More than cure, more than prevention!

Use this forum to discuss the August 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, Living in Color: A Love Story, In Sickness and in Health by Mike Murphy
User avatar
Sushan
Book of the Month Discussion Leader
Posts: 2221
Joined: February 19th, 2021, 8:12 pm
Contact:

Re: More than cure, more than prevention!

Post by Sushan »

Elephant wrote: August 23rd, 2022, 9:48 pm
Sushan wrote: August 7th, 2022, 9:51 pm

The old saying suggests which of the above is better. But this author is suggesting something superior to both, 'rising above pain'. What is your opinion regarding this third option? What is really meant by it?
To me rising above pain means not allowing pain to be the determining factor of one's decision to live their life. So, say a person was once cheated by his/her significant other. That's very painful. So, the couple ended up separating. The person shouldn't stop trying another relationship again even if it could again result in another painful situation because of the advantages or joy that a new relationship could also bring to his life.
Well, that is quite a way to say it. But learning from experiences include being cautious as well. The person can always try a second relationship. But if he/she is an average human, definitely he/she will remain cautious. And we cannot find fault in that as well.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
User avatar
Sushan
Book of the Month Discussion Leader
Posts: 2221
Joined: February 19th, 2021, 8:12 pm
Contact:

Re: More than cure, more than prevention!

Post by Sushan »

LuckyR wrote: August 24th, 2022, 3:03 am
Sushan wrote: August 19th, 2022, 12:29 pm
LuckyR wrote: August 18th, 2022, 3:35 am
Sushan wrote: August 17th, 2022, 10:03 pm

I agree with you. I too think what the author says is not totally correct. But why is this hierarchy when it comes to deal with negative things? Can't we choose overcoming a negative thing before choosing to fall back?
Overcoming a negative means you suffered from the negative THEN overcame it. I would prefer to avoid it and not suffer from it.
I see. But what if overcoming comes with eliminating the negative and avoiding comes with the possibility of re-facing the same negative? Won't it be better to face (and feel) it once than doing so more than once?
I don't disagree that there are chronic problems, such as addiction or depression, that are better faced and dealt with once and for all than using short term solutions to a long term problem. But I stand by my post on typical short term issues (which are the majority of problems).
I agree. If we know any particular short term problem has nearly a zero percent chance of recurring, then we can choose to avoid it. But how many of us possess the ability to foresee the future? For chronic problems, as you said, it is better to go for elimination.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
stevie
Posts: 762
Joined: July 19th, 2021, 11:08 am

Re: More than cure, more than prevention!

Post by stevie »

Sushan wrote: August 24th, 2022, 12:43 pm
stevie wrote: August 20th, 2022, 1:19 am
Sushan wrote: August 19th, 2022, 12:29 pm
stevie wrote: August 18th, 2022, 1:00 am

Yes and yes.
Thank you very much. But your answer raises more questions in me (sorry for being curious and being too nosy). Don't you have any interests then? Don't you feel happy when you achieve something, or do you get a neutral feeling? (Once again, please keep in mind that you are not obliged to answer as these questions can be personal. Thank you)
There are appearances I pay attention to which is my understanding of "having interest in". E.g. I am reading your post and pay attention to the thoughts that appear. Feelings also are appearances, some of which I pay attention to but I am not seeking particular feelings or identify with them.
I find it quite confusing with the use of the word 'feelings' in two places. You say feelings are appearances, but then you have said about not seeking for particular feelings. Is 'feelings' something superficial, or something deep?

It seems that feeelings are conditioned appearances. If causes and conditions are appropriate particular feelings appear.
One may condition oneself into thinking "If I achieve this or that then I will be happy." but then - having achieved this or that - it is possible that happiness does not appear. Why? Because some conditions are lacking.
Saying "I am not seeking particular feelings" means "I don't let me be deluded by appearing thoughts about doing this or that will entail the appearance of this or that agreeable feeling".
mankind ... must act and reason and believe; though they are not able, by their most diligent enquiry, to satisfy themselves concerning the foundation of these operations, or to remove the objections, which may be raised against them [Hume]
User avatar
Sushan
Book of the Month Discussion Leader
Posts: 2221
Joined: February 19th, 2021, 8:12 pm
Contact:

Re: More than cure, more than prevention!

Post by Sushan »

stevie wrote: August 24th, 2022, 1:02 pm
Sushan wrote: August 24th, 2022, 12:43 pm
stevie wrote: August 20th, 2022, 1:19 am
Sushan wrote: August 19th, 2022, 12:29 pm

Thank you very much. But your answer raises more questions in me (sorry for being curious and being too nosy). Don't you have any interests then? Don't you feel happy when you achieve something, or do you get a neutral feeling? (Once again, please keep in mind that you are not obliged to answer as these questions can be personal. Thank you)
There are appearances I pay attention to which is my understanding of "having interest in". E.g. I am reading your post and pay attention to the thoughts that appear. Feelings also are appearances, some of which I pay attention to but I am not seeking particular feelings or identify with them.
I find it quite confusing with the use of the word 'feelings' in two places. You say feelings are appearances, but then you have said about not seeking for particular feelings. Is 'feelings' something superficial, or something deep?

It seems that feeelings are conditioned appearances. If causes and conditions are appropriate particular feelings appear.
One may condition oneself into thinking "If I achieve this or that then I will be happy." but then - having achieved this or that - it is possible that happiness does not appear. Why? Because some conditions are lacking.
Saying "I am not seeking particular feelings" means "I don't let me be deluded by appearing thoughts about doing this or that will entail the appearance of this or that agreeable feeling".
If a person sets conditions that are necessary to be happy in order, he/she should be happy when those self-made conditions are fulfilled. If he/she is still unhappy it means that he/she has added some more conditions by him/herself.

In your case, I understand it simply as being ready for the negative aspect, and it will leave you with no negative feelings even if you actually receive the negative results (failure). It reminds me of the frequent saying of MJ from the new Spider Man movie,
If you expect disappointment, then you can never really be disappointed.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
Post Reply

Return to “Living in Color: A Love Story, In Sickness and in Health by Mike Murphy”

2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021