rather than the God.
Why does it have to be either/or -- hard work or hard praying? Have you never heard of "work smarter not harder"? A bank robber might work very hard to rob banks and even be quite successful at doing so, but does that make him a success?

You seem to be expressing a very simplistic or it could even be called a juvenile or immature understanding of "God" ideas.

If anything needs to be praised, it would be her success.

Gee
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