Everything follows the clock. Do dreams act differently?

Use this forum to discuss the August 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, Living in Color: A Love Story, In Sickness and in Health by Mike Murphy
Post Reply
User avatar
Sushan
Book of the Month Discussion Leader
Posts: 1060
Joined: February 19th, 2021, 8:12 pm
Contact:

Everything follows the clock. Do dreams act differently?

Post by Sushan »

This topic is about the August 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, Living in Color: A Love Story, In Sickness and in Health by Mike Murphy



There is a time factor in any area that we cross in our lives. People have many dreams and plans, but along with many other factors time is a crucial determinator when it comes to fulfill them. But this author thinks otherwise.
Dreams don’t follow the clock, they follow the heart
(Location 332 - Kindle version)

What do you think about this idea? Can we even bend time if we follow our hearts, given that the heart is set in the correct path?
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
stevie
Posts: 664
Joined: July 19th, 2021, 11:08 am

Re: Everything follows the clock. Do dreams act differently?

Post by stevie »

Sushan wrote: August 5th, 2022, 12:48 pm People have many dreams and plans, but along with many other factors time is a crucial determinator when it comes to fulfill them. But this author thinks otherwise.
Dreams don’t follow the clock, they follow the heart
(Location 332 - Kindle version)

What do you think about this idea? Can we even bend time if we follow our hearts, given that the heart is set in the correct path?
I've not read more of the book than your quote. The quote doesn't seem to contradict what you say: the thesis "Dreams don’t follow the clock, they follow the heart" appears to be compatible with the thesis that "time is a crucial determinator when it comes to fulfill" those dreams.
mankind ... must act and reason and believe; though they are not able, by their most diligent enquiry, to satisfy themselves concerning the foundation of these operations, or to remove the objections, which may be raised against them [Hume]
User avatar
JackDaydream
Posts: 1852
Joined: July 25th, 2021, 5:16 pm

Re: Everything follows the clock. Do dreams act differently?

Post by JackDaydream »

Sushan wrote: August 5th, 2022, 12:48 pm This topic is about the August 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, Living in Color: A Love Story, In Sickness and in Health by Mike Murphy



There is a time factor in any area that we cross in our lives. People have many dreams and plans, but along with many other factors time is a crucial determinator when it comes to fulfill them. But this author thinks otherwise.
Dreams don’t follow the clock, they follow the heart
(Location 332 - Kindle version)

What do you think about this idea? Can we even bend time if we follow our hearts, given that the heart is set in the correct path?
It may be that dreams step outside of the linear dimensions of time. This may be different to the everyday sentience of human experiences, connecting to other dimensions, including the nature of eternity. This may be a little different from the way in which physical causation is experienced, especially in relation to the 3D nature of reality in which most experiences are usually perceived,Within 'dream reality' there is a weaving in and out of the usual framework of consciousness, including going beyond the scope of clockwork time, into a wider perspective of eternity as a source and point of reference for understanding the larger picture and perspective of experience.
stevie
Posts: 664
Joined: July 19th, 2021, 11:08 am

Re: Everything follows the clock. Do dreams act differently?

Post by stevie »

JackDaydream wrote: August 5th, 2022, 3:47 pm It may be that .... This may be...This may be a little different from ...
You know what all your "may be[s]" may be?
mankind ... must act and reason and believe; though they are not able, by their most diligent enquiry, to satisfy themselves concerning the foundation of these operations, or to remove the objections, which may be raised against them [Hume]
User avatar
JackDaydream
Posts: 1852
Joined: July 25th, 2021, 5:16 pm

Re: Everything follows the clock. Do dreams act differently?

Post by JackDaydream »

stevie wrote: August 5th, 2022, 4:35 pm
JackDaydream wrote: August 5th, 2022, 3:47 pm It may be that .... This may be...This may be a little different from ...
You know what all your "may be[s]" may be?
My thinking seems to involve a lot of may be's, bound up with a lot uncertainty. Perhaps, I should adopt 'May Be' as a prefix to Daydream, in order to convey more fluidity to my Daydream self. If anything, dreams are about the may be's in the surreal imagination and the fluidity connected to the inbetweeness of the real and unreal, outside of space and time.
Gee
Posts: 555
Joined: December 28th, 2012, 2:41 am
Location: Michigan, US

Re: Everything follows the clock. Do dreams act differently?

Post by Gee »

Jack,

Actually, you are correct. Dreams do not follow the clock because they source from the unconscious aspect of mind, some parts of which do not acknowledge time. Emotion also works through the unconscious, so it is reasonable to state that dreams follow the heart and not the clock.

You can look up Blanco's work where he found that there is a logic that can be found in the unconscious as long as one dismisses time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignacio_Matte_Blanco

Gee
User avatar
Sushan
Book of the Month Discussion Leader
Posts: 1060
Joined: February 19th, 2021, 8:12 pm
Contact:

Re: Everything follows the clock. Do dreams act differently?

Post by Sushan »

stevie wrote: August 5th, 2022, 1:25 pm
Sushan wrote: August 5th, 2022, 12:48 pm People have many dreams and plans, but along with many other factors time is a crucial determinator when it comes to fulfill them. But this author thinks otherwise.
Dreams don’t follow the clock, they follow the heart
(Location 332 - Kindle version)

What do you think about this idea? Can we even bend time if we follow our hearts, given that the heart is set in the correct path?
I've not read more of the book than your quote. The quote doesn't seem to contradict what you say: the thesis "Dreams don’t follow the clock, they follow the heart" appears to be compatible with the thesis that "time is a crucial determinator when it comes to fulfill" those dreams.
I am sorry but I do not see the compatibility between the two. I believe time is a crucial factor, and if you put your heart in an unrealistic goal, time can be the deciding factor but not your heart.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
User avatar
Sushan
Book of the Month Discussion Leader
Posts: 1060
Joined: February 19th, 2021, 8:12 pm
Contact:

Re: Everything follows the clock. Do dreams act differently?

Post by Sushan »

JackDaydream wrote: August 5th, 2022, 3:47 pm
Sushan wrote: August 5th, 2022, 12:48 pm This topic is about the August 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, Living in Color: A Love Story, In Sickness and in Health by Mike Murphy



There is a time factor in any area that we cross in our lives. People have many dreams and plans, but along with many other factors time is a crucial determinator when it comes to fulfill them. But this author thinks otherwise.
Dreams don’t follow the clock, they follow the heart
(Location 332 - Kindle version)

What do you think about this idea? Can we even bend time if we follow our hearts, given that the heart is set in the correct path?
It may be that dreams step outside of the linear dimensions of time. This may be different to the everyday sentience of human experiences, connecting to other dimensions, including the nature of eternity. This may be a little different from the way in which physical causation is experienced, especially in relation to the 3D nature of reality in which most experiences are usually perceived,Within 'dream reality' there is a weaving in and out of the usual framework of consciousness, including going beyond the scope of clockwork time, into a wider perspective of eternity as a source and point of reference for understanding the larger picture and perspective of experience.
Seemingly you have taken this discussion towards the dreams that we see during our sleep, which is another interesting topic. Yes, in dream reality the time runs so quickly. We experience hours in our dreams, but in the real world those hours are mere seconds. So, yes, in 'dream reality' the time perception acts differently.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
User avatar
Sushan
Book of the Month Discussion Leader
Posts: 1060
Joined: February 19th, 2021, 8:12 pm
Contact:

Re: Everything follows the clock. Do dreams act differently?

Post by Sushan »

stevie wrote: August 5th, 2022, 4:35 pm
JackDaydream wrote: August 5th, 2022, 3:47 pm It may be that .... This may be...This may be a little different from ...
You know what all your "may be[s]" may be?
I think 'may be' is the base of most of our arguments. If we knew about something for sure, we may not be able to argue upon that.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
User avatar
Sushan
Book of the Month Discussion Leader
Posts: 1060
Joined: February 19th, 2021, 8:12 pm
Contact:

Re: Everything follows the clock. Do dreams act differently?

Post by Sushan »

JackDaydream wrote: August 5th, 2022, 5:38 pm
stevie wrote: August 5th, 2022, 4:35 pm
JackDaydream wrote: August 5th, 2022, 3:47 pm It may be that .... This may be...This may be a little different from ...
You know what all your "may be[s]" may be?
My thinking seems to involve a lot of may be's, bound up with a lot uncertainty. Perhaps, I should adopt 'May Be' as a prefix to Daydream, in order to convey more fluidity to my Daydream self. If anything, dreams are about the may be's in the surreal imagination and the fluidity connected to the inbetweeness of the real and unreal, outside of space and time.
True. Dreams offer us unlimited opportunities and possibilities which are not possible in reality, and we even do not imagine of. So I think I can agree with your idea on dreams being the 'inbetweenness of the real and unreal'.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
User avatar
Sushan
Book of the Month Discussion Leader
Posts: 1060
Joined: February 19th, 2021, 8:12 pm
Contact:

Re: Everything follows the clock. Do dreams act differently?

Post by Sushan »

Gee wrote: August 5th, 2022, 6:27 pm Jack,

Actually, you are correct. Dreams do not follow the clock because they source from the unconscious aspect of mind, some parts of which do not acknowledge time. Emotion also works through the unconscious, so it is reasonable to state that dreams follow the heart and not the clock.

You can look up Blanco's work where he found that there is a logic that can be found in the unconscious as long as one dismisses time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignacio_Matte_Blanco

Gee
Being unconscious is inevitably coupled with lack of perception regarding the concept of time. If dreams are connected with unconsciousness, then definitely the lack of time perception should have an interconnection with dreaming.

But, as you said, do emotions also work through unconsciousness?
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
stevie
Posts: 664
Joined: July 19th, 2021, 11:08 am

Re: Everything follows the clock. Do dreams act differently?

Post by stevie »

Sushan wrote: August 16th, 2022, 10:18 pm
stevie wrote: August 5th, 2022, 1:25 pm
Sushan wrote: August 5th, 2022, 12:48 pm People have many dreams and plans, but along with many other factors time is a crucial determinator when it comes to fulfill them. But this author thinks otherwise.
Dreams don’t follow the clock, they follow the heart
(Location 332 - Kindle version)

What do you think about this idea? Can we even bend time if we follow our hearts, given that the heart is set in the correct path?
I've not read more of the book than your quote. The quote doesn't seem to contradict what you say: the thesis "Dreams don’t follow the clock, they follow the heart" appears to be compatible with the thesis that "time is a crucial determinator when it comes to fulfill" those dreams.
I am sorry but I do not see the compatibility between the two. I believe time is a crucial factor, and if you put your heart in an unrealistic goal, time can be the deciding factor but not your heart.
Well to me these two theses appear completely comtpatible. I think your fault is to think of the realization of a dream but the thesis "Dreams don’t follow the clock, they follow the heart" is completely independent of the realization of a dream.
mankind ... must act and reason and believe; though they are not able, by their most diligent enquiry, to satisfy themselves concerning the foundation of these operations, or to remove the objections, which may be raised against them [Hume]
Post Reply

Return to “Living in Color: A Love Story, In Sickness and in Health by Mike Murphy”

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021