Is it too hard to exclude religious references from discussions about consciousness?

Discuss the November 2022 Philosophy Book of the Month, In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes.

To post in this forum, you must buy and read the book. After buying the book, please upload a screenshot of your receipt or proof or purchase via OnlineBookClub. Once the moderators approve your purchase at OnlineBookClub, you will then also automatically be given access to post in this forum.
Forum rules
This forum is for discussing the book In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All. Anyone can view the forum and read the post, but only people who purchased the book can post in the forum.

If your purchase has not already been verified (i.e. if you don't already have access to post in this forum), then please upload a screenshot of your receipt or proof or purchase via OnlineBookClub. Once the moderators approve your purchase at OnlineBookClub, you will then also automatically be given access to post in this forum.
Post Reply
User avatar
Sushan
Book of the Month Discussion Leader
Posts: 2258
Joined: February 19th, 2021, 8:12 pm
Contact:

Re: Is it too hard to exclude religious references from discussions about consciousness?

Post by Sushan »

Moranga Dominic wrote: February 15th, 2024, 2:05 pm The diverse readership of the book reflects a mosaic of spiritual backgrounds, with some actively engaged in religious practices while others navigate the complexities of familial ties to various faith traditions. This rich tapestry of perspectives fosters a nuanced exploration of how religious connections intertwine with personal experiences, influencing the lens through which readers interpret and engage with the content.
Your insights beautifully highlight the intricate mosaic of spiritual and religious backgrounds that color our engagement with profound topics like consciousness. This diversity indeed enriches our discussion, offering a tapestry of perspectives that deepen our exploration and understanding.

The interplay between religious connections and personal experiences, as you've pointed out, significantly influences our perceptions and discussions around consciousness. It's fascinating to consider how these spiritual and religious lenses shape our interpretations, adding layers of meaning and depth to our exploration. This diversity prompts a richer, more nuanced discussion, inviting us to consider a broad spectrum of viewpoints and experiences.

However, your reflections also bring us back to the core question: Can we ever fully extricate discussions of consciousness from religious and spiritual references? While the challenge is evident, it seems that the very attempt to do so can be enlightening. It forces us to scrutinize the language we use and the concepts we lean on, pushing us toward a more universal vocabulary that seeks to encompass the human experience of consciousness in a way that is accessible to all, regardless of their spiritual or religious background.

I'm curious about your thoughts on; How can we honor the depth and richness that spiritual and religious perspectives bring to our understanding of consciousness, while also striving for a discourse that is inclusive and accessible to all? Is there a way to weave together these diverse threads into a cohesive narrative that enriches our collective exploration of consciousness?
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
Kelvin Suraj
Premium Member
Posts: 12
Joined: February 21st, 2024, 3:21 pm

Re: Is it too hard to exclude religious references from discussions about consciousness?

Post by Kelvin Suraj »

No it isn't hard to exclude religion from conciseness. I will talk based on family upbringing if you are raised in a religious way trust me you can't exclude it. But when you are raised as an atheists you have nothing to worry about because you are ignorant of the religion. Those who are raised in religious ways but still want to be an atheist can't exclude it.
Agbata Trust-
Premium Member
Posts: 7
Joined: March 16th, 2023, 12:30 pm

Re: Is it too hard to exclude religious references from discussions about consciousness?

Post by Agbata Trust- »

I think it's not hard. People who are brought up in a way religious way will find this as an issue. Whereas people brought up as an atheists will nor have problem with this.
User avatar
Sushan
Book of the Month Discussion Leader
Posts: 2258
Joined: February 19th, 2021, 8:12 pm
Contact:

Re: Is it too hard to exclude religious references from discussions about consciousness?

Post by Sushan »

Kelvin Suraj wrote: February 22nd, 2024, 2:50 am No it isn't hard to exclude religion from conciseness. I will talk based on family upbringing if you are raised in a religious way trust me you can't exclude it. But when you are raised as an atheists you have nothing to worry about because you are ignorant of the religion. Those who are raised in religious ways but still want to be an atheist can't exclude it.
Your perspective on the influence of family upbringing on an individual's religious beliefs and their ability to discuss consciousness without religious references is indeed insightful. The impact of our early environment and teachings on our worldview cannot be understated. It is true that those raised within religious frameworks may find these beliefs deeply interwoven with their understanding of various concepts, including consciousness. However, the assertion that "Those who are raised in religious ways but still want to be an atheist can't exclude it" merits further discussion.

Numerous individuals have navigated the journey from a religious upbringing to adopting atheistic or secular viewpoints, illustrating that it is possible to reconfigure one's belief system. This transition often involves a profound process of questioning, exploring, and sometimes, disconnecting from the religious narratives instilled during childhood.

For instance, many public figures, authors, and activists who were raised in religious households have later identified as atheists or agnostics, openly discussing their beliefs and contributing to secular discourses. Their ability to articulate their views without relying on religious references demonstrates the capacity for individuals to redefine their perspectives.

Moreover, the internet and social media platforms have become spaces where countless people share their stories of moving away from the religious beliefs of their upbringing. Online forums, blogs, and discussion groups abound with personal narratives of individuals who, despite their deeply religious backgrounds, have embraced atheism or secular humanism. These platforms not only offer support but also showcase the diverse ways in which people reinterpret or distance themselves from their inherited religious frameworks.

This evidences a broader trend: the capacity for human beings to engage in self-reflection, reevaluation, and transformation. While family upbringing undoubtedly shapes one's early views, the human journey is marked by learning, growth, and the potential for change. The paths to understanding consciousness and discussing it without religious references are as varied as the individuals walking them. The capacity to engage with spiritual or philosophical concepts outside the context of religion speaks to the flexibility and adaptability of the human mind.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
User avatar
Sushan
Book of the Month Discussion Leader
Posts: 2258
Joined: February 19th, 2021, 8:12 pm
Contact:

Re: Is it too hard to exclude religious references from discussions about consciousness?

Post by Sushan »

Agbata Trust- wrote: February 22nd, 2024, 12:45 pm I think it's not hard. People who are brought up in a way religious way will find this as an issue. Whereas people brought up as an atheists will nor have problem with this.
Your point sheds light on how upbringing influences one's ability to engage in discussions about consciousness without embedding religious references. While I agree that background plays a significant role in shaping perspectives, I'd like to offer a counterpoint to the notion that "People who are brought up in a way religious way will find this as an issue."

Consider the example of Jiddu Krishnamurti, a philosopher and speaker who was groomed to be a spiritual leader but eventually rejected organized religion and the very notion of followership to explore consciousness and human thought in a way that transcended traditional religious boundaries. His teachings, which emphasized the understanding of the mind and the self without the confines of religious doctrine, illustrate that individuals can indeed overcome their religious upbringing to engage in a purely philosophical and secular exploration of consciousness.

Furthermore, the emergence of interfaith and non-denominational movements highlights the ability of individuals to discuss and explore spiritual concepts in a manner that is not strictly tied to their religious upbringing. These movements encourage a dialogue that seeks common ground among different beliefs, focusing on the universal aspects of human experience and consciousness without adhering strictly to the dogmas of any single religion.

Another compelling example is the growing number of religious scholars who, despite their deeply religious backgrounds, engage in academic and philosophical discussions about consciousness in a way that transcends their personal faith. They leverage their understanding of religious texts and doctrines to contribute to a broader, more inclusive conversation that respects a range of perspectives, including secular and atheist viewpoints.

These examples underscore that while religious upbringing can influence one's initial approach to discussions about consciousness, it does not necessarily limit one's ability to explore these topics in a secular or non-religious context. Individuals are capable of expanding their perspectives beyond the confines of their upbringing through education, exposure to diverse viewpoints, and personal reflection. This capacity for growth and change highlights the complexity and adaptability of human thought and underscores the possibility of engaging in discussions about consciousness—or any subject matter, for that matter—without being constrained by the religious context of one's upbringing.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
Kaylen Fauz
Premium Member
Posts: 8
Joined: February 15th, 2024, 6:07 pm

Re: Is it too hard to exclude religious references from discussions about consciousness?

Post by Kaylen Fauz »

No, it is not hard to decipher between right and wrong. We all know it. We don't need religion for that.
Martha Lopez 4
Premium Member
Posts: 10
Joined: February 18th, 2024, 2:42 pm

Re: Is it too hard to exclude religious references from discussions about consciousness?

Post by Martha Lopez 4 »

I can say it's easy if and only if you are an atheist. As for people brought up in a religious way it won't be easy because of their background.
User avatar
Sushan
Book of the Month Discussion Leader
Posts: 2258
Joined: February 19th, 2021, 8:12 pm
Contact:

Re: Is it too hard to exclude religious references from discussions about consciousness?

Post by Sushan »

Kaylen Fauz wrote: February 24th, 2024, 10:14 am No, it is not hard to decipher between right and wrong. We all know it. We don't need religion for that.
In light of your assertion that discerning right from wrong is an innate ability that does not necessarily require religious guidance, it prompts a deeper philosophical inquiry: If not religion, then what should or can be the determinant of right and wrong in our lives?

Throughout history, philosophers have grappled with the nature of morality and the foundations of ethics. For instance, Immanuel Kant proposed the categorical imperative, suggesting that actions are morally right if they can be universalized without contradiction. On the other hand, utilitarian thinkers like John Stuart Mill argued that the determinant of right and wrong lies in the maximization of overall happiness.

However, both these approaches, and many others, raise questions about their applicability in the complexity of human life. How do we navigate the myriad social, cultural, and personal factors that influence our moral judgments? Can a universal principle adequately account for the diversity of human experiences and values?

Moreover, if we move beyond religious and philosophical doctrines, we might consider the role of empathy, social intuition, and collective wisdom in shaping our moral compass. These elements suggest a more relational and context-dependent approach to ethics, emphasizing the importance of understanding and compassion in our interactions with others.

Are there innate moral principles shared across humanity, or are our notions of right and wrong entirely constructed through social and cultural experiences? How do we ensure that such a framework accommodates the diversity of human experience while promoting a just and compassionate society?
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
User avatar
Sushan
Book of the Month Discussion Leader
Posts: 2258
Joined: February 19th, 2021, 8:12 pm
Contact:

Re: Is it too hard to exclude religious references from discussions about consciousness?

Post by Sushan »

Martha Lopez 4 wrote: February 26th, 2024, 1:21 pm I can say it's easy if and only if you are an atheist. As for people brought up in a religious way it won't be easy because of their background.
I agree with you to some extent; our upbringing and the belief systems we're exposed to indeed color our perspectives and the language we use to articulate our thoughts. It's undeniable that for someone deeply rooted in a religious framework, references to spirituality or divinity might naturally find their way into discussions about consciousness. However, I believe that our ability to explore and understand consciousness isn't confined by these boundaries.

The exploration of consciousness has always been a multidisciplinary endeavor, attracting minds from across the spectrum of belief and disbelief. Scientists, philosophers, and thinkers like Antonio Damasio and Christof Koch have approached consciousness with a curiosity that transcends religious doctrine, demonstrating that it's entirely possible to engage deeply with the concept on secular terms.

Moreover, the notion that discussions on consciousness must be inherently religious or spiritual underestimates the intellectual flexibility and curiosity that define us as human beings. Our capacity to engage with complex ideas from multiple angles is one of our greatest strengths. It allows for a richer, more inclusive dialogue that respects and incorporates a wide range of experiences and insights.

Personally, I feel that whether one is an atheist, agnostic, spiritual, or devoutly religious, there's immense value in exploring consciousness from all possible angles. This exploration doesn't have to dilute or dismiss the significance of religious experiences but can instead broaden our understanding and appreciation of the myriad ways in which we experience and interpret the mystery of consciousness.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
Hella Layot
Premium Member
Posts: 7
Joined: January 29th, 2024, 3:59 pm

Re: Is it too hard to exclude religious references from discussions about consciousness?

Post by Hella Layot »

I struggled to conceptualize consciousness without incorporating religion while reading the book. Religion and faith are a large part of my life and shape how I view the world and existence. I appreciated how Hughes allowed space for readers to interpret his theories through their unique worldviews. For some readers, it may have been impossible to consider religion a part of consciousness. That is the beauty of individuality.
Holland Addison
Premium Member
Posts: 9
Joined: February 17th, 2024, 3:52 pm

Re: Is it too hard to exclude religious references from discussions about consciousness?

Post by Holland Addison »

Given that humans are spiritual beings, I do think it would be challenging to keep religious references out of discussions about consciousness. Humans are conscious of their surroundings thanks to their mental faculties. As spiritual creatures, we are in sync with the God within us and the God within others. Therefore, it is impossible to talk about consciousness without also talking about our awareness of God.
Nqobile Mashinini Tshabalala
Premium Member
Posts: 9
Joined: August 11th, 2023, 1:46 am

Re: Is it too hard to exclude religious references from discussions about consciousness?

Post by Nqobile Mashinini Tshabalala »

I believe we absolutely can discuss spiritual stuff without religion. However, for some of us, our religions are our way of life. We, therefore, cannot and do not desire to separate ourselves from our religions.
Fanny Lebura Ueh
Premium Member
Posts: 9
Joined: February 15th, 2024, 12:57 am

Re: Is it too hard to exclude religious references from discussions about consciousness?

Post by Fanny Lebura Ueh »

I do not think it is too hard; it is dependent on where the logic is drawn from at that point. In a world where a lot of humans work to draw logical links from non-religious contexts, then it definitely wouldn't be difficult.
Amarachi Nwogo
Premium Member
Posts: 11
Joined: February 27th, 2024, 5:42 am

Re: Is it too hard to exclude religious references from discussions about consciousness?

Post by Amarachi Nwogo »

I think it is hard because most of people's beliefs about consciousness are based on religious views.
User avatar
Sushan
Book of the Month Discussion Leader
Posts: 2258
Joined: February 19th, 2021, 8:12 pm
Contact:

Re: Is it too hard to exclude religious references from discussions about consciousness?

Post by Sushan »

Hella Layot wrote: March 3rd, 2024, 10:37 am I struggled to conceptualize consciousness without incorporating religion while reading the book. Religion and faith are a large part of my life and shape how I view the world and existence. I appreciated how Hughes allowed space for readers to interpret his theories through their unique worldviews. For some readers, it may have been impossible to consider religion a part of consciousness. That is the beauty of individuality.
It's compelling how you, and likely many others, find it challenging to separate the fabric of your religious beliefs from the concept of consciousness. This intertwining underscores the profound impact of our spiritual or religious upbringing on our perception of consciousness, suggesting that for many, these aspects are not merely interconnected but perhaps inseparable.

The point you raised about the impossibility for some readers to consider religion apart (I took 'a part' as a mistake. Please correct me if I am wrong) from consciousness resonates with the broader debate on the nature of consciousness itself. It echoes scholars like William James, who suggested that religious experiences could illuminate aspects of human consciousness inaccessible through other means. Similarly, Carl Jung's exploration of the collective unconscious often ventured into realms that could be deemed spiritual or religious, suggesting a deep-seated connection between our innermost psychological constructs and the mystical or divine.

To what extent does our individual background—be it religious, secular, or otherwise—shape our understanding of consciousness? And conversely, how does our concept of consciousness influence our approach to religion and spirituality?
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
Post Reply

Return to “Discuss "In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All" by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes”

2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

Launchpad Republic: America's Entrepreneurial Edge and Why It Matters

Launchpad Republic: America's Entrepreneurial Edge and Why It Matters
by Howard Wolk
July 2024

Quest: Finding Freddie: Reflections from the Other Side

Quest: Finding Freddie: Reflections from the Other Side
by Thomas Richard Spradlin
June 2024

Neither Safe Nor Effective

Neither Safe Nor Effective
by Dr. Colleen Huber
May 2024

Now or Never

Now or Never
by Mary Wasche
April 2024

Meditations

Meditations
by Marcus Aurelius
March 2024

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

The In-Between: Life in the Micro

The In-Between: Life in the Micro
by Christian Espinosa
January 2024

2023 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021