Do we have a Perfect Present?

Use this forum to discuss the July 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, The Truth Is Beyond Belief!: Some thoughts to make you think about the power of your thoughts…by Jerry Durr
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Sushan
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Do we have a Perfect Present?

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This topic is about the July 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, The Truth Is Beyond Belief!: Some thoughts to make you think about the power of your thoughts…by Jerry Durr


Anger, guilt, fear, worry, have always been of our own making, while Peace and Love are of God's. We are creating an imperfect past and future in our minds, while God has created The Perfect Present in Reality.
(Page 82)

Our thoughts about the past and future cannot affect the perfection of The Present. But they can, and most certainly do, affect the way we see and experience this perfection.
(Page 89)


According to the author our present is perfect, and it is the God who makes it so. But we mix it up with our bad and worrisome thoughts, which are our own creations.

Do we have nothing to do with the presence of our present? Was it never a result of our past? Can we all agree that our present is perfect, as this author is suggesting?
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
stevie
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Re: Do we have a Perfect Present?

Post by stevie »

Sushan wrote: July 4th, 2022, 2:54 pm According to the author our present is perfect, and it is the God who makes it so. But we mix it up with our bad and worrisome thoughts, which are our own creations.

Do we have nothing to do with the presence of our present? Was it never a result of our past? Can we all agree that our present is perfect, as this author is suggesting?
Maybe what he talks about is similar or comes close to the famous "being in the here and now", an experience of which some individuals are very fond of.
mankind ... must act and reason and believe; though they are not able, by their most diligent enquiry, to satisfy themselves concerning the foundation of these operations, or to remove the objections, which may be raised against them [Hume]
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Re: Do we have a Perfect Present?

Post by NeilWallace »

The Author is presumably not an Ukrainian or Yemeni refugee. Suggesting to them to redirect the presence of their present, or that their present is perfect, and that God has made their present perfect- the only issue being their bad or worrisome thoughts (rather than their house been destroyed by
a missile), which are their own creation might come over as somewhat sanctimonious.

The authors thoughts to me are more self help type easy listening mantras for First World problem type environments.
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Re: Do we have a Perfect Present?

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stevie wrote: July 5th, 2022, 1:00 am
Sushan wrote: July 4th, 2022, 2:54 pm According to the author our present is perfect, and it is the God who makes it so. But we mix it up with our bad and worrisome thoughts, which are our own creations.

Do we have nothing to do with the presence of our present? Was it never a result of our past? Can we all agree that our present is perfect, as this author is suggesting?
Maybe what he talks about is similar or comes close to the famous "being in the here and now", an experience of which some individuals are very fond of.
Living in the present moment is different than the present mmoment being perfect. Imagine when we fail in something. We feel sad and defeated at the present moment, and our present is not perfect. If we choose to lament over it, then definitely our future too will be doomed. But the cause for our sadness in this example lies in our present.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Re: Do we have a Perfect Present?

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The author is probably not using the word present to outline a description of what’s happening in the present. The fact that we have a present moment. If one dives deep, you might find that “the present” is actually the only thing we have. Not once in our life are we actually existing in the past or the future. The past and the future are created by thought.
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Re: Do we have a Perfect Present?

Post by stevie »

Sushan wrote: July 11th, 2022, 10:24 pm
stevie wrote: July 5th, 2022, 1:00 am
Sushan wrote: July 4th, 2022, 2:54 pm According to the author our present is perfect, and it is the God who makes it so. But we mix it up with our bad and worrisome thoughts, which are our own creations.

Do we have nothing to do with the presence of our present? Was it never a result of our past? Can we all agree that our present is perfect, as this author is suggesting?
Maybe what he talks about is similar or comes close to the famous "being in the here and now", an experience of which some individuals are very fond of.
Living in the present moment is different than the present mmoment being perfect. Imagine when we fail in something. We feel sad and defeated at the present moment, and our present is not perfect. If we choose to lament over it, then definitely our future too will be doomed. But the cause for our sadness in this example lies in our present.
You are right. Maybe the best is to live in a selfless present
mankind ... must act and reason and believe; though they are not able, by their most diligent enquiry, to satisfy themselves concerning the foundation of these operations, or to remove the objections, which may be raised against them [Hume]
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Re: Do we have a Perfect Present?

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NeilWallace wrote: July 5th, 2022, 9:12 pm The Author is presumably not an Ukrainian or Yemeni refugee. Suggesting to them to redirect the presence of their present, or that their present is perfect, and that God has made their present perfect- the only issue being their bad or worrisome thoughts (rather than their house been destroyed by
a missile), which are their own creation might come over as somewhat sanctimonious.

The authors thoughts to me are more self help type easy listening mantras for First World problem type environments.
I totally agree with you. There are people who literally suffer at the present, and I think Sri Lanka too can be added to the list that you mentioned. None of them suffer because of their thoughts, but because of the actual practical situations. So I do not see a way to apply this author's idea of a perfect present to these people.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Re: Do we have a Perfect Present?

Post by Vita »

coolwhip27 wrote: July 12th, 2022, 9:08 am The author is probably not using the word present to outline a description of what’s happening in the present. The fact that we have a present moment. If one dives deep, you might find that “the present” is actually the only thing we have. Not once in our life are we actually existing in the past or the future. The past and the future are created by thought.
The word perfect, however, implies infinitely good, not just flawless. If I got rid of the past and future, I wouldn't have good or bad to compare the present to, and I could certainly find no flaw but wouldn't consider it perfect.
any ideas?
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Re: Do we have a Perfect Present?

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Vita wrote: July 13th, 2022, 11:58 pm
coolwhip27 wrote: July 12th, 2022, 9:08 am The author is probably not using the word present to outline a description of what’s happening in the present. The fact that we have a present moment. If one dives deep, you might find that “the present” is actually the only thing we have. Not once in our life are we actually existing in the past or the future. The past and the future are created by thought.
The word perfect, however, implies infinitely good, not just flawless. If I got rid of the past and future, I wouldn't have good or bad to compare the present to, and I could certainly find no flaw but wouldn't consider it perfect.
Why do you think you can measure it? If it isn’t perfect, then you think what should be is divided between what is. When what is and what should be are the same thing, no opinion or measurement of how “good” the present is matters.
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Re: Do we have a Perfect Present?

Post by Vita »

coolwhip27 wrote: July 14th, 2022, 9:31 am
Vita wrote: July 13th, 2022, 11:58 pm
coolwhip27 wrote: July 12th, 2022, 9:08 am The author is probably not using the word present to outline a description of what’s happening in the present. The fact that we have a present moment. If one dives deep, you might find that “the present” is actually the only thing we have. Not once in our life are we actually existing in the past or the future. The past and the future are created by thought.
The word perfect, however, implies infinitely good, not just flawless. If I got rid of the past and future, I wouldn't have good or bad to compare the present to, and I could certainly find no flaw but wouldn't consider it perfect.
Why do you think you can measure it? If it isn’t perfect, then you think what should be is divided between what is. When what is and what should be are the same thing, no opinion or measurement of how “good” the present is matters.
Shouldn't it be good though? If it is neutral it is less than perfect because perfection has nothing above it.
any ideas?
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Re: Do we have a Perfect Present?

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coolwhip27 wrote: July 12th, 2022, 9:08 am The author is probably not using the word present to outline a description of what’s happening in the present. The fact that we have a present moment. If one dives deep, you might find that “the present” is actually the only thing we have. Not once in our life are we actually existing in the past or the future. The past and the future are created by thought.
Everything changes. So is the present moment. When I finish typing this, the moment that I started this post will be long gone. Yes, present is the only thing that we have. But that does not mean our past is only a thought (we can say that regarding our future since it is yet to come). We get results in the present for what we did in the past. So the past should have really existed, rather than being a mere thought.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Re: Do we have a Perfect Present?

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stevie wrote: July 12th, 2022, 3:12 pm
Sushan wrote: July 11th, 2022, 10:24 pm
stevie wrote: July 5th, 2022, 1:00 am
Sushan wrote: July 4th, 2022, 2:54 pm According to the author our present is perfect, and it is the God who makes it so. But we mix it up with our bad and worrisome thoughts, which are our own creations.

Do we have nothing to do with the presence of our present? Was it never a result of our past? Can we all agree that our present is perfect, as this author is suggesting?
Maybe what he talks about is similar or comes close to the famous "being in the here and now", an experience of which some individuals are very fond of.
Living in the present moment is different than the present mmoment being perfect. Imagine when we fail in something. We feel sad and defeated at the present moment, and our present is not perfect. If we choose to lament over it, then definitely our future too will be doomed. But the cause for our sadness in this example lies in our present.
You are right. Maybe the best is to live in a selfless present
It is good if we can be selfless. Then there will be neither happiness nor sadness. But what is the worth of life if we feel neither happy nor sad?
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Re: Do we have a Perfect Present?

Post by Sushan »

Vita wrote: July 13th, 2022, 11:58 pm
coolwhip27 wrote: July 12th, 2022, 9:08 am The author is probably not using the word present to outline a description of what’s happening in the present. The fact that we have a present moment. If one dives deep, you might find that “the present” is actually the only thing we have. Not once in our life are we actually existing in the past or the future. The past and the future are created by thought.
The word perfect, however, implies infinitely good, not just flawless. If I got rid of the past and future, I wouldn't have good or bad to compare the present to, and I could certainly find no flaw but wouldn't consider it perfect.
Quite true. We see things in comparison. There are no absolute measures in the world. We have defined the unit of measuring length in comparison to the speed of light. So, to say that our present is perfect (or better) we must had had a past. And we always hope that our future will be much more better.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Re: Do we have a Perfect Present?

Post by Sushan »

coolwhip27 wrote: July 14th, 2022, 9:31 am
Vita wrote: July 13th, 2022, 11:58 pm
coolwhip27 wrote: July 12th, 2022, 9:08 am The author is probably not using the word present to outline a description of what’s happening in the present. The fact that we have a present moment. If one dives deep, you might find that “the present” is actually the only thing we have. Not once in our life are we actually existing in the past or the future. The past and the future are created by thought.
The word perfect, however, implies infinitely good, not just flawless. If I got rid of the past and future, I wouldn't have good or bad to compare the present to, and I could certainly find no flaw but wouldn't consider it perfect.
Why do you think you can measure it? If it isn’t perfect, then you think what should be is divided between what is. When what is and what should be are the same thing, no opinion or measurement of how “good” the present is matters.
It is not about measuring. It is about getting the idea of perfection. We should have a definition to this perfection to know when we achieve that level. Atleast we need something to compare with to say that B is better than A. The only thing that we can compare our present is with our past.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Re: Do we have a Perfect Present?

Post by Sushan »

Vita wrote: July 16th, 2022, 12:21 am
coolwhip27 wrote: July 14th, 2022, 9:31 am
Vita wrote: July 13th, 2022, 11:58 pm
coolwhip27 wrote: July 12th, 2022, 9:08 am The author is probably not using the word present to outline a description of what’s happening in the present. The fact that we have a present moment. If one dives deep, you might find that “the present” is actually the only thing we have. Not once in our life are we actually existing in the past or the future. The past and the future are created by thought.
The word perfect, however, implies infinitely good, not just flawless. If I got rid of the past and future, I wouldn't have good or bad to compare the present to, and I could certainly find no flaw but wouldn't consider it perfect.
Why do you think you can measure it? If it isn’t perfect, then you think what should be is divided between what is. When what is and what should be are the same thing, no opinion or measurement of how “good” the present is matters.
Shouldn't it be good though? If it is neutral it is less than perfect because perfection has nothing above it.
Perfection too can be neutral if it is your last achievement. If you have nothing more to achieve, or nothing from prior experiences or times to compare with, what will you feel after achieving perfection other than being neutral?
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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