The November 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month is In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All.

If your body very slowly and steadily morphed into an atom-by-atom identical copy of my body, would you still be you?

Discuss the November 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes.

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Mayuri Kotalawala
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Re: If your body very slowly and steadily morphed into an atom-by-atom identical copy of my body, would you still be you

Post by Mayuri Kotalawala »

"Whatever we do is directed by our Mind. And maybe by Soul.The value of our acts is always included in the work itself.There is no need to think about the intention and result. If we are honest and genuine, we will get satisfaction and happiness!"- Dattatraya, this I can agree with.
Dattatraya
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Re: If your body very slowly and steadily morphed into an atom-by-atom identical copy of my body, would you still be you

Post by Dattatraya »

Mayuri Kotalawala wrote: November 21st, 2022, 12:14 am "Whatever we do is directed by our Mind. And maybe by Soul.The value of our acts is always included in the work itself.There is no need to think about the intention and result. If we are honest and genuine, we will get satisfaction and happiness!"- Dattatraya, this I can agree with.
I am very happy, Sister.
I will like to add - We are driven by Destiny!
And Destiny is always with us.
Never to bother for disturbances.

:)
Dea Ann Bridegroom
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Re: If your body very slowly and steadily morphed into an atom-by-atom identical copy of my body, would you still be you

Post by Dea Ann Bridegroom »

During the morphing process you would still be me with character traits of you.
You would have characteristics of because they are acquired during the process.
Richardkcaputophd009
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Re: If your body very slowly and steadily morphed into an atom-by-atom identical copy of my body, would you still be you

Post by Richardkcaputophd009 »

Whatever we do is directed by our Mind. And maybe by Soul. - Meaning what?
Mayuri Kotalawala
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Re: If your body very slowly and steadily morphed into an atom-by-atom identical copy of my body, would you still be you

Post by Mayuri Kotalawala »

[quote=Richardkcaputophd009 post_id=429324 time=1669410517 user_id=51631]
Whatever we do is directed by our Mind. And maybe by Soul. - Meaning what?
[/quote]

It is what our Mind brings from the previous body or past life experience that influences the present body. For instance, if a person is good at playing a musical instrument or singing, it maybe because he/she practised it a lot in the past life and that information retained in the Mind which came to this life.
Dattatraya
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Re: If your body very slowly and steadily morphed into an atom-by-atom identical copy of my body, would you still be you

Post by Dattatraya »

Richardkcaputophd009 wrote: November 25th, 2022, 5:08 pm Whatever we do is directed by our Mind. And maybe by Soul. - Meaning what?


:)

A human being consists of:
The Body ( including brain )
The Mind ( medium between body and brain )
And
The Living force ( energy required for body action/motion )

The body is visible. The Mind and the Living force
exist but are invisible. However, they can be experienced
by the body actions.

Our body operates /functions with the help of
sense organs - Skin, Eyes, Ears, Nose and Tongue .
Working of sense organs to produce senses requires processing by brain. Body responds continuously to
these senses. The responses of the body to senses are
not totally involuntary like our respiration or beating of
heart . These can be altered or modified, but only by interference by some other power. This some other
power is nothing else but the Mind.

Each and every activity of a person ( which is a constituent
of the behaviour of the person ) originates via the above
said responses. And the same is controlled by the Mind. In support of this let us consider an example of the following event :-
I am working in my office. Suddenly, I get a smell of burning something. On searching I notice a small fire on the false ceiling of a room. Let us think, what I can do in this situation?!
1. I can inform the concerned safety person and wait watching the fire condition. Or
2. I can inform the concerned safety person and move
away from the fire to a safe place. or
3. I can try to cease the fire with somebody's help.
When I select and follow one way or action from the above three choices; it is a point of study, about the source of my decision! This source is our Mind!

Now consider the case of a dilemma which we face many times:
* What we should do and what we should not!
* Whether to do or not to do!
* To go this way or that way!
When we select one action, again the source of the
decision is the Mind.
This is the way different life activities of a person are controlled and monitored by the Mind.

Now what is the source of the living force ( or energy )
used for the activities of a person? This source can be experienced by any person, as the Soul of that person
if that person notes and studies some specific actions/ activities, for example ' Intuition '.

Considering the above observations, we can answer the original question about morphing -
Whatever we may do with our body ( including brain )
to change from ' me ' to ' you ' ( and vice versa ) there
will be no change in the Mind and the Soul of a person!


:(
Dattatraya
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Re: If your body very slowly and steadily morphed into an atom-by-atom identical copy of my body, would you still be you

Post by Dattatraya »

Mayuri Kotalawala wrote: November 26th, 2022, 12:53 pm
Richardkcaputophd009 wrote: November 25th, 2022, 5:08 pm Whatever we do is directed by our Mind. And maybe by Soul. - Meaning what?

It is what our Mind brings from the previous body or past life experience that influences the present body. For instance, if a person is good at playing a musical instrument or singing, it maybe because he/she practised it a lot in the past life and that information retained in the Mind which came to this life.
:)

I understand that you mean to say ' There will be no change in the Mind of a person even after morphing of his or her body! '
I agree 👍!

:)
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Re: If your body very slowly and steadily morphed into an atom-by-atom identical copy of my body, would you still be you

Post by Sushan »

Well, throughout the book you have discussed that the physical body, clothes, ego, or nothing else have anything to do with the real 'you'. And this real self is similar when we consider all human beings, including their past and future selves. In that case there cannot be any difference to the real me or real you even our bodies (including brains) are exchanged. Finally, I should be you and you should be me. But the practicality of the last sentence is doubtful to me because there are factors that define you and me rather than our shared consciousnesses.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Re: If your body very slowly and steadily morphed into an atom-by-atom identical copy of my body, would you still be you

Post by Sushan »

Richardkcaputophd009 wrote: November 16th, 2022, 3:28 pm I suspect not - the environment that impacts the development of your-body-becoming-my-body differs from my body which is being transformed if it were even possible.
If we just consider our bodies, the two of us will be really different when a body transformation is done, and that will not even need the impact from the environment to have that difference. I am pretty sure your body is not like mine and mine is not like yours, despite the common atoms that make the elements of our bodies. But here the question addresses a deep place, considering our consciousnesses, which can very well be similar according to what have been discussed in this book.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Re: If your body very slowly and steadily morphed into an atom-by-atom identical copy of my body, would you still be you

Post by Sushan »

Richardkcaputophd009 wrote: November 16th, 2022, 3:48 pm Analogously, think of two atom-by-atom-identical selves living apart in two different universes. The environment in each would be different, thereby affecting how each develops over time.
I agree with your point. Identical twins are 100% similar from the level of DNA. So there atoms should be similar as well. But if we raise them in different environments, they will definitely grow into different adults based on the environmental impact. I think there are many such examples in our neighborhoods and no need to think about multiverses to see that your point is quite correct.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Re: If your body very slowly and steadily morphed into an atom-by-atom identical copy of my body, would you still be you

Post by Sushan »

Jkk67- wrote: November 16th, 2022, 3:55 pm I find the question nonsensical. Look at it this way. If a glass morphed molecule by molecule into another glass, would it be the same glass. And, what difference does it make. The body is simply a vessel for one’s life force (soul etc). From one point of view, the vessel matters little. What is most concerning is, how attached, mentally, philosophically etc, is a person to their body? That’s where the body can be trouble, yet even then it’s not the body’s fault, but the person’s
The difference between two identical objects as well as the differences of the same object in two places of the time line have been discussed throughout the history. It has been a matter of interest in the field of philosophy as well as science. IMO, the two glasses will be identical and the same in appearance and their use. But at the atomic level we should see differences as the inside of the atoms are subjected to change their physical appearance over the time, although it does not affect the overall appearance of the particular atom.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

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Re: If your body very slowly and steadily morphed into an atom-by-atom identical copy of my body, would you still be you

Post by Sushan »

Scott wrote: November 16th, 2022, 4:09 pm
Richardkcaputophd009 wrote: November 16th, 2022, 3:48 pm Analogously, think of two atom-by-atom-identical selves living apart in two different universes. The environment in each would be different, thereby affecting how each develops over time.
That explains why in practice it's unlikely that you would randomly morph into an atom-by-atom copy of me.

Likewise, if you did, we could image that would require the environment in which you find yourself would likewise to have to have morph to a certain degree to also match the environment in which I find myself.

So please do imagine then that not only does your human body slowly morph into an atom-by-atom copy of my current 36-year-old body, but that your surroundings similarly morph at similar very slow into a nearly identical copy of my current surroundings.

This would mean after 30 years of gradual change that is unnoticeable minute by minute 'you' would eventually find 'yourself' in a body that is an identical copy of mine in an environment/surroundings that is at least nearly identical to mine.

Would you still be you?

Would you be me?

Would you simultaneously be both me and you?
I see that rather than being one self or the other, the awareness of the change of the body and the surrounding has been taken into consideration. So if the slow morph does not trigger any alarms in myself, I will not know that my body is changed. And within my mind I will still be myself though I am transformed into you physically.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Re: If your body very slowly and steadily morphed into an atom-by-atom identical copy of my body, would you still be you

Post by Sushan »

Silvo wrote: November 17th, 2022, 6:19 am The brain, for instance, requires 100% of certain cells to function normally. I am not a guru in science, but I guess all these cells interact and share "information." So, if atom A in me is replaced with atom B from someone else, atom A will interact with my remaining atoms, bringing in new traits and at the same time absorbing new ones from his new environment. In the end, when all my cells have been replaced, they will have left a copy of their traits in the new ones. At the same time, the new cells will have inherited their traits from their previous host. Therefore, I think it's possible for me to still be me and also be you, but only if the cells were morphed gradually. 

The real Silvio Omutsiambo
I think your point resembles the theory regarding plasticity of the brain. When a part of the brain dies due to loss of blood flow, over the time the surrounding cells gradually take over the duties of the lost cells. And that is how patients who had strokes gradually recover to a certain extent.

So, with the amazing ababilities of our bodily cells, such a morph is achievable without loosing our selves.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

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Re: If your body very slowly and steadily morphed into an atom-by-atom identical copy of my body, would you still be you

Post by Sushan »

Dattatraya wrote: November 17th, 2022, 6:44 am After reading all the posts ( as of now) it's my observation and conclusion, that the original question and the answers opinions/comments/discussion of the participants, are related/concerned (only ) about ' change in the body '.

Why we should not go and think beyond ' body ' ?! ( one member has rightly said: the body is not more than ' simply a vessel for one's life force ' )

The reader/anybody will be in a better position to think about and comment or give opinion, about the original question;
if ' I ' , ' Me '. ' you '. are defined completely .

And what is ' one's life force ' ?

:)
Quite a good question. What is one's life force?

I am unable to fully aanswer that question. But from what I have seen in my practice, the physical body need to remain alive for the whole being to be alive. And when we loose the life of vital organs like heart and brain, we no longer have a living being. Maybe this is a false perception of the modern sciences. But we do not possess any ability to raise someone from death when the physical body has lost its power to remain alive.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Re: If your body very slowly and steadily morphed into an atom-by-atom identical copy of my body, would you still be you

Post by Sushan »

Scott wrote: November 17th, 2022, 12:03 pm
Maduabuchi Eze wrote: November 16th, 2022, 6:09 pm our true identity, that is, the defining aspect of our true nature is spiritual and unique (even though, as you mentioned in your book, there are certain energies and aspirations we hold in common).

[emphasis added]
Thank you for your reply, Maduabuchi. :)

On what basis are you claiming our spirit(s) are "unique". What evidence is there for that alleged uniqueness?

Is it possible you've accidentally committed the begging the question fallacy?

To better understand the context of your reply, may I ask what your answers are to the opening question in the book? (It's titled the "opening question", it's technically two questions.)
Well, nothing discussed in this topic are physically provable, but only allegations. So we can neither accept nor deny our consciousnesses being either unique or common. Since we do not see our consciousnesses (or cannot see) what we can say for sure is that we all are different ane unique from what is there to be seen, including our bodies, clothes, behaviours, egos, etc.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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