Seemingly God and Man are similar in ways more than just the looks!

Use this forum to discuss the July 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, The Truth Is Beyond Belief!: Some thoughts to make you think about the power of your thoughts…by Jerry Durr
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Re: Seemingly God and Man are similar in ways more than just the looks!

Post by Sy Borg »

Sushan wrote: July 25th, 2022, 10:08 pm
LuckyR wrote: July 24th, 2022, 4:03 am
Sushan wrote: July 23rd, 2022, 1:28 am
LuckyR wrote: July 6th, 2022, 3:13 am Part of the problem with defining gods is that there isn't a common word to define a being superior to humans, yet in the same basic category as humans.

As the smartest and most powerful being within their perception, humans created the concept of gods to define more powerful than humans. Later some gods graduated to omnipotence (with all of the inherent paradoxes and illogical aspects of that concept).
Humans created God. They needed some features to that God, and inevitably that God got many features of the human. Later, as you said, they wanted this God to be a superior being. So some powers were given to that Godly figure. Yet, seemingly the similarities to humans have remained.
Further proof that regardless whether gods exist or not, humans would be psychologically driven to invent them.
I agree. Some of the earlier humans who had a better IQ compared to peers invented the concept of God in order to exert either power or law and order upon their peers and inferios. But they needed some higher authority, and they created God.
The beauty of God as a means of control was that God can be watching everyone 24/7, and even read one's thoughts. It strikes me that people have long tended to enjoy that restriction, as though the mindfulness forced by constant surveillance keeps them on the righteous path and saves them from sin. Theoretically, that's fine, except that "sin" was to the Church as disloyalty is to the CCP. Human organisations form around transcendent experiences, and then seemingly work tirelessly to destroy any chance of people enjoying such experiences in pursuit of total power.
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Re: Seemingly God and Man are similar in ways more than just the looks!

Post by LuckyR »

Sushan wrote: July 25th, 2022, 10:08 pm
LuckyR wrote: July 24th, 2022, 4:03 am
Sushan wrote: July 23rd, 2022, 1:28 am
LuckyR wrote: July 6th, 2022, 3:13 am Part of the problem with defining gods is that there isn't a common word to define a being superior to humans, yet in the same basic category as humans.

As the smartest and most powerful being within their perception, humans created the concept of gods to define more powerful than humans. Later some gods graduated to omnipotence (with all of the inherent paradoxes and illogical aspects of that concept).
Humans created God. They needed some features to that God, and inevitably that God got many features of the human. Later, as you said, they wanted this God to be a superior being. So some powers were given to that Godly figure. Yet, seemingly the similarities to humans have remained.
Further proof that regardless whether gods exist or not, humans would be psychologically driven to invent them.
I agree. Some of the earlier humans who had a better IQ compared to peers invented the concept of God in order to exert either power or law and order upon their peers and inferios. But they needed some higher authority, and they created God.
Very cynical, yet completely in keeping with human nature. If you're born into a powerful or wealthy family in prehistory, you're all set. If you are physically strong, you can be a soldier. But if you aren't from a powerful family, and you're not physically strong, but you are smart how do you obtain power in a primitive society? You join the clergy, or invent one if it doesn't exist.
"As usual... it depends."
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Re: Seemingly God and Man are similar in ways more than just the looks!

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Sushan wrote: July 5th, 2022, 2:40 pm This topic is about the July 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, The Truth Is Beyond Belief!: Some thoughts to make you think about the power of your thoughts…by Jerry Durr


God and man each create something from nothing. God has created the world; man is creating his thoughts and beliefs about the world.
(Location 57 - Kindle version)

According to this author God and Man are similar in ways more than just the looks. Do you agree?
Sushan!

Along with his notion of 'creativity' there's much to unpack there. I commend you for culling-out that quote, though I have not read the book. Nonetheless the concept of creativity is very intriguing.

First no one really understands creativity other than it just 'arrives' in the mind through a revelatory process (phenomenology). One thing cognitive science does seem to agree on or at least has theory's about relate to a prerequisite of being 'immersed' in the craft or genre. Meaning, if you are a scientist/physicist, striving for novelty, can more often than not 'arrive' when being immersed in thinking or performing your craft. Working on mathematical formulas or empirical testing bears this out. Much like writing music, working on melodies and chord progressions and/or motifs often lead to a snowball effect of novelty in composing/creating an entire piece of music.

The metaphysical aspect to this mystery is also intriguing. Consider one who wonders and is curious about things (the synthetic a priori) and seeks to find answers to meaning of life questions, or otherwise the why's of existence. Often times that also leads to quality of life stuff to include ingenuity, technological advances, products and services, and so on. Our minds have the ability to create novelty that enhance (or destroy) one's quality of life within the human condition.

Then applying other metaphysical features of our existence would include the architect/engineer who creates a material object through abstract mathematics. The formulas used to power buildings with electricity, build bridges, rockets and so on, are metaphysically abstract ideas that provide for physical reality. To actualize a thought, we have these capabilities to make something from nothing. That notion of becoming over being rears its head there.

Too, the beauty of this capacity for wonder and creativeness is that often times a person outside of the genre can ask questions that inspire novelty as well. We all have this capability. For instance, we all know that children can ask the most simple of questions, yet the answers may be that which was there all along. Similarly, it was Maslow who told us: life is both a discovery and uncovery of Being. Life is indeed a dynamic sojourn waiting to be actualized.

It must be emphasized that much of this kind of stuff (quality of life) has little if any Darwinian biological survival advantages. I don't need to know music theory, mathematics, much less cognitive science theories to know haw to evade falling objects in the jungle. My emergent instincts have limitations.

Perhaps in a pragmatic sense of the creative mind, the good and the bad are logically necessary to advance many quality of life concerns thereby paving the way to such improvements. A free society that allows for 'critique ' corresponds to one's own stream of consciousness that causes ideas to become reality. Hence, becoming over being is indeed that discovery and uncovery of same. Our volition is truly a gift of life. Existentially, we can choose life or death.

In summary, our metaphysical Will to be, seems to have endless possibility. I was a poet and didn't know it :lol:
“Whenever two people meet, there are really six people present. There is each man as he sees himself, each man as the other person sees him, and each man as he really is.”
― William James
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Re: Seemingly God and Man are similar in ways more than just the looks!

Post by JDBowden »

I read once a long time ago that "God" was so called invented during the agricultural revolution away from a hunter-gatherer society.
They did this by planting crops and with anticipation and "hope" that rain would come for the plants etc. That "hope" turned to divinity when the rains did come. Along those lines...
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Re: Seemingly God and Man are similar in ways more than just the looks!

Post by Sushan »

Sy Borg wrote: July 26th, 2022, 2:39 am
Sushan wrote: July 25th, 2022, 10:08 pm
LuckyR wrote: July 24th, 2022, 4:03 am
Sushan wrote: July 23rd, 2022, 1:28 am

Humans created God. They needed some features to that God, and inevitably that God got many features of the human. Later, as you said, they wanted this God to be a superior being. So some powers were given to that Godly figure. Yet, seemingly the similarities to humans have remained.
Further proof that regardless whether gods exist or not, humans would be psychologically driven to invent them.
I agree. Some of the earlier humans who had a better IQ compared to peers invented the concept of God in order to exert either power or law and order upon their peers and inferios. But they needed some higher authority, and they created God.
The beauty of God as a means of control was that God can be watching everyone 24/7, and even read one's thoughts. It strikes me that people have long tended to enjoy that restriction, as though the mindfulness forced by constant surveillance keeps them on the righteous path and saves them from sin. Theoretically, that's fine, except that "sin" was to the Church as disloyalty is to the CCP. Human organisations form around transcendent experiences, and then seemingly work tirelessly to destroy any chance of people enjoying such experiences in pursuit of total power.
It is a nice way to put the concept of a God. Yes, people have restricted their selves from doing socially unacceptable things. When laws and agreements have not been enough the concept of sin has originated, and the concept of a 24/7 watchman (maybe the God) has been created. It is interesting to think exactly when humans wanted this self restriction and who invented such a brilliant idea called sin, as we see that many of us fear to do certain things in this so called developed world today just because of we are afraid of sinning and its consequences.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Re: Seemingly God and Man are similar in ways more than just the looks!

Post by Sushan »

LuckyR wrote: July 26th, 2022, 3:02 am
Sushan wrote: July 25th, 2022, 10:08 pm
LuckyR wrote: July 24th, 2022, 4:03 am
Sushan wrote: July 23rd, 2022, 1:28 am

Humans created God. They needed some features to that God, and inevitably that God got many features of the human. Later, as you said, they wanted this God to be a superior being. So some powers were given to that Godly figure. Yet, seemingly the similarities to humans have remained.
Further proof that regardless whether gods exist or not, humans would be psychologically driven to invent them.
I agree. Some of the earlier humans who had a better IQ compared to peers invented the concept of God in order to exert either power or law and order upon their peers and inferios. But they needed some higher authority, and they created God.
Very cynical, yet completely in keeping with human nature. If you're born into a powerful or wealthy family in prehistory, you're all set. If you are physically strong, you can be a soldier. But if you aren't from a powerful family, and you're not physically strong, but you are smart how do you obtain power in a primitive society? You join the clergy, or invent one if it doesn't exist.
Very true. The law in the forest has always been 'the stronger one will win'. When it came to human society money too had a important place in power. As you correctly said, the remainder either chose to be ruled, or to join the clergy. And some of the smart guys invented their own religions. We see that throughout the history the clergy and the kings have been in similar levels, and often the both tried to suppress the other party. So the clergy too had to maintain some ownership over the society, and the concept of 'ability to communicate with God' was their key to power.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Re: Seemingly God and Man are similar in ways more than just the looks!

Post by Sushan »

JDBowden wrote: July 26th, 2022, 11:00 am I read once a long time ago that "God" was so called invented during the agricultural revolution away from a hunter-gatherer society.
They did this by planting crops and with anticipation and "hope" that rain would come for the plants etc. That "hope" turned to divinity when the rains did come. Along those lines...
With the lack of knowledge and technology the ancient people were amazed by the natural phenomena like raining, lightning, etc. When they thought upon such incidents they got the idea that there has to be someone who is controlling such things. So, as you said, they got the idea of divinity. And throughout generations the idea evolved and many religions occurred. We see how these religions have retained features that are unique to their originated lands and the initial human races who invented those religions.
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Re: Seemingly God and Man are similar in ways more than just the looks!

Post by Sy Borg »

Sushan wrote: July 26th, 2022, 10:20 pm
Sy Borg wrote: July 26th, 2022, 2:39 am
Sushan wrote: July 25th, 2022, 10:08 pm
LuckyR wrote: July 24th, 2022, 4:03 am

Further proof that regardless whether gods exist or not, humans would be psychologically driven to invent them.
I agree. Some of the earlier humans who had a better IQ compared to peers invented the concept of God in order to exert either power or law and order upon their peers and inferios. But they needed some higher authority, and they created God.
The beauty of God as a means of control was that God can be watching everyone 24/7, and even read one's thoughts. It strikes me that people have long tended to enjoy that restriction, as though the mindfulness forced by constant surveillance keeps them on the righteous path and saves them from sin. Theoretically, that's fine, except that "sin" was to the Church as disloyalty is to the CCP. Human organisations form around transcendent experiences, and then seemingly work tirelessly to destroy any chance of people enjoying such experiences in pursuit of total power.
It is a nice way to put the concept of a God. Yes, people have restricted their selves from doing socially unacceptable things. When laws and agreements have not been enough the concept of sin has originated, and the concept of a 24/7 watchman (maybe the God) has been created. It is interesting to think exactly when humans wanted this self restriction and who invented such a brilliant idea called sin, as we see that many of us fear to do certain things in this so called developed world today just because of we are afraid of sinning and its consequences.
Self control is not always easy, and people use all sorts of life hacks to keep them on a life path that works for them. For many, that means surrendering to a higher power whose judgement they trust, be that a deity, a leader, a group, a body of knowledge, ideology or, of course, philosophy. Toadying to the powerful is a familiar dynamic for all of us, being the adult equivalent of parental control.

Certainly, groups need rules to function, but crimes were historically considered to be "sins", as there was either no distinction between church and state, or the leader had been deified. It depends on whom one finds credible. I personally "submit" largely to the scientific method. I have much respect for those who have, through much passion, work and perceptiveness managed to uncover so many secrets of nature. However, science is far from godlike, with its models more holey than Swiss cheese and some practitioners will hold stupid opinions, such as "philosophy is dead".
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Re: Seemingly God and Man are similar in ways more than just the looks!

Post by LuckyR »

Sushan wrote: July 26th, 2022, 10:25 pm
LuckyR wrote: July 26th, 2022, 3:02 am
Sushan wrote: July 25th, 2022, 10:08 pm
LuckyR wrote: July 24th, 2022, 4:03 am

Further proof that regardless whether gods exist or not, humans would be psychologically driven to invent them.
I agree. Some of the earlier humans who had a better IQ compared to peers invented the concept of God in order to exert either power or law and order upon their peers and inferios. But they needed some higher authority, and they created God.
Very cynical, yet completely in keeping with human nature. If you're born into a powerful or wealthy family in prehistory, you're all set. If you are physically strong, you can be a soldier. But if you aren't from a powerful family, and you're not physically strong, but you are smart how do you obtain power in a primitive society? You join the clergy, or invent one if it doesn't exist.
Very true. The law in the forest has always been 'the stronger one will win'. When it came to human society money too had a important place in power. As you correctly said, the remainder either chose to be ruled, or to join the clergy. And some of the smart guys invented their own religions. We see that throughout the history the clergy and the kings have been in similar levels, and often the both tried to suppress the other party. So the clergy too had to maintain some ownership over the society, and the concept of 'ability to communicate with God' was their key to power.
The proof of concept is that it happens in Modern times in certain situations.
"As usual... it depends."
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Re: Seemingly God and Man are similar in ways more than just the looks!

Post by Sushan »

3017Metaphysician wrote: July 26th, 2022, 9:28 am
Sushan wrote: July 5th, 2022, 2:40 pm This topic is about the July 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, The Truth Is Beyond Belief!: Some thoughts to make you think about the power of your thoughts…by Jerry Durr


God and man each create something from nothing. God has created the world; man is creating his thoughts and beliefs about the world.
(Location 57 - Kindle version)

According to this author God and Man are similar in ways more than just the looks. Do you agree?
Sushan!

Along with his notion of 'creativity' there's much to unpack there. I commend you for culling-out that quote, though I have not read the book. Nonetheless the concept of creativity is very intriguing.

First no one really understands creativity other than it just 'arrives' in the mind through a revelatory process (phenomenology). One thing cognitive science does seem to agree on or at least has theory's about relate to a prerequisite of being 'immersed' in the craft or genre. Meaning, if you are a scientist/physicist, striving for novelty, can more often than not 'arrive' when being immersed in thinking or performing your craft. Working on mathematical formulas or empirical testing bears this out. Much like writing music, working on melodies and chord progressions and/or motifs often lead to a snowball effect of novelty in composing/creating an entire piece of music.

The metaphysical aspect to this mystery is also intriguing. Consider one who wonders and is curious about things (the synthetic a priori) and seeks to find answers to meaning of life questions, or otherwise the why's of existence. Often times that also leads to quality of life stuff to include ingenuity, technological advances, products and services, and so on. Our minds have the ability to create novelty that enhance (or destroy) one's quality of life within the human condition.

Then applying other metaphysical features of our existence would include the architect/engineer who creates a material object through abstract mathematics. The formulas used to power buildings with electricity, build bridges, rockets and so on, are metaphysically abstract ideas that provide for physical reality. To actualize a thought, we have these capabilities to make something from nothing. That notion of becoming over being rears its head there.

Too, the beauty of this capacity for wonder and creativeness is that often times a person outside of the genre can ask questions that inspire novelty as well. We all have this capability. For instance, we all know that children can ask the most simple of questions, yet the answers may be that which was there all along. Similarly, it was Maslow who told us: life is both a discovery and uncovery of Being. Life is indeed a dynamic sojourn waiting to be actualized.

It must be emphasized that much of this kind of stuff (quality of life) has little if any Darwinian biological survival advantages. I don't need to know music theory, mathematics, much less cognitive science theories to know haw to evade falling objects in the jungle. My emergent instincts have limitations.

Perhaps in a pragmatic sense of the creative mind, the good and the bad are logically necessary to advance many quality of life concerns thereby paving the way to such improvements. A free society that allows for 'critique ' corresponds to one's own stream of consciousness that causes ideas to become reality. Hence, becoming over being is indeed that discovery and uncovery of same. Our volition is truly a gift of life. Existentially, we can choose life or death.

In summary, our metaphysical Will to be, seems to have endless possibility. I was a poet and didn't know it :lol:
Thank you for the in detail reply. I agree with you. Socrates described that non-living objects like rocks, living objects like trees, then the living and moving things with instincts like animals have limitations to their growth. But for humans (and he included Gods as well) do not have a limitation to their growth since they have the ability to think, which many other species do not possess, as far as we know. So we are capable of developing things that are already present, and creating totally new things from nothing.

But I am a believer in Darvin's theories, and I think at some point humans too needed natural selection and evolving of instincts to survive before ddeveloping the ability to think and the era of culture and social norms.
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Re: Seemingly God and Man are similar in ways more than just the looks!

Post by Sushan »

Sy Borg wrote: July 26th, 2022, 10:37 pm
Sushan wrote: July 26th, 2022, 10:20 pm
Sy Borg wrote: July 26th, 2022, 2:39 am
Sushan wrote: July 25th, 2022, 10:08 pm

I agree. Some of the earlier humans who had a better IQ compared to peers invented the concept of God in order to exert either power or law and order upon their peers and inferios. But they needed some higher authority, and they created God.
The beauty of God as a means of control was that God can be watching everyone 24/7, and even read one's thoughts. It strikes me that people have long tended to enjoy that restriction, as though the mindfulness forced by constant surveillance keeps them on the righteous path and saves them from sin. Theoretically, that's fine, except that "sin" was to the Church as disloyalty is to the CCP. Human organisations form around transcendent experiences, and then seemingly work tirelessly to destroy any chance of people enjoying such experiences in pursuit of total power.
It is a nice way to put the concept of a God. Yes, people have restricted their selves from doing socially unacceptable things. When laws and agreements have not been enough the concept of sin has originated, and the concept of a 24/7 watchman (maybe the God) has been created. It is interesting to think exactly when humans wanted this self restriction and who invented such a brilliant idea called sin, as we see that many of us fear to do certain things in this so called developed world today just because of we are afraid of sinning and its consequences.
Self control is not always easy, and people use all sorts of life hacks to keep them on a life path that works for them. For many, that means surrendering to a higher power whose judgement they trust, be that a deity, a leader, a group, a body of knowledge, ideology or, of course, philosophy. Toadying to the powerful is a familiar dynamic for all of us, being the adult equivalent of parental control.

Certainly, groups need rules to function, but crimes were historically considered to be "sins", as there was either no distinction between church and state, or the leader had been deified. It depends on whom one finds credible. I personally "submit" largely to the scientific method. I have much respect for those who have, through much passion, work and perceptiveness managed to uncover so many secrets of nature. However, science is far from godlike, with its models more holey than Swiss cheese and some practitioners will hold stupid opinions, such as "philosophy is dead".
Science is not a complete subject, and I think it will never be completed. So definitely it will have holes. And in addition, even the scientists hold onto their personal opinions making scientific agreements and decisions quite hard.

Yes, self-control is not an easy thing with all the greedy and selfish thoughts that we get daily. So humans have created deities. But humans have grown their greed towards these godly concepts and that is why we see some sort of clergymen in each and every culture from the ancient times. They wanted some claim towards their gods, and they created the illusion of the ability to communicate with the god. At the end of the day, human mind is a marvellous thing 😊
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Re: Seemingly God and Man are similar in ways more than just the looks!

Post by Sy Borg »

Sushan wrote: July 30th, 2022, 1:37 pm
Sy Borg wrote: July 26th, 2022, 10:37 pm
Sushan wrote: July 26th, 2022, 10:20 pm
Sy Borg wrote: July 26th, 2022, 2:39 am

The beauty of God as a means of control was that God can be watching everyone 24/7, and even read one's thoughts. It strikes me that people have long tended to enjoy that restriction, as though the mindfulness forced by constant surveillance keeps them on the righteous path and saves them from sin. Theoretically, that's fine, except that "sin" was to the Church as disloyalty is to the CCP. Human organisations form around transcendent experiences, and then seemingly work tirelessly to destroy any chance of people enjoying such experiences in pursuit of total power.
It is a nice way to put the concept of a God. Yes, people have restricted their selves from doing socially unacceptable things. When laws and agreements have not been enough the concept of sin has originated, and the concept of a 24/7 watchman (maybe the God) has been created. It is interesting to think exactly when humans wanted this self restriction and who invented such a brilliant idea called sin, as we see that many of us fear to do certain things in this so called developed world today just because of we are afraid of sinning and its consequences.
Self control is not always easy, and people use all sorts of life hacks to keep them on a life path that works for them. For many, that means surrendering to a higher power whose judgement they trust, be that a deity, a leader, a group, a body of knowledge, ideology or, of course, philosophy. Toadying to the powerful is a familiar dynamic for all of us, being the adult equivalent of parental control.

Certainly, groups need rules to function, but crimes were historically considered to be "sins", as there was either no distinction between church and state, or the leader had been deified. It depends on whom one finds credible. I personally "submit" largely to the scientific method. I have much respect for those who have, through much passion, work and perceptiveness managed to uncover so many secrets of nature. However, science is far from godlike, with its models more holey than Swiss cheese and some practitioners will hold stupid opinions, such as "philosophy is dead".
Science is not a complete subject, and I think it will never be completed. So definitely it will have holes. And in addition, even the scientists hold onto their personal opinions making scientific agreements and decisions quite hard.

Yes, self-control is not an easy thing with all the greedy and selfish thoughts that we get daily. So humans have created deities. But humans have grown their greed towards these godly concepts and that is why we see some sort of clergymen in each and every culture from the ancient times. They wanted some claim towards their gods, and they created the illusion of the ability to communicate with the god. At the end of the day, human mind is a marvellous thing 😊
If, by "marvellous", you mean the human mind is overly convoluted, bringing a marked tendency towards becoming demented, then I agree :)

Most researchers appear to be passionate about the forensic aspect of their work and they revel in the fact that breakthroughs tend to just reveal more layers of mysteries to unravel. As a side note, it's actually physically impossible to understand everything in the universe because anything capable of processing so much information would be so immense that it would collapse in on itself and become a planet, star or black hole :)

Still, I marvel at the extent of the bodies of knowledge accumulated by humanity over the past few thousand years. Information passed down fro one generation to the next, being refined and extended most times, with occasional information destruction, eg. book burning and censorship. Consider the knowhow needed to create the mirrors for the James Webb telescope:
Once in space, getting these mirrors to focus correctly on faraway galaxies is another challenge. Actuators, or tiny mechanical motors, provide the answer to achieving a single perfect focus. The primary mirror segments and secondary mirror are moved by six actuators that are attached to the back of each mirror piece. The primary mirror segments also have an additional actuator at its center that adjusts its curvature. The telescope's tertiary mirror remains stationary.

Lee Feinberg, Webb Optical Telescope Element Manager at NASA Goddard explains, "Aligning the primary mirror segments as though they are a single large mirror means each mirror is aligned to 1/10,000th the thickness of a human hair. What's even more amazing is that the engineers and scientists working on the Webb telescope literally had to invent how to do this."
Geniuses handing down their knowledge to other geniuses for further augmentation and refinement.
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Re: Seemingly God and Man are similar in ways more than just the looks!

Post by 3017Metaphysician »

Sushan wrote: July 29th, 2022, 10:05 pm
3017Metaphysician wrote: July 26th, 2022, 9:28 am
Sushan wrote: July 5th, 2022, 2:40 pm This topic is about the July 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, The Truth Is Beyond Belief!: Some thoughts to make you think about the power of your thoughts…by Jerry Durr


God and man each create something from nothing. God has created the world; man is creating his thoughts and beliefs about the world.
(Location 57 - Kindle version)

According to this author God and Man are similar in ways more than just the looks. Do you agree?
Sushan!

Along with his notion of 'creativity' there's much to unpack there. I commend you for culling-out that quote, though I have not read the book. Nonetheless the concept of creativity is very intriguing.

First no one really understands creativity other than it just 'arrives' in the mind through a revelatory process (phenomenology). One thing cognitive science does seem to agree on or at least has theory's about relate to a prerequisite of being 'immersed' in the craft or genre. Meaning, if you are a scientist/physicist, striving for novelty, can more often than not 'arrive' when being immersed in thinking or performing your craft. Working on mathematical formulas or empirical testing bears this out. Much like writing music, working on melodies and chord progressions and/or motifs often lead to a snowball effect of novelty in composing/creating an entire piece of music.

The metaphysical aspect to this mystery is also intriguing. Consider one who wonders and is curious about things (the synthetic a priori) and seeks to find answers to meaning of life questions, or otherwise the why's of existence. Often times that also leads to quality of life stuff to include ingenuity, technological advances, products and services, and so on. Our minds have the ability to create novelty that enhance (or destroy) one's quality of life within the human condition.

Then applying other metaphysical features of our existence would include the architect/engineer who creates a material object through abstract mathematics. The formulas used to power buildings with electricity, build bridges, rockets and so on, are metaphysically abstract ideas that provide for physical reality. To actualize a thought, we have these capabilities to make something from nothing. That notion of becoming over being rears its head there.

Too, the beauty of this capacity for wonder and creativeness is that often times a person outside of the genre can ask questions that inspire novelty as well. We all have this capability. For instance, we all know that children can ask the most simple of questions, yet the answers may be that which was there all along. Similarly, it was Maslow who told us: life is both a discovery and uncovery of Being. Life is indeed a dynamic sojourn waiting to be actualized.

It must be emphasized that much of this kind of stuff (quality of life) has little if any Darwinian biological survival advantages. I don't need to know music theory, mathematics, much less cognitive science theories to know haw to evade falling objects in the jungle. My emergent instincts have limitations.

Perhaps in a pragmatic sense of the creative mind, the good and the bad are logically necessary to advance many quality of life concerns thereby paving the way to such improvements. A free society that allows for 'critique ' corresponds to one's own stream of consciousness that causes ideas to become reality. Hence, becoming over being is indeed that discovery and uncovery of same. Our volition is truly a gift of life. Existentially, we can choose life or death.

In summary, our metaphysical Will to be, seems to have endless possibility. I was a poet and didn't know it :lol:
Thank you for the in detail reply. I agree with you. Socrates described that non-living objects like rocks, living objects like trees, then the living and moving things with instincts like animals have limitations to their growth. But for humans (and he included Gods as well) do not have a limitation to their growth since they have the ability to think, which many other species do not possess, as far as we know. So we are capable of developing things that are already present, and creating totally new things from nothing.

But I am a believer in Darvin's theories, and I think at some point humans too needed natural selection and evolving of instincts to survive before ddeveloping the ability to think and the era of culture and social norms.
Indeed! Much like the concept of ethics (the search for happiness, intentionality, etc.) those qualities (among others) of self-awareness haven't evolved since Plato and beyond... .
“Whenever two people meet, there are really six people present. There is each man as he sees himself, each man as the other person sees him, and each man as he really is.”
― William James
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