Perception is almost entirely a matter of projection.

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Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
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Re: Perception is almost entirely a matter of projection.

Post by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes »

Pattern-chaser wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 8:21 am
Scott wrote: April 21st, 2021, 8:52 pm I would suggest we consider the following three statements all of which may be true:

1. People see what they expect to see.

2. People see what they choose to see.

3. People see what they want to see.
In my view, #2 and #3 are the same thing, near enough. The difference is that #1 is actually a property of our perception process, while #2 and #3 are more like properties of human beings. We could, perhaps, train ourselves not to see as #2 and #3 describe, but #1 is simply part of an unconscious process over which we have no (conscious) control.
I generally agree. Nonetheless, it may be worth noting, in regard to the statement, #1 is simply part of an unconscious process over which we have no (conscious) control, we cannot be very certain the statement is true; that is, at least without some kind of theory of consciousness or some kind of resolution to the hard problem of consciousness. (With that said, I, like you, generally believe it to be true, in practical everyday life at least.)

We don't really know what it means to consciously see versus unconsciously see, and we don't really know what if anything it means to consciously expect, consciously choose, and consciously want, or how or if those are fundamentally different than subconsciously/unconsciously expecting, subconsciously/unconsciously choosing, or subconsciously/unconsciously wanting.

As a conscious spirit, one's perceived relationship to expectation, choice, want, and seeing is all arguably part of that process of projection.

For example, if one adamantly believes one doesn't have free will (whatever that means to them exactly), presumably one is likely to have conscious experiences that match that adamant belief. The vice versa may also be true. For instance, one who is adamantly under the belief that they are totally dreaming and thus have some degree of god-like free will may then have experiences that match that adamant belief, such as being able to turn their alleged dream from hellish nightmare to heavenly bliss and back again all by conscious will alone. Then again, maybe they wake up tomorrow and realize they were a coma patient literally dreaming for many years, truly turning a sleeping dream from hellish nightmare to blissful dream, but is that awakening a validation or invalidation of their earlier belief that the reality was or is all a dream, of that I don't know.

We can awaken from a dream, but can we ever awaken to anything but a dream?
My entire political philosophy summed up in one tweet.

"The mind is a wonderful servant but a terrible master."

I believe spiritual freedom (a.k.a. self-discipline) manifests as bravery, confidence, grace, honesty, love, and inner peace.
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Re: Perception is almost entirely a matter of projection.

Post by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes »

chewybrian wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 5:29 am
Scott wrote: April 21st, 2021, 8:52 pm I would suggest we consider the following three statements all of which may be true:

1. People see what they expect to see.

2. People see what they choose to see.

3. People see what they want to see.


The first may be the most agreeable, most common, and/or most parsimonious way to express the general idea. Nonetheless, very roughly speaking, it seems to me that #2 follows from #1, and #3 follows from #2. So I am inclined to believe all three statements are true, roughly and generally speaking.

In practice, what this means to me, is that there are likely a lot of discontent people running around who are not truly searching for contentment but for excuses for their discontentment, which could make it very easy to accidentally get wrapped up into someone else's self-chosen abusive relationship reality. In other words, they want scapegoats and such. It might be a toxic romantic relationship one could easily quit, it might be a toxic relationship with alcohol one could theoretically choose to stop drinking, it might be an obsessive engagement in resentment (e.g. spending great amounts of time and energy obsessively resenting something one cannot change for being the way it, such as resentfully refusing to accept past, the weather, or some unforgiven person from the past, figuratively crying over spilled milk so to speak). We can easily become an enabler or scapegoat for someone else, letting our best intentions pave their road into ever-deeper hell.
I see Stoic philosophy in what you say, whether or not I chose to see it. I certainly would like to see it in the world, though I seldom do.

I do believe that opinion determines reality. So, #1 works for me. I don't think many of us consciously choose our opinions, though we certainly can.

If I am depressed, is it because I choose to be depressed, because I want to be depressed? I don't think so. I think people fail to realize the control they can have over their emotions and their opinions. They suffer from the illusion of objectivity, and think they perceive facts when all they see is their own opinions. They allow events to distress them that should have no control over them or impact upon them, because they have not been shown how to really view the world objectively (at least, to get closer to objectivity). As you approach real objectivity, all events become neutral. What matters is your own virtue or evil, no matter what happens outside your own intentions and efforts. Once you take all this in, only then does happiness become a choice.
I am huge fan of Stoic philosophy! I have a page from Marcus Aurelius's Meditations taped to my bedroom wall, to see it every morning when I wake up. And my first tattoo was and is "memento mori", which I have on my left forearm so I can see it every day. I'm sure I don't need to bother to tell you what memento mori means. :)
My entire political philosophy summed up in one tweet.

"The mind is a wonderful servant but a terrible master."

I believe spiritual freedom (a.k.a. self-discipline) manifests as bravery, confidence, grace, honesty, love, and inner peace.
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Re: Perception is almost entirely a matter of projection.

Post by Terrapin Station »

I think of perception as being a matter of seeing a bagel on the counter, or a tree in the road, or whatever it might be, and a lot of perception is doing this without applying names, concepts, etc. to what is perceived (though that's part of perception, too).

That sort of perception isn't a matter of "seeing what one wants to see" normally, though there are situations where our brains fill in what we expect to see and so on. There are certainly perceptual illusions (which by the way, we can only be aware of via being able to accurately see what's there contra the illusion).

What you're talking about in your initial post I'd classify more along the lines of semantic interpretation-to-behavioral dispositions, not perception.
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Re: Perception is almost entirely a matter of projection.

Post by QuestionAll+Nothing »

Need some help here are we getting these words Intertwined ?

(per·cep·tion) :The ability to see, hear, or become aware of something through the senses.The state of being or process of becoming aware of something through the senses. a way of regarding, understanding, or interpreting something; a mental impression.

(per·spec·tive): a particular attitude toward or way of regarding something; a point of view.
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Re: Perception is almost entirely a matter of projection.

Post by popeye1945 »

Probably there is some truth to the statement," Perception is almost entirely a matter of projection", entirely, certainly not. Our everyday experience of the world or apparent reality is emergent through the relation of the physical world and one's biology. The world seems the way it is because that is our biological readout of it, different biology different readout, different apparent reality, so reality, the apparent reality that is, is reaction. This is the way our bodies reacts or does not react to the totality of the stimulus available.

How much and if projection plays a part, is at least an interesting proposition. Certainly, our past experiences play into what details might come forward to the individual but is that real projection or just an inclination or habit of applying acquired experience to a new perception. The physical world acts upon us, being acts upon us, objects act upon us, and out the reaction comes the said readout called apparent reality. So in a sense I think the body is full consciousness, subtract or diminish a sense, and one diminishes consciousness, increase sense perception and you increase consciousness, and in degree alter apparent reality. Projection is still an interesting topic of if and how much.
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Re: Perception is almost entirely a matter of projection.

Post by popeye1945 »

Ok, I just had a thought, frightening!! If one wished to call the biological readout spoken of above as projection then yes, its projection, but would that apply if it is all occurring in the mind. The fact that I see red when in fact there is no red out there, only a certain frequency of light, red being the property of a conscious subject. We bestow the experience of red upon the object, as we bestow all meaning on a meaningless physical world. Ok, so the fact the humanity bestows meaning upon a meaningless world, can be said to be projection---YES?
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Re: Perception is almost entirely a matter of projection.

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QuestionAll+Nothing wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 4:57 pm (per·cep·tion) :The ability to see, hear, or become aware of something through the senses.The state of being or process of becoming aware of something through the senses. a way of regarding, understanding, or interpreting something; a mental impression.

(per·spec·tive): a particular attitude toward or way of regarding something; a point of view.
Two of my favourite words!

QuestionAll+Nothing wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 4:57 pm Need some help here are we getting these words Intertwined ?
I don't think so. Where do you see the confusion?
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Re: Perception is almost entirely a matter of projection.

Post by QuestionAll+Nothing »

I see perception based on the evolution of nature
and perspective based on the evolution of nurture.

I can explain if needed.
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Re: Perception is almost entirely a matter of projection.

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QuestionAll+Nothing wrote: April 23rd, 2021, 10:05 am I see perception based on the evolution of nature
and perspective based on the evolution of nurture.


I can explain if needed.
Please do. It could be interesting... 🙂
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Re: Perception is almost entirely a matter of projection.

Post by The Beast »

“I” am taking a bath of photons outside in the sun. As I was looking up to the clouds searching for the mirror of myself the photons moved from the cones inward as a light of certain wavelength and intensity. As it was attenuated by my receptors the proper words were called by the executive agent. How could I deny myself? The millions of neutrinos moving across my body might deny the existence of a thinking object. However, one or two striking particles might produce the electron to activate unknown parts of the substrate. This activation must be blamed on the neutrino bombardment and until recently I did not know what it was. A random stochastic function to form a believe just as illogical as the million of neutrinos denying my existence. I exist. Reality is the exchange of energy at the particle level into forms. The Form reacts in my eye and it might make the executive agent trigger the photonic image in my brain to move my hand and touch. There is a confirmation: my particle reader is working.
As for the sensitivity of my particle reader I might conclude the detection of a larger Universal consciousness since it just activated the idea of such. I might define the unconscious as everything happening between the activation attenuation and procurement of assets to formulate the idea. With this reasoning the unconscious is to blame for all my errors unless I (my executive function) determine to do worse than better.
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Re: Perception is almost entirely a matter of projection.

Post by popeye1945 »

Projection is lifes consciousness bestowisng meaning upon a meaningless world. All meaning is relative to biology, thus, never, never the property of the physical world.
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Re: Perception is almost entirely a matter of projection.

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Scott wrote: April 20th, 2021, 3:38 pm Perception is almost entirely a matter of projection.

Generally speaking, each person sees what they want to see.
Yes, each person sees what they expect to see, but these expectations are not random. They are based on sensory data, even though our minds guess a lot and fill in lots of blanks. See we don't see unicorns or purple clouds in a green sky, even though there is much that we have made up in what we perceive.

Isn't that all there is to this topic? That projection is a major contributor to perception?
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Re: Perception is almost entirely a matter of projection.

Post by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes »

Pattern-chaser wrote: April 25th, 2021, 7:59 am
Scott wrote: April 20th, 2021, 3:38 pm Perception is almost entirely a matter of projection.

Generally speaking, each person sees what they want to see.
Yes, each person sees what they expect to see, but these expectations are not random. They are based on sensory data [...]
They may be partly based on sensory data. Humans may not even exist, let alone human ears and human eyes.
Pattern-chaser wrote: April 25th, 2021, 7:59 am , even though our minds guess a lot and fill in lots of blanks. See we don't see unicorns or purple clouds in a green sky, even though there is much that we have made up in what we perceive.
It's not merely that our minds fill in blanks.

The whole thing is a made-up model of symbolic avatars and icons that absolutely definitely do not accurately depict reality, in the same way that the icons and on-screen images displayed on a computer monitor attached to a desktop computer cannot, do not, and are not meant to actually correctly show what's actually going on at the level of circuits and electricity. It's at best meant to be an incredibly oversimplified symbolic representation to enable user input. Best case scenario (e.g. humans do exist etc.), the VR-reality the brain creates is meant to symbolically represent the reality it, the brain, knows, which is essentially just electric signals from birth received inside a dark quiet skull, which the brain then symbolizes in an incredibly oversimplified icon-oriented way. This is presumably why sleeping dreams so deeply resemble the waking dream of every day life, even though even our brains are functioning at very low capacity during dreaming sleep. What we see, hear and feel has always been an utter fabrication to represent mere electrical signals. Whatever you picture in your head for the color red--or a dog or tree--doesn't exist in physical reality at all, even when you are staring at it with your human eyes. Your brain made it all up. Even if you cut your skull open and peak at your brain in a mirror, what you see is just a ridiculously oversimplified avatar-like icon, a total fiction based off unfathomably complex electrical signals sent through nerves acting like wires. The brain--whatever it is--is representing what's going on electrically in the desktop in an extremely oversimplified user interface of simplistic totally made-up symbolic icons and avatars, the desktop being the nerves and electric signals in your body.

Calling it VR (virtual reality) is not a metaphor at all.

Here is a Ted Talk that I love related to these ideas, by neuroscientist Anil Seth (University of Sussex PhD):

Your brain hallucinates your conscious reality
My entire political philosophy summed up in one tweet.

"The mind is a wonderful servant but a terrible master."

I believe spiritual freedom (a.k.a. self-discipline) manifests as bravery, confidence, grace, honesty, love, and inner peace.
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Re: Perception is almost entirely a matter of projection.

Post by popeye1945 »

Just a thought, would it not be a good idea to define as a heading above one's post, their definition of both perception and projection? Just to keep us on the same page.
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Re: Perception is almost entirely a matter of projection.

Post by QuestionAll+Nothing »

Pattern-chaser wrote: April 24th, 2021, 11:08 am
QuestionAll+Nothing wrote: April 23rd, 2021, 10:05 am I see perception based on the evolution of nature
and perspective based on the evolution of nurture.


I can explain if needed.
Please do. It could be interesting... 🙂

All right, so here we go. Extremely difficult but let’s see where this goes. Man/Woman have created the concept of psychological and physiological adaptations within the human flesh/race/species . Now I must establish the concept of Honesty which, I will attempt to display under the notion of Linguistics and comprehension from my perspective in this perception/projection life/world/existence. (Hon·est) : adjective-free of deceit and untruthfulness; sincere. adverb-used to persuade someone of the truth of something. Im going to attempt to use honesty only because we are now knowledgeable to comprehend from the mind/thought to created physiological and physiological understanding/comprehension/knowledge.

Know= (Cambridge dictionary) information in your mind:

you have to know this first-to comprehend and ultimately understand. Humans can now only manipulate/persuade anything and everything that is done in life now., only cause we now know and we can agree that we are attempting to comprehend what I’m writing in English/linguistics. Mind you I’m demonstrating even what I’m saying with the intent of honesty and yet expressing that I’m being manipulative only because that’s all I can do. The human has no other way once it receives knowledge or become knowledgeable.

Once The Human obtained knowledge which intern created the results of opposites or comparisons/differences/=understanding existence from nonexistent . Knowledge gave humans the ability to see the mind and know it and intern, they can comprehend psychological and physiological understanding of changes. Yet this has now inclined us to ultimately only be used with manipulation knowing or unknowingly to do anything in life with knowledge.

So remove all knowledge and this is the statement there is no such things as opposites or the concept of existent/nonexistent
Zero opposites in the world to include numbers or any acknowledgement of you living or not living. Unfortunately this is not possible cause from your perspective you have read this and intern you are excepting of manipulated knowledge/knowing or of knowing.

Keep it simple and I’ll try:

Intern the only way to establish a concept or true way of opposites is if we use (exist and the absence of exist. Now bare with this the perception/projection/the camera/video camera, now understand your inside a camera, thats the nature. Now everything and everyone uses there own senses inside of the camera and ultimately it’s being perceived from yes the perception entirety from there own perspective lens/senses that’s the nurturing: this is green thats a white person, you are sad etc. The camera nature, has no care for this only drawing in light and drawing all that is seen. Take the concept of a photo picture, time becomes frozen or at a stand still/hints captured. You are in the picture and cannot escape it. This is better explained by the Cambridge definition (Vortex):a dangerous or bad situation in which you become more and more involved and from which you cannot escape.
The moment when the picture is being taken it captures the perception (nature), meaning the camera doesn’t explain or know what’s happening it’s only attempting to copy draw the lines of light in. Now when your holding the picture in your hand, his is a perspective (nurture)/ I’m holding a picture- saying oh look my eyes were closed or tribe Indigenous like mentality how am I there. You can’t hold perception you are given the ability to perceive or pre-conceive from your own perspective through perception, your view.

The Fall
3 Now the serpent(A) was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?

2 The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden,(C) 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.

4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman.(E) 5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God,(F) knowing good and evil.”

6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable(G) for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband,(H) who was with her, and he ate it.(I) 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked;(J) so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.(K)

8 Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking(L) in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid(M) from the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the Lord God called to the man, “Where are you?”(N)

10 He answered, “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid(O) because I was naked;(P) so I hid.”

11 And he said, “Who told you that you were naked?

This is It, I’m not looking for you to believe in concept of God Im only using doctrine to identify the psychological concept and physiological changes that arise from knowledge.

Satan uses and introduces deception which intern is manipulative. They eat of the fruit from the tree of knowledge not knowing the concept of opposites or understanding them meaning not knowledgeable they have no knowledge. Once they eat there eyes are now opened to suggest the idea of difference/opposites/comparisons this is why they take the perspective from the perception that they are naked. The opposites idea is now born, opposite of clothes is the absence of clothes. Yet the opposites of naked is the absence of naked? Pause now. Opposites don’t not exist this is a perspective not the perception.

The Rich and the Kingdom of God
17 As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. “Good teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
18 “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone. 19 You know the commandments: ‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, you shall not defraud, honor your father and mother.

Jesus is teaching people no one is good, because good is not existing in humans, intern it must demonstrated through obedience/law/instruction. The opposite of good is the absence of good. The absence of bad is the absence of bad. Pause. This is the issue Good isn’t not obtainable. Why because God alone is good. If good is not existing in us we can only use perspective to inhabit them =morals/Obedience/forgiveness/law etc. which intern is knowledge.

Recap: deception introduced = opposites which is knowledge. Once knowledgeable you are subjected to consequence knowing opposites. (This is now the view of the perspective outside of perception. Same as this is now nurture outside of nature.)
(Sin) is the conformed notion that knowledge gives you understanding of death and consequence/opposites. The opposite of born is the absence of born. The opposite of death is the absence of death, pause? Opposites do not exist this is perspective of the perception.

Recap from a birds eye view the camera photo/video camera is the perception ......it doesn’t care for opposites or knowledge ...they don’t exist it’s only demonstrating the illustration of light captured.

If you or anyone was to watch it your lens/camera through their lens/eyes it becomes a perspective.=Nurtured

Last is this vortex/vacuum, This is better explained by the Cambridge definition (Vortex):a dangerous or bad situation in which you become more and more involved and from which you cannot escape.

Genesis 1:27
27 
So God created,mankind in his own image,
    in the image of God he created them;
    male and female,he created them.

Understand this image in Hebrew is shade/shadow. Greek entomology of shade: shadow (n.)Old English sceadwe, sceaduwe "the effect of interception of sunlight, dark image cast by someone or something when interposed between an object and a source of light,"

Thus In this is the understanding of image we are the negative In photography, a negative is an image, usually on a strip or sheet of transparent plastic film, in which the lightest areas of the photographed subject appear darkest and the darkest areas appear lightest. [Hints Jesus stating no one is good except God alone]

(Hint negative is humans ultimately)

This is my attempt I tried and I have more but I rather speak on the phone. Pattern-chaser let me know if this is enough. Give me a call on my personal phone# let’s see if we can connect.
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by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021