Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Philosophy Club

[MAYA EL]

Well I would call them “in the moment” and “not in the moment” because that it is what the individual experiences them as.

I beg to disagree with your explanation, “wants” and “oughts” reside within the 2 “waking”consciousness states that the “I am” either does or doesn’t exercise control over.

I would not see 'in the moment' and 'not in the moment' as discrete states but poles of a continuum.

Whatever the technicalities, it appears that you are linking the "I am" with the present moment. Being. That would make the "I am" extremely ephemeral and changeable, just as we cannot 'swim the same river twice'.

I am not linking the “I am” with the present moment or the out of the moment, no.The “I am” experiences both the “in the in the moment” and “out of the moment states”.The “l am” toggles constantly between the two.These are the 2 waking consciousness states.The “I am” is neither of these consciousness states.

The “I am” either exercises or does not exercise CONTROL over these 2 consciousness states.The “I am” is not changeable.The consciousness state it experiences is changeable.

The “I am” is separate from the 2 consciousness states.

You clearly have a different angle to me. Some questions about your ideas:

What do you think happens to the "I am" when you sleep, and why does it return as usual when you are awake?

Do all humans have an "I am"? Is it the same "I am" in everyone or discrete "I ams"?

Do all organisms have an "I am"? If some don't, which?

Does the "I am" change during the course of one's life? If so, how? If not, why?

Does the "I am" survive death? If so, how does it do this?

Semantics can be a booger bear

[Joshua10]

It seems to me that you are attributing consciousness to "I am", and everything else is processing. To me, that just shifts the problem back one level. It's like the idea that God made the universe, in which case one may ask, "Who made God?". The answer is always along the lines of, "Nothing did. God was always there". In which case, why not figure that the universe has always been here? Why add the extra layer?

I am not attributing consciousness to the “I am”, no.Maybe the way I have commented would make it seem that way.

The “I am” which I would suggest is completely separate to consciousness has the ability to process and take active control of which of the consciousness states it experiences.If it doesn’t take control then I would suggest that this is because there is an element to the “I am” which is UNAWARE.If you revert back to my previous comments I suggested that there were 2 parts to the “ I am” as well which also need to be untangled.

If this second part of the “I am” is UNAWARE that it needs to take control of the consciousness states then it won’t and will just “toggle” between the 2 consciousness states in unawareness.

[Joshua10]

I would suggest that as there is a controlling element to consciousness then the controlling element cannot be consciousness.

Why not? If "there is a controlling element to consciousness", i.e. consciousness has the ability to exert control, why can it not simply employ that ability? In your terms, the controlling element is not consciousness itself, but this ability-to-control is a part or attribute of consciousness, no?

There is a separate element to consciousness which I would suggest is the “I am”

So the "I am" is an "element" of consciousness, a part of consciousness...

I would suggest that the controlling elements interaction with thought types which is associated with engagement or non engagement directly affects the consciousness state that the “l am” experiences.

...but the "I am" "experiences" conscious states?

The main suggestion being made here is that the “I am” is therefore not consciousness or thoughts.

Your main suggestion appears to be that the "I am" is part of consciousness, but not part of consciousness; that consciousness is part of the "I am", but also not part of the "I am". Your thoughts do not seem to include a means to see the relationships between the "I am", consciousness, conscious states, and thoughts. How do you see those things as being related/connected?

I would suggest that there is a part of the 2 part “I am” which,if AWARE can,learn to control the consciousness states it experiences.The 2 part “I am” needs to be untangled.

I would suggest that the “I am” and the consciousness states are all embroiled together but are separate elements.Thoughts are completely separate to the “I am” and the 2 “waking” consciousness states as well.

I would suggest that the “I am” generates outward thoughts “in the moment” and engages with inward thoughts and thus experiences the “out of the moment” consciousness state as a result.

[Joshua10]

The brain works due to balanced vibrating electromagnetic forces.The fact is that the only way to BALANCE these forces of nature is by the formula +/-=+/-.

You simply cannot balance these electromagnetic forces within the brain with the formulas +=- and -=+

If you care anything about truth and your own mental health….then “take heed”.

[Joshua10]

Out of this balanced vibratory formula which has "TOGGLING" + and - on both sides of the fence you get the 4 off FULL LOGIC electromagnetic force integrations -/-....-/+....+/-....+/+

[Joshua10]

correction......interactions -/-......-/+....+/-.....+/+

[Joshua10]

You cannot produce the binary (software) full logic that is required for brain processing unless you have vibratory balanced + and - electromagnetic forces.

As I keep saying, the symmetrical formula for the universe is +/-=+/-

It is not +=- and -=+

[Sondang Hotmauli]

Finding a balance between subjective beliefs and objective reality is essential. While suppressing our minds may seem like a solution to avoid arguments, it hinders progress. Open-mindedness, critical thinking, and respectful dialogue are key. Acknowledging the subjective nature of our beliefs and embracing diverse perspectives allows for constructive discussions that promote unity. Silencing our minds is not the answer; empathy, respect, and active listening are important. By striking a balance between independent thinking and open-mindedness, we can navigate disagreements while appreciating diverse viewpoints. Engaging in thoughtful discourse allows for harmonious coexistence and collective growth. Ultimately, unity is fostered when we find a middle ground, nurturing both independent thinking and respect for diverse perspectives. By doing so, we create an environment that encourages understanding and expands our collective knowledge.

[LuckyR]

Finding a balance between subjective beliefs and objective reality is essential. While suppressing our minds may seem like a solution to avoid arguments, it hinders progress. Open-mindedness, critical thinking, and respectful dialogue are key. Acknowledging the subjective nature of our beliefs and embracing diverse perspectives allows for constructive discussions that promote unity. Silencing our minds is not the answer; empathy, respect, and active listening are important. By striking a balance between independent thinking and open-mindedness, we can navigate disagreements while appreciating diverse viewpoints. Engaging in thoughtful discourse allows for harmonious coexistence and collective growth. Ultimately, unity is fostered when we find a middle ground, nurturing both independent thinking and respect for diverse perspectives. By doing so, we create an environment that encourages understanding and expands our collective knowledge.

Very true... in optimal conditions. However, there are numerous close-minded individuals and groups who know all of the answers and who view "discussion" as a lecture opportunity where explaining to others just exactly how things work is the goal.

[Joshua10]

There is the issue of having to balance consciousness in response to the original statement.

[Joshua10]

INWARD only meditation is just that. INWARD!!!!!

The individual decides to go INWARD to carryout INWARD only reasoning.

If you can go INWARD, you can then decide to go back OUTWARD again.

The problem with INWARD only meditative reasoning is that the individual becomes the Observer and the Observed within an INWARD ONLY consciousness state. Remember, an INWARD ONLY state !!!! and NOT an OUTWARD only state!!!

This INWARD only meditative reasoning practice is dualistic because it involves an Observer /Observed scenario.

There is no truth to be gained from this type of INWARD ONLY meditative practice simply because it is INWARD only as far as consciousness is concerned.

Science knows nothing about how consciousness works in the overall system.

If you are in this INWARD only consciousness state exercising the HALF logic reasoning of +=- and -=+ (which is a pure guess) then you will inevitably be persuaded that you don't actually exist because it is assumed that + and - cancel out.

However,+=+ and -=- is the other half logic possibility that can't be ignored I'm afraid and so these logics also need to be considered within this INWARD only dualistic reasoning practice because WE KNOW!!!! it is IMPOSSIBLE to cancel out + and - electromagnetic forces in nature.

You can only balance these electromagnetic forces by the formula +/-=+/- which is the true formula for nature.

Clearly, individuals would know this if they took the OUTWARD consciousness state into account during their meditative reasonings.

BUT THEY DON'T.

They don't of course because they DON'T understand consciousness

If you understood consciousness then you wouldn't be adopting PURELY the a +=- and -=+ formulas in your meditative reasonings because these statements are NOT TRUE when it comes to the 2 equal but opposite electromagnetic forces in nature.

You would be adopting the correct balanced formula +/-=+/- because this formula is the ONLY way you can balance these forces of nature.

The truth is that scientists DON'T understand science because they don't understand consciousness. If they understood consciousness then they would understand science.

Mindfulness is about being AWARE that being in the moment is precisely not the place to be. If you are not in the moment then you are clearly somewhere else. If you are in the moment then you are clearly not in the place that is not in the moment. It is a fact that every individual “Toggles” backwards and forwards between these two + and - states of consciousness. It is not about residing in one or the other. It is about balancing these consciousness states because we are not a consciousness experience just as we are not a thought either.

The IN and OUT of the moment consciousness states are merely experiential states.

Don't associated yourself with these 2 states therefore. Rather, be AWARE that you constantly "TOGGLE" backwards and forwards between these two states all the time whether you are AWARE of it or not.

It is impossible to cancel these 2 states out.

Many individuals believe that the place to be is the IN the moment state which is incorrect. As you cannot cancel these 2 states of consciousness, all you can do is BALANCE them. We have the science to PROVE it.

AWARENESS sits above CONSCIOUSNESS!!!!!!!!!! and has greater authority than it.

Remember also that science is SYMMETRICAL!!!!!!

So the IN and OUT of the moment consciousness states are both on the LEFT & the RIGHT giving a balanced consciousness state formula +/-=+/-

This is the only way you can balance the electromagnetic forces in nature which are causing these "TOGGLING" consciousness state experiences within the brain.

[Mounce574]

with no mind, no thoughts, no issues - then that means you are a single cell organism.
Seriously, this seems like a way to ignore what is actually happening. Life continues to exist and progress around you no matter how much you try to avoid dealing with it. By doing nothing, you are making a choice to become a victim by your lack of responding to life.

[Joshua10]

with no mind, no thoughts, no issues - then that means you are a single cell organism.
Seriously, this seems like a way to ignore what is actually happening. Life continues to exist and progress around you no matter how much you try to avoid dealing with it. By doing nothing, you are making a choice to become a victim by your lack of responding to life.

Which pretty much sums up why there are so many problems around the world with mental health now.Doing nothing at all doesn’t resolve that.That is delusional.You need to be able to operate the body, including the brain/mind interface in manual.You have to learn to take control rather than being controlled by autopilot all the time.Autopilot continues to function whether you can be bothered to contribute or not.

Sadly,many don’t because they simply don’t know how to.

[Joshua10]

Autopilot mode operation includes being switched to manual constantly you know. That is what Autopilot does when it is unable to resolve an issue. The problem is that most individuals are totally unaware that this is what is happening so are merely the slaves of the automated process.

Autopilot works perfectly ok without you and will use you totally when it wants to.

Sorry but I have a picture of a face with 2 half shut glazed eyes staring into space, the individuals mouth being half open. You know the zombie look.

I think that is what you are describing is the answer. Surely not!!!

Take control for goodness sake.

[Moreno]

Thinking about this, I got the idea that there will be no more arguments if we do not let our minds to act on their own. What do you say?

No Mind --> No Thoughts --> No Issues : Do you agree?

No life-->No Issues...I guess as an argument for suicide? Anyway, it's shorter than the title of the thread.

You haven't said this is our goal or should be our goal - to be free of issues - but yes, if we aren't experiencing - have no minds - then, yes, we'd wouldn't have issues. Or if by 'mind' you mean that portion of us that thinks, then we'd probably have less issues if we didn't/couldn't think. So, for those who have as their only, and without-proviso, goal, having no mind might be a good option. I haven't met one of these people.