Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[Eckhart Aurelius Hughes]

Followup to:

Q&A: "How do parents deal with their kids' anger management issues?"

You wrote that because you value your inner peace (a.k.a. happiness) so deeply, you do your best to be as un-motivated as humanly possible and to have as little desire as humanly possible. However, I don't understand that, especially in regard to your relationship to your kids. If you were un-motivated, wouldn't you let your kids grow up without any parental guidance?

What is your approach to raising children, especially keeping in mind the eleven suggestions at the end of your book?

How can I help my 12-year-old child develop invincible inner peace and spiritual freedom?

Hi Scott,

You are a good father who spends time with your children, from what I've seen in your posts and other ways of sharing information, e.g. answers to questions on this forum. I've seen that you believe the best way to teach and influence your kids, is to set a good example, and I wholeheartedly agree with that. However, kids will be kids and they will test their boundaries, perhaps not in the big things, e.g. drug abuse, but in the little things, e.g., keeping their rooms tidy. Do you discipline them if such scenarios occur, and if so, how?

Kinds regards
Alida Spies

Hi, Alida Spies,

Great question!

If we were in-person having a back-and-forth, I'd ask you two questions:

#1 -- Why is cleaning their room a boundary? In other words, why is the child not cleaning their own room an instance of them crossing or pushing a boundary?

#2 -- What do you mean by "discipline them" exactly?


I suspect that before the child decides to keep their room tidy or not the disciplining or lack thereof has already been done, or at least started.

For instance, you would need to first go to your child in one way or another and say something like, "You must keep your room clean! That is a boundary I am setting! If you don't keep your room clean, you are naughty, and I'll do XYZ to you as punishment!"

More than 99 times out of 100, when there's a hypothetical situation like that, I'd never set that boundary in the first place.

I do have some boundaries with my kids (and others). For instance, they are not going to mess up my bedroom. If my kids went into my bedroom without my permission, used my stuff, and made a big mess in my room, I'd probably react about the same as I would if one of my so-called friends did that or if my brother or sister did that, or if some neighbor I barely know did that.

Likewise, for the most part, if my kids live in a trashy gross room that smells bad, I would react about the same way as if my neighbor across that street had a messy house, or if my adult sister or adult brother didn't keep the inside of tier house clean.

If they are a friend (or my kid), I'd peacefully communicate to them, especially if it was not just their room/house but their body and hygiene. I might say something like, "You smell. I love you, and I'm not being mean. I'm telling you as a courtesy. If I had spinach in my teeth, whether proverbially or literally, I'd want someone to tell me. If my fly is down, I want someone to tell me. So, out of love and kindness, I'm tell you that you smell, and if you don't fix that people aren't going to want to be around you, you'll never get dates, and frankly I won't drive you anywhere because I don't want a smelly person in my car."

I don't need to "discipline" my friends, siblings, neighbors, or my kids.

And if I want them to learn self-discipline, disciplining them would almost always be counter-productive. It would literally teach and train them towards the exact opposite of self-discipline.

Nonetheless, in a manner of speaking, what I can and definitely often do both with my kids and others is let them suffer and be disciplined by the natural consequence of their habits and behaviors.

I don't think I've ever once cleaned my kids rooms for them.

They have been doing their own laundry since they were about 5 years old.

My daughter has been getting up early, getting ready for school, and getting herself to school (either by walking or taking the bus) while I am still asleep since she was 10. Since she started 5th grade, she gets herself to school all on her own while I'm still asleep. I wake up and my kids are already at school.

I don't make them breakfast. I don't play human alarm clock. I don't give them a sponge bath.

I give them advice, which they are typically eager to get, take, and put into practice because I am so much wiser than them if not simply because I have 4x as much experience on this Earth than them.

So, the bottom line short answer is this: Since I generally don't set boundaries with my kids that are different than what I would set for any adult roommate or adult sibling or adult neighbor, when they do violate a boundary I've set (e.g. trespass in my bedroom against my will and make a mess in my bedroom or attempt to do literal violence against me or someone I love), I respond the same way I respond when one of those adults does those things (e.g. an adult roommate or sibling or neighbor.

Thanks to all the time, energy, and resources I save by not trespassing on my neighbor's proverbial backyard and not cleaning my neighbor's backyard, I have an almost unfathomable reservoir of energy and wherewithal to defend my boundaries when they are tested or crossed, which in turn causes them to not be crossed (since people are rightfully afraid to test or cross them), which thereby saves me even more energy, time, and resources to rain down on the rare fool who would test or cross my boundaries.

I am extremely stingy when it comes to choosing my battles, but, thus, when I do choose a battle, I have my whole proverbial army. I'll come at a would-be intruder or trespasser with almost god-like wrath.

And my kids live with that.

So they have learn not only self-discipline, but also how to respect the boundaries of others, what can happen if they don't, and, most importantly, by being a role model of that I show them how to enforce their boundaries when others test them.

I want my kids to learn how to be extremely assertive (like me), and the way to teach them that (like everything) is by role modeling it for them.

By being extremely assertive with them--but not at all aggressive--I teach them how to be extremely assertive--but not aggressive.

By being a wise assertive friend for them, who is brutally honest, such as by telling them when they smell bad or have spinach in their teeth, I teach them how to be that kind of friend to others and to themselves.


With love,
Eckhart Aurelius Hughes

[Priya Murugesan]

"And if I want them to learn self-discipline, disciplining them would almost always be counter-productive. It would literally teach and train them towards the exact opposite of self-discipline."

Exactly right!