The November 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month is In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All.

Statements on Collective Consciousness from "In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All"

Discuss the November 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes.

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Statements on Collective Consciousness from "In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All"

Post by Meta Island »

From "In It Together":
Scott wrote: If we ignore consciousness, the universe can be seen as basically one big huge brain, or one big holistic quantum supercomputer.

If we do not ignore consciousness, the universe can likewise still be seen as basically one big huge supercomputer or super-brain, but a conscious one, perhaps one with multiple personality disorder.

In the sense that the seemingly individual consciousness of a human being in spacetime is one with all other consciousness, then it can be said that the material body of that collective consciousness is the entire material universe. All of material nature is the body of collective consciousness.

When this book speaks of collective consciousness, it refers to nothing supernatural or paranormal, but rather simply the sum of the consciousness of all conscious beings in the universe.
Scott, the two quotes you posted in the special forum that serve to invite comments on your book are also serving to limit the entry points into your work, so this is not so much a question as it is another entry point. For me, the above are key passages. I just posted an OP that opines on this very topic, and I agree that a collective consciousness can be seen as “natural”. My take on the body’s relationship with consciousness, however, is different from yours but does not necessarily contradict it.
“Never does Nature say one thing and Wisdom another.” - Juvenal
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Re: Statements on Collective Consciousness from "In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All"

Post by Scott »

Meta Island wrote: November 2nd, 2022, 12:46 pmI agree that a collective consciousness can be seen as “natural”. My take on the body’s relationship with consciousness, however, is different from yours but does not necessarily contradict it.
Hi, Meta Island,

Thank you for quoting those passages. I agree the represent a key philosophical point in the book.

I'm interested to learn more about your take on the body's relationship with consciousness, especially since you mention it's different than mine. I love learning more about different opinions and perspectives.

Thank you,
Scott

(P.S. I hope you don't mind, but since this wasn't a question per se, I split it from the AMA thread to its own thread, which hopefully will also give it more attention and let us discuss it in more detail than if it was merely contained within the AMA thread.)
My entire political philosophy summed up in one tweet.

"The mind is a wonderful servant but a terrible master."

I believe spiritual freedom (a.k.a. self-discipline) manifests as bravery, confidence, grace, honesty, love, and inner peace.
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Re: Statements on Collective Consciousness from "In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All"

Post by Meta Island »

Apologies, my mistake Scott. I didn't realize it was OK to start new topics in this special forum.
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Re: Statements on Collective Consciousness from "In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All"

Post by Sushan »

Hi Meta Island,

I would like to know your thoughts on consciousness and its connection to the human body. Are you thinking about consciousness in a scientific manner (as the result of the collective action of the neurons), or in a more spiritual manner?
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Re: Statements on Collective Consciousness from "In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All"

Post by Meta Island »

Sushan wrote: November 12th, 2022, 3:13 am Hi Meta Island,

I would like to know your thoughts on consciousness and its connection to the human body. Are you thinking about consciousness in a scientific manner (as the result of the collective action of the neurons), or in a more spiritual manner?
Hello Sushan. However you define physical and spiritual, I think most definitions would include the following Ideas:

Physical = Material = Ephemeral Existence

Non-Physical = Spiritual = Eternal Existence

Speaking for myself, I can’t see how material entities like brainwaves, the sine qua non of perception/consciousness/awareness (however you define the terms) can communicate with a detached non-material spirit/soul.

A mind is manifested by material brainwaves forming mental contexts composed of defined Idea elements; when elements are shared between contexts, one context becomes a dimension – an alternate point of view – of the other context. If spirit is not defined via material brainwaves, how can human perception access it, much less materially contextualize it? How can it even be talked about?

My conclusion is that spirit, to be visible to perception, must be defined by material brainwaves.

It makes more sense to me that what we refer to as spirit is a manifested mind composed of contextualized brainwaves that necessarily exists in a presumably eternal Universe awash with a complexity of interacting waves. In this contextualized sense the difference between ephemerally material and eternally non-material is a matter of semantics. What that implies, if anything, I leave to one’s personal interpretation.
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Re: Statements on Collective Consciousness from "In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All"

Post by CalebB »

We are talking about consciousness and its connection to the human body. The way I see it, is that the human body gives the consciousness access to the physical world via the senses. It provides information that the consciousness will experience, like, dislike, fear, or desire. The part of us, which the book refers to as the “real you”, creates stories and learns how to navigate the world using the physical vehicle. However, the physical vehicle does not decide on what is good and bad. It is programmed to give warnings of pain and indicators of pleasure for it’s survival, but the higher thoughts that we have about our feelings lie in the domain of our soul (real you or whatever you want to call it).
I think it is futile to attempt to describe the relationship between consciousness and the physical body in terms of the senses of the body. The relationship between the brainwaves and the consciousness would appear random. There may be a correlation between our emotions and our brainwaves, but emotions are still in the domain of the body. One may monitor brainwaves to analyse the state of the person, and measure their level of wakefulness.
For example, a person’s mind is active in the beta frequency band, and asleep in the Delta. This cannot be used to show what their consciousness is experiencing. One would have to use some sort of exotic technology that was designed to process the information of consciousness, but I don’t know of any such technology that’s in use today. Maybe some day aliens will share it with us.

Speaking for myself, the consciousness influences the brainwaves but it is not the brainwaves. If one imagines a painting, the paint on the canvas can be analogous to the chemical brain processes. One has to take a step back and take a gestalt view of it to understand the information that the painting portrays. The consciousness would be the artist. I believe one can only speculate as to how the “artist” paints the “canvas”. However, we do know that the artist exists because he paints.
I believe reductionist way of thinking will be problematic in this topic. Consciousness is holistic.
I haven’t finished the book yet.
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Re: Statements on Collective Consciousness from "In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All"

Post by Meta Island »

Hello CalebB.

I like your analogy of the paint and the painter; it puts a clear focus on the challenge of understanding consciousness.

We just have different points of view on the subject.
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Re: Statements on Collective Consciousness from "In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All"

Post by Sushan »

Meta Island wrote: November 13th, 2022, 1:19 pm
Sushan wrote: November 12th, 2022, 3:13 am Hi Meta Island,

I would like to know your thoughts on consciousness and its connection to the human body. Are you thinking about consciousness in a scientific manner (as the result of the collective action of the neurons), or in a more spiritual manner?
Hello Sushan. However you define physical and spiritual, I think most definitions would include the following Ideas:

Physical = Material = Ephemeral Existence

Non-Physical = Spiritual = Eternal Existence

Speaking for myself, I can’t see how material entities like brainwaves, the sine qua non of perception/consciousness/awareness (however you define the terms) can communicate with a detached non-material spirit/soul.

A mind is manifested by material brainwaves forming mental contexts composed of defined Idea elements; when elements are shared between contexts, one context becomes a dimension – an alternate point of view – of the other context. If spirit is not defined via material brainwaves, how can human perception access it, much less materially contextualize it? How can it even be talked about?

My conclusion is that spirit, to be visible to perception, must be defined by material brainwaves.

It makes more sense to me that what we refer to as spirit is a manifested mind composed of contextualized brainwaves that necessarily exists in a presumably eternal Universe awash with a complexity of interacting waves. In this contextualized sense the difference between ephemerally material and eternally non-material is a matter of semantics. What that implies, if anything, I leave to one’s personal interpretation.
I think your views on consciousness go along with mine. I believe of our consciousness or our thoughts as manifestations of the activities of the numerous neurons that we have. We have learnt a lot about them up to now, but we have many more to learn about them. The things like brain waves are scales and units of measurements that scientists are agreed upon in studying the activity of neurons. These can be subjected to alterations with the advancement of science. I think it is too early to think about a collective consciousness through science right now. I think it is like the cloud network that we are talking about. The cloud is everywhere, but at the same time it is nowhere. We can access it via the servers that are connected to the cloud, but if a computer is not connected to that the cloud, it cannot be accessed.
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Re: Statements on Collective Consciousness from "In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All"

Post by Meta Island »

sushan wrote: I think your views on consciousness go along with mine. I believe of our consciousness or our thoughts as manifestations of the activities of the numerous neurons that we have. We have learnt a lot about them up to now, but we have many more to learn about them. The things like brain waves are scales and units of measurements that scientists are agreed upon in studying the activity of neurons. These can be subjected to alterations with the advancement of science. I think it is too early to think about a collective consciousness through science right now. I think it is like the cloud network that we are talking about. The cloud is everywhere, but at the same time it is nowhere. We can access it via the servers that are connected to the cloud, but if a computer is not connected to that the cloud, it cannot be accessed.
If the contexts of human minds can be collected in a subset (as I understand a collective consciousness to be) within a Universe composed of contexts, I would suggest that it exists as an Idea – an IdeaContext – within much larger IdeaContexts. Since Ideas exist as waves, it doesn’t make sense to me to limit the number of influencing connections an Idea can have, or for that matter to limit the number of iterations an Idea can have across any population of contexts, human or not.
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Re: Statements on Collective Consciousness from "In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All"

Post by Sushan »

Meta Island wrote: November 17th, 2022, 1:03 pm
sushan wrote: I think your views on consciousness go along with mine. I believe of our consciousness or our thoughts as manifestations of the activities of the numerous neurons that we have. We have learnt a lot about them up to now, but we have many more to learn about them. The things like brain waves are scales and units of measurements that scientists are agreed upon in studying the activity of neurons. These can be subjected to alterations with the advancement of science. I think it is too early to think about a collective consciousness through science right now. I think it is like the cloud network that we are talking about. The cloud is everywhere, but at the same time it is nowhere. We can access it via the servers that are connected to the cloud, but if a computer is not connected to that the cloud, it cannot be accessed.
If the contexts of human minds can be collected in a subset (as I understand a collective consciousness to be) within a Universe composed of contexts, I would suggest that it exists as an Idea – an IdeaContext – within much larger IdeaContexts. Since Ideas exist as waves, it doesn’t make sense to me to limit the number of influencing connections an Idea can have, or for that matter to limit the number of iterations an Idea can have across any population of contexts, human or not.
It is proven that the universe contains all the sound waves that were released, even thousands of years ago if they have not lost there energy by some mean. Similarly, the brain waves can go to the universe and hang there until someone finds a way to catch them and decode them. By that way we should be able to see others' minds. I think that may be the ability that have been described in ancient Asian religious literature as the ability to see others' minds.
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Re: Statements on Collective Consciousness from "In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All"

Post by Meta Island »

Sushan wrote:It is proven that the universe contains all the sound waves that were released, even thousands of years ago if they have not lost there energy by some mean. Similarly, the brain waves can go to the universe and hang there until someone finds a way to catch them and decode them. By that way we should be able to see others' minds. I think that may be the ability that have been described in ancient Asian religious literature as the ability to see others' minds.
That Idea described in that way never occurred to me. Castaneda spoke of remembering his interactions with the Nagual Julian led to feeling/seeing the world as Julian did, but my understanding of that activity is different from what you describe. Good stuff. Thanks Sushan.
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Re: Statements on Collective Consciousness from "In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All"

Post by Sushan »

Meta Island wrote: November 20th, 2022, 9:31 pm
Sushan wrote:It is proven that the universe contains all the sound waves that were released, even thousands of years ago if they have not lost there energy by some mean. Similarly, the brain waves can go to the universe and hang there until someone finds a way to catch them and decode them. By that way we should be able to see others' minds. I think that may be the ability that have been described in ancient Asian religious literature as the ability to see others' minds.
That Idea described in that way never occurred to me. Castaneda spoke of remembering his interactions with the Nagual Julian led to feeling/seeing the world as Julian did, but my understanding of that activity is different from what you describe. Good stuff. Thanks Sushan.
I found a dialogue between the two that you mentioned in your comment, and I am yet to finish reading that content. But from the initial things that were discussed there I got the idea that Juan also telling about a common consciousness, yet different in its own way. But at points he instructs Castaneda to see for himself, which neither Castaneda (IMO) nor us can do. I am not saying that the things out of perception are not true. But such things are hard to understand as well as hard to accept right away.
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Re: Statements on Collective Consciousness from "In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All"

Post by Sushan »

CalebB wrote: November 14th, 2022, 4:01 am We are talking about consciousness and its connection to the human body. The way I see it, is that the human body gives the consciousness access to the physical world via the senses. It provides information that the consciousness will experience, like, dislike, fear, or desire. The part of us, which the book refers to as the “real you”, creates stories and learns how to navigate the world using the physical vehicle. However, the physical vehicle does not decide on what is good and bad. It is programmed to give warnings of pain and indicators of pleasure for it’s survival, but the higher thoughts that we have about our feelings lie in the domain of our soul (real you or whatever you want to call it).
I think it is futile to attempt to describe the relationship between consciousness and the physical body in terms of the senses of the body. The relationship between the brainwaves and the consciousness would appear random. There may be a correlation between our emotions and our brainwaves, but emotions are still in the domain of the body. One may monitor brainwaves to analyse the state of the person, and measure their level of wakefulness.
For example, a person’s mind is active in the beta frequency band, and asleep in the Delta. This cannot be used to show what their consciousness is experiencing. One would have to use some sort of exotic technology that was designed to process the information of consciousness, but I don’t know of any such technology that’s in use today. Maybe some day aliens will share it with us.

Speaking for myself, the consciousness influences the brainwaves but it is not the brainwaves. If one imagines a painting, the paint on the canvas can be analogous to the chemical brain processes. One has to take a step back and take a gestalt view of it to understand the information that the painting portrays. The consciousness would be the artist. I believe one can only speculate as to how the “artist” paints the “canvas”. However, we do know that the artist exists because he paints.
I believe reductionist way of thinking will be problematic in this topic. Consciousness is holistic.
I haven’t finished the book yet.
You indeed have a point. We cannot see this so called consciousness in a whole picture. But then what is actually is referred to as consciousness? Where does it lie; within our bodies or outside our bodies? Is it possible for this consciousness to be the result of the collective acaction of our neural system, which is yet to be fully investigated and understood?
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Re: Statements on Collective Consciousness from "In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All"

Post by Meta Island »

Sushan wrote: November 27th, 2022, 11:31 pm
Meta Island wrote: November 20th, 2022, 9:31 pm
Sushan wrote:It is proven that the universe contains all the sound waves that were released, even thousands of years ago if they have not lost there energy by some mean. Similarly, the brain waves can go to the universe and hang there until someone finds a way to catch them and decode them. By that way we should be able to see others' minds. I think that may be the ability that have been described in ancient Asian religious literature as the ability to see others' minds.
That Idea described in that way never occurred to me. Castaneda spoke of remembering his interactions with the Nagual Julian led to feeling/seeing the world as Julian did, but my understanding of that activity is different from what you describe. Good stuff. Thanks Sushan.
Sushan wrote: I found a dialogue between the two that you mentioned in your comment, and I am yet to finish reading that content. But from the initial things that were discussed there I got the idea that Juan also telling about a common consciousness, yet different in its own way. But at points he instructs Castaneda to see for himself, which neither Castaneda (IMO) nor us can do. I am not saying that the things out of perception are not true. But such things are hard to understand as well as hard to accept right away.
Meta Island wrote: I’d just mention the Julian passage I was referencing is in the commentary section of "The Fire from Within” chapter in The Wheel of Time.

Castaneda’s books are filled with thought-provoking ideas about perception. That is his legacy, and for me it is irrelevant whether the books are non-fiction, fiction, or a mixture of both.
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Re: Statements on Collective Consciousness from "In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All"

Post by CalebB »

Sushan wrote: November 27th, 2022, 11:36 pm
CalebB wrote: November 14th, 2022, 4:01 am We are talking about consciousness and its connection to the human body. The way I see it, is that the human body gives the consciousness access to the physical world via the senses. It provides information that the consciousness will experience, like, dislike, fear, or desire. The part of us, which the book refers to as the “real you”, creates stories and learns how to navigate the world using the physical vehicle. However, the physical vehicle does not decide on what is good and bad. It is programmed to give warnings of pain and indicators of pleasure for it’s survival, but the higher thoughts that we have about our feelings lie in the domain of our soul (real you or whatever you want to call it).
I think it is futile to attempt to describe the relationship between consciousness and the physical body in terms of the senses of the body. The relationship between the brainwaves and the consciousness would appear random. There may be a correlation between our emotions and our brainwaves, but emotions are still in the domain of the body. One may monitor brainwaves to analyse the state of the person, and measure their level of wakefulness.
For example, a person’s mind is active in the beta frequency band, and asleep in the Delta. This cannot be used to show what their consciousness is experiencing. One would have to use some sort of exotic technology that was designed to process the information of consciousness, but I don’t know of any such technology that’s in use today. Maybe some day aliens will share it with us.

Speaking for myself, the consciousness influences the brainwaves but it is not the brainwaves. If one imagines a painting, the paint on the canvas can be analogous to the chemical brain processes. One has to take a step back and take a gestalt view of it to understand the information that the painting portrays. The consciousness would be the artist. I believe one can only speculate as to how the “artist” paints the “canvas”. However, we do know that the artist exists because he paints.
I believe reductionist way of thinking will be problematic in this topic. Consciousness is holistic.
I haven’t finished the book yet.
You indeed have a point. We cannot see this so called consciousness in a whole picture. But then what is actually is referred to as consciousness? Where does it lie; within our bodies or outside our bodies? Is it possible for this consciousness to be the result of the collective acaction of our neural system, which is yet to be fully investigated and understood?
I believe there are varying degrees of consciousness.A bacterium has a lower consciousness than a rat, which has a lower consciousness than a dog, and so on. Right now human beings represent the highest level of consciousness on the planet.
Unlike electricity, consciousness is not off or on. It is always on at varying degrees or forms. Some people even think that crystals have a lesser consciousness. All they are aware of is existing as minerals. They're not aware of feelings such as pain or pleasure but have a consciousness nonetheless; the lowest form.
So I do not think that consciousness is the result of the action of our neurons, but our advanced brains give rise to a high form of consciousness; one that is aware of the self.
The purpose of life is to experience all things desired.

Transformative Awakening - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09Q68K86X/
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