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Topics are uncensored, meaning even extremely controversial viewpoints can be presented and argued for, but our Forum Rules strictly require all posters to stay on-topic and never engage in ad hominems or personal attacks.


Use this forum to discuss the October 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches by John N. (Jake) Ferris
#474268
Pattern-chaser wrote: May 9th, 2025, 6:23 am
Sy Borg wrote: May 8th, 2025, 5:51 pm Seriously, if a person thinks they might miss out on voting, what is to stop them from spending the fifteen minutes needed to learn different levels of government and their main functions? If you are going to be a contributing citizen to democracy, you can at least be aware of the very most basic aspects of what federal, state and local governments do. Otherwise, you cannot make an informed vote, and thus undermine democracy.
Is voting a right or a privilege, or both?
Is voting mandatory? If so, what is the penalty for not voting?
What knowledge (if any) must the voter have, and be able to display?

Is the 'wisdom of crowds' applicable to voting?
If we constrain voters, and their reasons for voting, do we lose that 'wisdom'?

In other words, all I'm saying is that these arguments are long known and well-rehearsed by others, I think. Yes?
In Australia voting is compulsory. Last I remember, the punishment is $20 for missing a federal election, $25 for missing a state election and $55 for missing a local government election. Simply, the more important the election, the less you are punished for not voting.

The labels don't matter - "rights and privileges" are the language of the out-of-touch. Is it your right or a privilege to vote when neither major party represents the voters but global interests instead? The current (Albanese) government has increased Australia's population by 1.7 million in the last three years - turning what was already a historic housing squeeze into a full blown housing crisis. The "opposition" was offering to reduce immigration by 10,000 per year.

Not much of a choice when both parties are committed to keeping housing prices artificially high and driving ever more (formerly) middle class people into despair and homelessness. It renders the OP's question somewhat moot.

The wisdom of crowds in such a connected world is now just the wisdom of media owners/oligarchs. The rules are changing faster than academia moves, which is why academics today tend to be so grievously out of touch with reality.

Some intrepid/masochistic types still hold individual opinions, but most people today adopt the ideas of "their side" rather than informing themselves on different policy areas and making their own analyses. Many are too busy to devote time to understanding political issues, so they let the mainstream media tell them what to do.

Tell me, is there a single issue where you disagree with The Guardian?
#474285
Sy Borg wrote: May 9th, 2025, 5:24 pm Tell me, is there a single issue where you disagree with The Guardian?
😁

Now let me think... Yes, there is. Lately, when I try to view a Guardian page, it refuses to display because it can't get through my ad-blocker. So I no longer peruse The Guardian. I disagree with their use of anti-ad-blockers.

I'm sure there are other things too. 😉
Favorite Philosopher: Cratylus Location: England
#474304
Pattern-chaser wrote: Yesterday, 6:05 am
Sy Borg wrote: May 9th, 2025, 5:24 pm Tell me, is there a single issue where you disagree with The Guardian?
😁

Now let me think... Yes, there is. Lately, when I try to view a Guardian page, it refuses to display because it can't get through my ad-blocker. So I no longer peruse The Guardian. I disagree with their use of anti-ad-blockers.

I'm sure there are other things too. 😉
Hmm, so you are a Guardian bot?? You are actually an AI playing double bluff with me regarding machine intelligence? :lol:
#474321
Sy Borg wrote: Today, 12:52 am Hmm, so you are a Guardian bot?? You are actually an AI playing double bluff with me regarding machine intelligence? :lol:
Nearly. I am a human, supposedly gifted with intelligence, rebelling against ignorant misunderstanding when it comes to applying "intelligent" to electronics and software. This is a long-standing misunderstanding, that has been around for years, but only recently applied to so-called AIs. I think this erroneous usage originated with ad-men, seeking to make their product sound more than it was/is. I.e. lying.



Ooops! This topic is about humans, voting. Not computers. Apologies for derail. 😳
Favorite Philosopher: Cratylus Location: England
#474330
Pattern-chaser wrote: Today, 8:59 am
Sy Borg wrote: Today, 12:52 am Hmm, so you are a Guardian bot?? You are actually an AI playing double bluff with me regarding machine intelligence? :lol:
Nearly. I am a human, supposedly gifted with intelligence, rebelling against ignorant misunderstanding when it comes to applying "intelligent" to electronics and software. This is a long-standing misunderstanding, that has been around for years, but only recently applied to so-called AIs. I think this erroneous usage originated with ad-men, seeking to make their product sound more than it was/is. I.e. lying.



Ooops! This topic is about humans, voting. Not computers. Apologies for derail. 😳
Yep, definitely algorithmic. No relevance, no nuance, just spouting.

And I don't think it's unreasonable to expect people to have just a tiny modicum of understanding of issues, such as knowing which level of government handles defence, health, education, housing, aged care etc.

Democracy is strongest when people are informed. Currently, it's not possible to be well-informed with just the mainstream media, which is too partisan and focused on $$ to provide true impressions of what's going on.
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