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Intelligence Gaps

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LuckyR
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Re: Intelligence Gaps

Post by LuckyR » October 31st, 2019, 3:57 pm

This thread is suffering recently from a lack of accurate description. For example, while a casual stroll through any penal institution would demonstrate a statistical correlation between "crime" and the less intellectual, such lazy data acquisition leads to lazy and inaccurate conclusions. For example the penal system does not count folks bright enough to lie, cheat and steal legally. In fact the justice system will catch some of the non-criminally prone who perform property crime out of financial necessity.

Sociopathy is much, much more correlated with the tendency to not take into account laws and cultural norms of "good" behavior, than intellect does. And I am unaware of any correlation between sociopathy and intellect.
"As usual... it depends."

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Sculptor1
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Re: Intelligence Gaps

Post by Sculptor1 » October 31st, 2019, 6:14 pm

LuckyR wrote:
October 31st, 2019, 3:57 pm
This thread is suffering recently from a lack of accurate description. For example, while a casual stroll through any penal institution would demonstrate a statistical correlation between "crime" and the less intellectual, such lazy data acquisition leads to lazy and inaccurate conclusions. For example the penal system does not count folks bright enough to lie, cheat and steal legally. In fact the justice system will catch some of the non-criminally prone who perform property crime out of financial necessity.

Sociopathy is much, much more correlated with the tendency to not take into account laws and cultural norms of "good" behavior, than intellect does. And I am unaware of any correlation between sociopathy and intellect.
The correlation is not necessarily between crime and intellect; it is between policing and social class.
Since the rich have the power, policing tends to concentrate on poverty stricken neighbourhoods.
The lawyer and stock broker are free to snort as much coke as they can shove up their noses whilst they short the economy with absolutely no worry about being caught.

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LuckyR
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Re: Intelligence Gaps

Post by LuckyR » November 1st, 2019, 1:06 am

Sculptor1 wrote:
October 31st, 2019, 6:14 pm
LuckyR wrote:
October 31st, 2019, 3:57 pm
This thread is suffering recently from a lack of accurate description. For example, while a casual stroll through any penal institution would demonstrate a statistical correlation between "crime" and the less intellectual, such lazy data acquisition leads to lazy and inaccurate conclusions. For example the penal system does not count folks bright enough to lie, cheat and steal legally. In fact the justice system will catch some of the non-criminally prone who perform property crime out of financial necessity.

Sociopathy is much, much more correlated with the tendency to not take into account laws and cultural norms of "good" behavior, than intellect does. And I am unaware of any correlation between sociopathy and intellect.
The correlation is not necessarily between crime and intellect; it is between policing and social class.
Since the rich have the power, policing tends to concentrate on poverty stricken neighbourhoods.
The lawyer and stock broker are free to snort as much coke as they can shove up their noses whilst they short the economy with absolutely no worry about being caught.
Examples that make my point
"As usual... it depends."

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Sculptor1
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Re: Intelligence Gaps

Post by Sculptor1 » November 1st, 2019, 9:00 am

LuckyR wrote:
November 1st, 2019, 1:06 am
Sculptor1 wrote:
October 31st, 2019, 6:14 pm


The correlation is not necessarily between crime and intellect; it is between policing and social class.
Since the rich have the power, policing tends to concentrate on poverty stricken neighbourhoods.
The lawyer and stock broker are free to snort as much coke as they can shove up their noses whilst they short the economy with absolutely no worry about being caught.
Examples that make my point
I think you might want to go back to school to learn to read.

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Sculptor1
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Re: Intelligence Gaps

Post by Sculptor1 » November 1st, 2019, 9:01 am

Sculptor1 wrote:
November 1st, 2019, 9:00 am
LuckyR wrote:
November 1st, 2019, 1:06 am


Examples that make my point
I think you might want to go back to school to learn to read.
No. That would be ME!!!
OOps

Haicoway
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Re: Intelligence Gaps

Post by Haicoway » November 1st, 2019, 9:14 am

The point of less intelligent people being preyed upon more by police is a good one.

I would take sociopathy out of the discussion, though, as sociopaths make up only about 1% of the population. Maybe a little more.

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LuckyR
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Re: Intelligence Gaps

Post by LuckyR » November 1st, 2019, 2:13 pm

Haicoway wrote:
November 1st, 2019, 9:14 am
The point of less intelligent people being preyed upon more by police is a good one.

I would take sociopathy out of the discussion, though, as sociopaths make up only about 1% of the population. Maybe a little more.
Uuummm... not so much. While they make up 3% of males and 1% of females, they make up about 25% of the incarcerated. As mentioned before, the intelligent sociopaths are likely not counted among the incarcerated, yet are wreaking havoc in the community.
"As usual... it depends."

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chewybrian
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Re: Intelligence Gaps

Post by chewybrian » November 2nd, 2019, 9:41 pm

Jklint wrote:
October 27th, 2019, 4:21 pm
"A benevolent autocracy"!? If it's so benevolent why all the violent protests in Hong Kong? Why would so many want to leave China if they had the means. Why are we inundated with Chinese in the West? Why the government's extreme paranoia of near total surveillance forced on society, etc.?
Why the protests? Because they know exactly what they are up against. They have experienced life in China, or had direct contact with people who have, yet they are free to speak the truth (more or less, for now...). America does have its problems, but at least there are freedoms and checks and balances. Those poor folks in Hong Kong are trying to take advantage of the freedoms they still have before they get sucked into the 1984 vortex. I don't imagine many in Hong Kong, who have much better insight, would prefer life in China to the U.S..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/id ... dden_camps
The BBC has conducted lengthy interviews with eight Uighurs living overseas.

Their testimonies are remarkably consistent, providing evidence of the conditions and routines inside the camps and the broad basis on which people are detained.

Mainstream religious activity, the mildest dissent and any link with Uighurs living in foreign countries appear to be enough to sweep people into the system.

Each morning, when 29-year-old Ablet Tursun Tohti was woken an hour before sunrise, he and his fellow detainees had one minute to get to the exercise yard.

After lining up, they were made to run.

“There was a special room to punish those who didn't run fast enough,” Ablet says. “There were two men there, one to beat with a belt, the other just to kick.”

Over the past two years there are very few reports of anyone being released at all.

And since there has now been a mass recall of passports, Ablet was one of the last Uighurs able to leave China.

He has sought refuge in Turkey, a country with a sizeable Uighur diaspora because of strong cultural and linguistic links.

Ablet tells me that his 74-year-old father and eight of his siblings are in the camps. “There is no-one left outside,” he says.
"If determinism holds, then past events have conspired to cause me to hold this view--it is out of my control. Either I am right about free will, or it is not my fault that I am wrong."

Haicoway
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Re: Intelligence Gaps

Post by Haicoway » November 3rd, 2019, 9:45 am

Just to be clear, I would prefer a democracy over every other form of government, if it could work in perpetuity. I spoke about a benevolent dictatorship solely in the context of trying to think of any possible way to stop population growth, which I believe will destroy most of civilization as we enjoy it now. In democracies, people are permitted to have as many children as they like.

People won’t disappear, it is just that many more billions will be living under the conditions of violence, squalor, dire health, and lack of potable water, which about two billion people are already suffering.

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chewybrian
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Re: Intelligence Gaps

Post by chewybrian » November 3rd, 2019, 10:35 am

Haicoway wrote:
November 3rd, 2019, 9:45 am
Just to be clear, I would prefer a democracy over every other form of government, if it could work in perpetuity. I spoke about a benevolent dictatorship solely in the context of trying to think of any possible way to stop population growth, which I believe will destroy most of civilization as we enjoy it now. In democracies, people are permitted to have as many children as they like.

People won’t disappear, it is just that many more billions will be living under the conditions of violence, squalor, dire health, and lack of potable water, which about two billion people are already suffering.
Image

https://www.stlouisfed.org/on-the-econo ... ity-income

But, permission does not lead to the increase in birth rates you assume it does. You've got it backwards. Birth rates in the U.S. and Europe are at manageable levels. If those levels spread to the rest of the world, we would not have a population problem. As income rises, birth rates fall. It is only BS politics that keep us from feeding and providing basic health care and housing and a modest wage for the entire population of the world. If we did this, they would have access to birth control, and an economic incentive to keep the size of their families manageable for their own self interest. We do not need the state forcing abortions on people or enforcing harsh penalties for births as China had in place until very recently.

"Benevolent dictatorship" is the problem, not the answer. Democracy with checks and balances is about the best we could ever hope for, and only those denied it seem to appreciate this.
"If determinism holds, then past events have conspired to cause me to hold this view--it is out of my control. Either I am right about free will, or it is not my fault that I am wrong."

Jklint
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Re: Intelligence Gaps

Post by Jklint » November 3rd, 2019, 4:14 pm

chewybrian wrote:
November 3rd, 2019, 10:35 am
"Benevolent dictatorship" is the problem, not the answer. Democracy with checks and balances is about the best we could ever hope for, and only those denied it seem to appreciate this.
There is no denying it and because it's true there would be many more coming to western shores if allowed or able to. The West is now the Noah's ark that those desperate to escape swim toward.

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