Do humans evolve at a fast pace?

Use this forum to discuss the September 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, The Not So Great American Novel by James E Doucette
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JDBowden
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Re: Do humans evolve at a fast pace?

Post by JDBowden »

Well.... after ~2 million years of human evolution the best we have evolved to is Tik Tok and Instagram.... We ain't doin' so hot....
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Sy Borg
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Re: Do humans evolve at a fast pace?

Post by Sy Borg »

JDBowden wrote: October 5th, 2022, 7:31 am Well.... after ~2 million years of human evolution the best we have evolved to is Tik Tok and Instagram.... We ain't doin' so hot....
Would you rate Tik Tok and Instagram as the best of humanity? Better than the International Space Station? Unravelling the human genome? Landing on the Moon? Exploring the deep seas? Hygiene? Medicine? Shakespeare? Mozart? Michelangelo? Miles Davis? Picasso? Plato, Socrates, Epicurus, Marcus Aurelius, Hume, Kant and Camus?
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Pattern-chaser
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Re: Do humans evolve at a fast pace?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

JDBowden wrote: October 5th, 2022, 7:31 am Well.... after ~2 million years of human evolution the best we have evolved to is Tik Tok and Instagram.... We ain't doin' so hot....
Sy Borg wrote: October 5th, 2022, 8:25 am Would you rate Tik Tok and Instagram as the best of humanity? Better than the International Space Station? Unravelling the human genome? Landing on the Moon? Exploring the deep seas? Hygiene? Medicine? Shakespeare? Mozart? Michelangelo? Miles Davis? Picasso? Plato, Socrates, Epicurus, Marcus Aurelius, Hume, Kant and Camus?
My vote goes to Miles Davis and Marcus Aurelius. 👍
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Joshua10
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Re: Do humans evolve at a fast pace?

Post by Joshua10 »

Belindi wrote: October 5th, 2022, 5:17 am
Joshua10 wrote: October 5th, 2022, 1:13 am I am not suggesting that the teachings of Jesus or Paul were mystical revelation.I would suggest the the teachings ofJesus and Paul were/are different revelations on the interpretation of the way things are.I would suggest that an individual can either accept or reject these interpretations as far as I can see.As I said, from my understandings of the Christian scriptures a God does it all from start to finish.There is absolutely nothing the individual can do to accept or reject the plan that this God has put in place other than if that God gives the individual the ability to do so.I find that more mysterious than mystical.

I see these alternative revelations as stating that man/woman may think that they have a say in things but ultimately they don’t unless a God permits them.I see these revelations as saying that everything is of God and it is only by the grace and mercy of this God that we even exist to be able to comment in posts such as these.

I would suggest that that is a lot to get your head around.
Christians' deity is strongly deterministic, which is the basis and main point of your claim. Within a strong deterministic belief in the Christian supreme deity both Jesus Christ and Paul are part of God's holy word. As are you and I and everything else that happens exactly the way God decided it was all to be.

How then can God blame us and punish us for our sins?

Answer: the Christian doctrine of Free Will means the God gave this special dispensation to humans out of all the creation to avoid the implications of strong determinism.

Jesus Christ , as both God and man ,was of course not subject to Free Will, and that is why he struggled against the Tempter to obey His God self rather than his human self of Jesus as man.

The determinism of God is the reason you and others believe mankind does not and never has evolved either biologically or culturally. The determinism of God is sometimes called 'predeterminism' or even predestination. 'Predeterminism' also accounts for your belief, Joshua, that species were finalised by God at the beginning of time and thus never evolved so as to become the huge variety of species.

So far the Christian narrative makes sense. What you have not accounted for, Joshua, is that if the Christian deity made all species as unchangeable forms of life , then surely He must also have made the laws and effects of nature such as the force of gravity, osmosis, black holes, death of living things, climates, and evolution by natural selection, and so forth.

My understanding of the Christian scriptures is that a transaction has taken place….. perfection for imperfection.

A 0 swapping places with 1 or a + swapping places for - or good swapping places for bad etc.

That is why I suggested that AWARENESS (+) and UNAWARENESS (-) are on both sides of the fence.

I would suggest that one of the references to this in the Christian scriptures being John1:5

Natures formula is toggling +/- = toggling +/- and not as atheism claims I.e. 0=1 and 1=0

2 Corinthians 5:21 also makes reference to the transaction.
Joshua10
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Re: Do humans evolve at a fast pace?

Post by Joshua10 »

I would suggest that we, as imperfect beings according to the Christian scriptures, are probably not best paced to try and advise perfection about what it should or should not be doing or how and when it is done.

I would have thought a God can do, what it wants,how it wants and whenever it wants.

Are we to claim we know better and offer advice?

I do get that if perfection is prepared to give up that perfection for imperfection then there must be a reason for it.

The Christian scriptures state 1 John 4:16
Belindi
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Re: Do humans evolve at a fast pace?

Post by Belindi »

Joshua10 wrote: October 5th, 2022, 1:16 pm
Belindi wrote: October 5th, 2022, 5:17 am
Joshua10 wrote: October 5th, 2022, 1:13 am I am not suggesting that the teachings of Jesus or Paul were mystical revelation.I would suggest the the teachings ofJesus and Paul were/are different revelations on the interpretation of the way things are.I would suggest that an individual can either accept or reject these interpretations as far as I can see.As I said, from my understandings of the Christian scriptures a God does it all from start to finish.There is absolutely nothing the individual can do to accept or reject the plan that this God has put in place other than if that God gives the individual the ability to do so.I find that more mysterious than mystical.

I see these alternative revelations as stating that man/woman may think that they have a say in things but ultimately they don’t unless a God permits them.I see these revelations as saying that everything is of God and it is only by the grace and mercy of this God that we even exist to be able to comment in posts such as these.

I would suggest that that is a lot to get your head around.
Christians' deity is strongly deterministic, which is the basis and main point of your claim. Within a strong deterministic belief in the Christian supreme deity both Jesus Christ and Paul are part of God's holy word. As are you and I and everything else that happens exactly the way God decided it was all to be.

How then can God blame us and punish us for our sins?

Answer: the Christian doctrine of Free Will means the God gave this special dispensation to humans out of all the creation to avoid the implications of strong determinism.

Jesus Christ , as both God and man ,was of course not subject to Free Will, and that is why he struggled against the Tempter to obey His God self rather than his human self of Jesus as man.

The determinism of God is the reason you and others believe mankind does not and never has evolved either biologically or culturally. The determinism of God is sometimes called 'predeterminism' or even predestination. 'Predeterminism' also accounts for your belief, Joshua, that species were finalised by God at the beginning of time and thus never evolved so as to become the huge variety of species.

So far the Christian narrative makes sense. What you have not accounted for, Joshua, is that if the Christian deity made all species as unchangeable forms of life , then surely He must also have made the laws and effects of nature such as the force of gravity, osmosis, black holes, death of living things, climates, and evolution by natural selection, and so forth.

My understanding of the Christian scriptures is that a transaction has taken place….. perfection for imperfection.

A 0 swapping places with 1 or a + swapping places for - or good swapping places for bad etc.

That is why I suggested that AWARENESS (+) and UNAWARENESS (-) are on both sides of the fence.

I would suggest that one of the references to this in the Christian scriptures being John1:5

Natures formula is toggling +/- = toggling +/- and not as atheism claims I.e. 0=1 and 1=0

2 Corinthians 5:21 also makes reference to the transaction.
John 1.5 The light shines in the darkness and the darkness has not overcome it.
A perfectly good metaphor which I agree with. I practical terms it means that as men do some good and resist evil there is at least the potential in men to be good. According to the Christian narrative God made the goodness and the darkness, the good and the evil, and He made the goodness so it can overcome the evil. That is a belief that allows some of us to hope and we all want hope. At the same time we can understand despair; John Bunyan in Pilgrim's Progress describes "Giant Despair". The idea that hope is biological in origin is a basic tenet of medical intervention for clinical depression and bipolar disorder, and one need not be a Christian to believe it.

However the discussion of what John calls "the light" so far does not address the sheer volume of evil that a deterministic God has ordered.I have little reason so far to whinge about my personal circumstances but I do read a newspaper and see the news on television.

What might begin to explain God's deliberate ordering of such enormous evil as the famine in Somalia is that human culture has evolved so that we do have reportage that lets us see what needs to be done, and the will to intervene.
Joshua10
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Re: Do humans evolve at a fast pace?

Post by Joshua10 »

I would suggest that John 1:5 is referring directly to dualism and the exchange that was necessary in order to neutralise sin?I would suggest that the Christian scriptures are stating that only perfection or a perfect God could fulfil that exchange.

In other words a God does it all.

I would suggest that it is stating that we cannot contribute to it in any way.

I would suggest that Job in the Christian scriptures book of Job had the same deeper enquiries that you have.
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Sy Borg
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Re: Do humans evolve at a fast pace?

Post by Sy Borg »

The book of Job is a good one. After Job's wife and children are killed he was delighted when, later on, God created a brand new family for him, with upgrades. Out with the old and in with the new! The compassion and decency of the ancients is inspirational.

Thankfully, humans are culturally evolving past such silly superstitions and myths, although there are obviously some holdouts.
Joshua10
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Re: Do humans evolve at a fast pace?

Post by Joshua10 »

Sy Borg wrote: October 6th, 2022, 7:25 pm The book of Job is a good one. After Job's wife and children are killed he was delighted when, later on, God created a brand new family for him, with upgrades. Out with the old and in with the new! The compassion and decency of the ancients is inspirational.

Thankfully, humans are culturally evolving past such silly superstitions and myths, although there are obviously some holdouts.
Well as I have already suggested Sy Borg, all any of us have is a hope in whether a God exists or not.Also,a belief in a God, it would appear, is not enough, because according to the Christian scriptures anyway even the devil believes in a God.If there is a God then I would suggest that you take your queries up with that God.Man accepts he is responsible for all atrocities throughout history until a God is mentioned and then all the blame is put on that God.The Christian scriptures say that there is a Devil as well you know.Are you saying that you would agree with this Devil, if he exists? Why wouldn’t the devil be responsible for all the atrocities throughout history as an alternative? Please explain.

I would suggest that humans aren’t evolving past silly superstitions and myths though.The atheistic invention of that mythical one sided logic force gravity from flowery mathematics being a classic example.Black holes being another classic example and the claim that a single Big Bang started it all being another.There aren’t any black holes,Just holes my friend which I have already suggested John 1:5 is making reference to.Darkness and Light having been separated within holes.

I would suggest that you have no understanding of the “I am”/Awareness/Consciousness and how it relates to NATURES science.

We are all embroiled with NATURES science.How can we be separate from it as ATHEISTIC science claims in its ignorance?
Joshua10
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Re: Do humans evolve at a fast pace?

Post by Joshua10 »

I would suggest that the standard atheistic scientific model which has attempted woefully to explain it all is dead.There will be those who will continue trying to remodel nonsense for sure but it will still be nonsense at the end of the day if it only has half the ingredients.
Belindi
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Re: Do humans evolve at a fast pace?

Post by Belindi »

Joshua wrote:
---all any of us have is a hope in whether a God exists or not.
I don't object to belief in God. I myself am trying to seek what would a reasonable God.

The God you trust is at the top of a vertical hierarchy with Him at the summit, angels under Him, mankind under the angels, and other beasts under mankind. This authoritarian God has had a dismal effect on peace and prosperity ever since He appeared , and He appeared notably to a Palestinian tribe. The rest is history.

That history of the supreme- being- type God, the Abrahamic God, has been devilish. That supreme being belief caused, or mightily aided, the genocide of Cathars by the Pope's soldiers. That supreme being was the moral justification for Christian imperialism including slavery of African peoples.

Your theology, Joshua, is not incorrect, it's devilish.

https://www.britannica.com/event/Massacre-at-Beziers
Joshua10
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Re: Do humans evolve at a fast pace?

Post by Joshua10 »

I would suggest that inordinate to understand consciousness the individual has to transition from “spectator” science to “player” science which it would appear is something that atheistic science is unwilling to do.
Joshua10
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Re: Do humans evolve at a fast pace?

Post by Joshua10 »

Belindi wrote: October 7th, 2022, 5:19 am Joshua wrote:
---all any of us have is a hope in whether a God exists or not.
I don't object to belief in God. I myself am trying to seek what would a reasonable God.

The God you trust is at the top of a vertical hierarchy with Him at the summit, angels under Him, mankind under the angels, and other beasts under mankind. This authoritarian God has had a dismal effect on peace and prosperity ever since He appeared , and He appeared notably to a Palestinian tribe. The rest is history.

That history of the supreme- being- type God, the Abrahamic God, has been devilish. That supreme being belief caused, or mightily aided, the genocide of Cathars by the Pope's soldiers. That supreme being was the moral justification for Christian imperialism including slavery of African peoples.

Your theology, Joshua, is not incorrect, it's devilish.

https://www.britannica.com/event/Massacre-at-Beziers
Well I would suggest the opposite and suggest that the devil would say that.My theology isn’t devilish at all.I can only hope or not hope in a God.
Joshua10
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Re: Do humans evolve at a fast pace?

Post by Joshua10 »

Do you accept that man is responsible for all atrocities throughout history?

So why would the mention of a God or a Devil change that?

Are you claiming that if there is a God or the Devil that one or the other is fully responsible then?

Why does it have to be all a God’s fault? Why can’t it all be a Devils fault?
Joshua10
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Re: Do humans evolve at a fast pace?

Post by Joshua10 »

I would suggest the possibility that a God can allow the devil to do its worst but that doesn’t necessarily mean that a God is responsible for any atrocities throughout history.

The Christian scriptures state that God is love does it not?

So when it comes to dualism, Light and Darkness are on both sides of the fence and SEPARATE!!!!!

So John 1:5 would make sense.
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