Exactly, whereas now with an imperfect history I can be happy , which I would consider better than just neutral . By definition there must be nothing better than perfect.Sushan wrote: ↑July 24th, 2022, 2:08 pmPerfection too can be neutral if it is your last achievement. If you have nothing more to achieve, or nothing from prior experiences or times to compare with, what will you feel after achieving perfection other than being neutral?Vita wrote: ↑July 16th, 2022, 12:21 amShouldn't it be good though? If it is neutral it is less than perfect because perfection has nothing above it.coolwhip27 wrote: ↑July 14th, 2022, 9:31 amWhy do you think you can measure it? If it isn’t perfect, then you think what should be is divided between what is. When what is and what should be are the same thing, no opinion or measurement of how “good” the present is matters.
Do we have a Perfect Present?
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Re: Do we have a Perfect Present?
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Re: Do we have a Perfect Present?
It seems that in the selfless present your question does not make sense because what is it that would be worried about "worth of life" if not the self?Sushan wrote: ↑July 24th, 2022, 2:01 pmIt is good if we can be selfless. Then there will be neither happiness nor sadness. But what is the worth of life if we feel neither happy nor sad?stevie wrote: ↑July 12th, 2022, 3:12 pmYou are right. Maybe the best is to live in a selfless presentSushan wrote: ↑July 11th, 2022, 10:24 pmLiving in the present moment is different than the present mmoment being perfect. Imagine when we fail in something. We feel sad and defeated at the present moment, and our present is not perfect. If we choose to lament over it, then definitely our future too will be doomed. But the cause for our sadness in this example lies in our present.
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Re: Do we have a Perfect Present?
So we can only have a perfect present with reference to all antecedent events. But how could it be otherwise. SInce the past has already happened and is not changeable then the perfect can only result in the present. Being literally complete
Aside from that the question is meaningless
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Re: Do we have a Perfect Present?
Yes, there can be nothing above perfect. So, as this author suggests if our present is perfect, then we will have nothing to achieve or gain. So our living will merely be boring and our future will be dull. Imperfection brings opportunities and hopes to achieve further.Vita wrote: ↑July 25th, 2022, 12:27 amExactly, whereas now with an imperfect history I can be happy , which I would consider better than just neutral . By definition there must be nothing better than perfect.Sushan wrote: ↑July 24th, 2022, 2:08 pmPerfection too can be neutral if it is your last achievement. If you have nothing more to achieve, or nothing from prior experiences or times to compare with, what will you feel after achieving perfection other than being neutral?Vita wrote: ↑July 16th, 2022, 12:21 amShouldn't it be good though? If it is neutral it is less than perfect because perfection has nothing above it.coolwhip27 wrote: ↑July 14th, 2022, 9:31 am
Why do you think you can measure it? If it isn’t perfect, then you think what should be is divided between what is. When what is and what should be are the same thing, no opinion or measurement of how “good” the present is matters.
– William James
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Re: Do we have a Perfect Present?
Being selfless does not mean remaining doing nothing. A selfless person can do many things to the others without thinking of or doing something for him/herself. There are many such people and they are happy about what they do. Happiness does not have to go hand in hand with worrying about one's own self.stevie wrote: ↑July 25th, 2022, 12:49 amIt seems that in the selfless present your question does not make sense because what is it that would be worried about "worth of life" if not the self?Sushan wrote: ↑July 24th, 2022, 2:01 pmIt is good if we can be selfless. Then there will be neither happiness nor sadness. But what is the worth of life if we feel neither happy nor sad?stevie wrote: ↑July 12th, 2022, 3:12 pmYou are right. Maybe the best is to live in a selfless presentSushan wrote: ↑July 11th, 2022, 10:24 pm
Living in the present moment is different than the present mmoment being perfect. Imagine when we fail in something. We feel sad and defeated at the present moment, and our present is not perfect. If we choose to lament over it, then definitely our future too will be doomed. But the cause for our sadness in this example lies in our present.
– William James
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Re: Do we have a Perfect Present?
What you say is grammatically correct. But perfection of one's living or one's thoughts is not a game of grammar. The question can be seen or defined in many ways, and in some ways it can be meaningless. It is up to us to consider the meaningful ones and discuss about them.Sculptor1 wrote: ↑July 25th, 2022, 7:47 am The perfect is a verb form that indicates that an action or circumstance occurred earlier than the time under consideration, often focusing attention on the resulting state rather than on the occurrence itself.
So we can only have a perfect present with reference to all antecedent events. But how could it be otherwise. SInce the past has already happened and is not changeable then the perfect can only result in the present. Being literally complete
Aside from that the question is meaningless
– William James
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Re: Do we have a Perfect Present?
I think my question has not implied that.
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Re: Do we have a Perfect Present?
Ironically, the more aware you are of the present moment, the less immersed you are. Being in the present moment can be thought of as a theoretical slice of an undefined period of a flow state. It is something to be immersed in and reflected upon later, but never grasped at the time, for the act of grasping the present moment pulls you out of flow states.
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Re: Do we have a Perfect Present?
The grammar is the only meaningful one.Sushan wrote: ↑July 26th, 2022, 10:12 pmWhat you say is grammatically correct. But perfection of one's living or one's thoughts is not a game of grammar. The question can be seen or defined in many ways, and in some ways it can be meaningless. It is up to us to consider the meaningful ones and discuss about them.Sculptor1 wrote: ↑July 25th, 2022, 7:47 am The perfect is a verb form that indicates that an action or circumstance occurred earlier than the time under consideration, often focusing attention on the resulting state rather than on the occurrence itself.
So we can only have a perfect present with reference to all antecedent events. But how could it be otherwise. SInce the past has already happened and is not changeable then the perfect can only result in the present. Being literally complete
Aside from that the question is meaningless
There is no meaningful "perfection"
What could that even look like?
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Re: Do we have a Perfect Present?
Being in the moment can never be anything more than self reflective, biased, inward looking, and insular. As soon as you really look out, you know that you are the world, as it is, is remote and ungraspable since we only have view of it through a tiny arrow slit of out personal existence.Sy Borg wrote: ↑July 27th, 2022, 3:40 am "Perfect" is a romantic term, not usually aptly associated with reality, to which words like "messy", "complex", "bizarre" and "indefinable" would seem a closer fit.
Ironically, the more aware you are of the present moment, the less immersed you are. Being in the present moment can be thought of as a theoretical slice of an undefined period of a flow state. It is something to be immersed in and reflected upon later, but never grasped at the time, for the act of grasping the present moment pulls you out of flow states.
We are not, nor ever could be qualified to see or even imagine perfection.
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Re: Do we have a Perfect Present?
One of the best qualities of human nature is our ‘critical thinking’ - the single source behind the absolute best, and worst, of this life, which comes from our 3 basic human thought processes: First, we come to assess and understand our surrounding world, then we think of how it ‘could be’, and then upon reviewing all of our ‘could be’s’, decide how it ‘should be’!
But that is all about our (imperfect/subjective) mental world, while I’m trying to get everyone to see the (objective) perfection behind this whole amazing physical world, such as our self-replicating, self-maintaining bodies with their 30 trillion cells, each containing 6ft. of unbelievably complex genetic programming! And then see the perfection of the spider crawling up your hand, with everything it needs for its own perfect life.
Now carry that Awe out to the beautiful flowers, trees, rivers and mountains, and ask yourself why our planet isn’t just barren and pockmarked like our closely neighboring moon. (Perhaps the ‘Nothingness’ up there isn’t quite as creative as the ‘Somethingness’ down here
So please stop focusing on the (subjective) imperfections, so that you can come to see more of the amazing (objective) Perfections that make up this spectacular world!
Jerry
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Re: Do we have a Perfect Present?
Jerry
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Re: Do we have a Perfect Present?
It is not an ideal world, where no one gets sick, gets old or dies, but it is a perfect world! The perfection of our mind even allows to overlay life’s perfection with our thoughts about its imperfection! Wake up - Don’t miss it!
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Re: Do we have a Perfect Present?
What do you see as the difference between existence and perfection?
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Re: Do we have a Perfect Present?
I’ll second that!
2024 Philosophy Books of the Month
2023 Philosophy Books of the Month
Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023
Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023