Of course, you can suggest whatever you like. But I wonder if you mean that the Self and the "I am" are the same thing? It would be great if you would clarify this, and not answer with another question., What do you mean by "I am"???
No Mind --> No Thoughts --> No Issues : Do you agree?
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Re: No Mind --> No Thoughts --> No Issues : Do you agree?
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Re: No Mind --> No Thoughts --> No Issues : Do you agree?
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Re: No Mind --> No Thoughts --> No Issues : Do you agree?
The “I am” is something separate from consciousness types.Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑August 11th, 2022, 10:22 amOf course, you can suggest whatever you like. But I wonder if you mean that the Self and the "I am" are the same thing? It would be great if you would clarify this, and not answer with another question., What do you mean by "I am"???
Can I ask you what your definition of consciousness is if you believe that you are no more than it?
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Re: No Mind --> No Thoughts --> No Issues : Do you agree?
I have not mentioned anything about what I believe.
Final attempt: When you type "I am", do you mean to refer to "the Self", or to something different from "the Self" (and if so, what)?
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Re: No Mind --> No Thoughts --> No Issues : Do you agree?
I would say that the “I am” is a part of our being so yes could be termed self.Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑August 11th, 2022, 12:13 pmI have not mentioned anything about what I believe.
Final attempt: When you type "I am", do you mean to refer to "the Self", or to something different from "the Self" (and if so, what)?
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Re: No Mind --> No Thoughts --> No Issues : Do you agree?
I would say that the “I am” is a part of our being so yes could be termed self.Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑August 11th, 2022, 12:13 pmI have not mentioned anything about what I believe.
Final attempt: When you type "I am", do you mean to refer to "the Self", or to something different from "the Self" (and if so, what)?
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Re: No Mind --> No Thoughts --> No Issues : Do you agree?
Jacob, could you please explain how "I am" is more complex in your mind.Joshua10 wrote: ↑August 11th, 2022, 8:02 amUmm an interesting point of view Sy Borg,I would suggest that the “I am” has far more complexities to it than just a mere microbe.Sy Borg wrote: ↑August 11th, 2022, 6:56 amThat is the "I am" of a microbe, plant or other non-brained organisms. Their existence, as with all life, is inherently a separation from everything else. An organism's very being defies the environment that would otherwise claim it, and without any the mental functions listed.
I am = I am here now, whether I realise it or not :)
Such dynamics are not cleanly separate (despite our tendency to use strictly separate terms). I suspect that your sense of "I am" also includes elements of "I feel" and "I think".
The whole concept of "I am" is simplicity, the basis on which greater complexity builds, with its complexity seemingly purely physical (as in organisms are physically complex) rather than conceptual.
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Re: No Mind --> No Thoughts --> No Issues : Do you agree?
Awareness and Unawareness are meaningless unless there is something that is either aware or unaware.I would suggest that the only thing that can make sense of anything and introduce CONTROL is the “I am”.The “l am” has simplicity in as much that no tags can be applied to it such as awareness;consciousness;thoughts;emotions because the “I am” experiences all those things but is not those things,In that respect there is complexity associated with the “I am” as well.Sy Borg wrote: ↑August 11th, 2022, 9:20 pmJacob, could you please explain how "I am" is more complex in your mind.Joshua10 wrote: ↑August 11th, 2022, 8:02 amUmm an interesting point of view Sy Borg,I would suggest that the “I am” has far more complexities to it than just a mere microbe.Sy Borg wrote: ↑August 11th, 2022, 6:56 amThat is the "I am" of a microbe, plant or other non-brained organisms. Their existence, as with all life, is inherently a separation from everything else. An organism's very being defies the environment that would otherwise claim it, and without any the mental functions listed.
I am = I am here now, whether I realise it or not
Such dynamics are not cleanly separate (despite our tendency to use strictly separate terms). I suspect that your sense of "I am" also includes elements of "I feel" and "I think".
The whole concept of "I am" is simplicity, the basis on which greater complexity builds, with its complexity seemingly purely physical (as in organisms are physically complex) rather than conceptual.
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Re: No Mind --> No Thoughts --> No Issues : Do you agree?
The “l am” sits above awareness/unawareness which sits above consciousness types which sit above thoughts types which sit above emotion types.
The “I am” experiences everything below it.
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Re: No Mind --> No Thoughts --> No Issues : Do you agree?
Logically, no organism can emote or think without already having a sense of being. However, plenty of organisms would have a sense of being, based on their attempts to stay alive, but they do not emote or think.
These dynamics, of course, are tendencies. There is no hard line between "I am", awareness, emotions and thoughts in animals that display all of those traits, but not all organisms are capable of them.
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Re: No Mind --> No Thoughts --> No Issues : Do you agree?
The "I am", then, is the self, the whole self, body, mind and anything else that forms part of a whole person, maybe even spirit or soul?
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Re: No Mind --> No Thoughts --> No Issues : Do you agree?
I would say that if there is 2 separate elements to the “I am” which I am comfortable is separate to all the elements mentioned above, then I am not AWARE of it at this point.Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑August 12th, 2022, 5:20 amThe "I am", then, is the self, the whole self, body, mind and anything else that forms part of a whole person, maybe even spirit or soul?
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Re: No Mind --> No Thoughts --> No Issues : Do you agree?
At least there is a sort of common hierarchy at the end of the day even if we can’t agree on the direction.Sy Borg wrote: ↑August 12th, 2022, 5:00 am Joshua, I see the hierarchy in the other direction, which is perhaps a reflection of your religious top-down worldview and my secular bottom-up worldview.
Logically, no organism can emote or think without already having a sense of being. However, plenty of organisms would have a sense of being, based on their attempts to stay alive, but they do not emote or think.
These dynamics, of course, are tendencies. There is no hard line between "I am", awareness, emotions and thoughts in animals that display all of those traits, but not all organisms are capable of them.
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Re: No Mind --> No Thoughts --> No Issues : Do you agree?
Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑August 12th, 2022, 5:20 am The "I am", then, is the self, the whole self, body, mind and anything else that forms part of a whole person, maybe even spirit or soul?
If I understand you correctly, you seem to be saying that "the Self", the "I am", is separate to all the elements mentioned above, but those elements that I mentioned referred to the WHOLE person, body, mind, and the rest. How can the "I am" be separate from the Whole? If it is separate from the Whole, it is distinct, and presumably independent in its own right, or part of something other than this Whole.
I can only assume I have misunderstood (again), as this doesn't seem to make sense?
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Re: No Mind --> No Thoughts --> No Issues : Do you agree?
Yes I would say that the “I am” is an independent part of the whole.Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑August 12th, 2022, 8:19 amPattern-chaser wrote: ↑August 12th, 2022, 5:20 am The "I am", then, is the self, the whole self, body, mind and anything else that forms part of a whole person, maybe even spirit or soul?If I understand you correctly, you seem to be saying that "the Self", the "I am", is separate to all the elements mentioned above, but those elements that I mentioned referred to the WHOLE person, body, mind, and the rest. How can the "I am" be separate from the Whole? If it is separate from the Whole, it is distinct, and presumably independent in its own right, or part of something other than this Whole.
I can only assume I have misunderstood (again), as this doesn't seem to make sense?
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