Buddha kept silent about God indicating that God is unimaginable

Chat about anything your heart desires here, just be civil. Factual or scientific questions about philosophy go here (e.g. "When was Socrates born?"), and so most homework help questions belong here. Note, posts in the off-topic section will not increase new members post counts. This includes the introductions and feedback sections.
Post Reply
dattaswami
Banned
Posts: 142
Joined: October 15th, 2008, 9:56 am

Buddha kept silent about God indicating that God is unimaginable

Post by dattaswami »

CREATION IS UNREAL ONLY FOR ITS CREATOR

Buddha kept silent about God indicating that God is unimaginable. This means that the existence of God is accepted but the imaginable possibility is not accepted. But, the followers of Buddha took that the existence of God is also not accepted. The reason is that anything exists if it is imaginable only. That which is unimaginable does not exist. This is the norm of the psychology of general public. Buddha also propagated that the creation does not exist with respect to God. Therefore, the followers of Buddha have taken that neither God nor the creation exists. This resulted in Shunyavada, which means that nothing exists. This is the result of misunderstanding of Buddha and the result is misinterpretation.

When Shankara came, this was the situation and every one became an atheist of extreme nature. Generally, atheist negates the existence of God but not the existence of the creation. The followers of Buddha are extreme because not only God but also the creation is negated. The followers of Shankara accept the existence of God but negate the existence of creation. The atheists are vice-versa, who accept the existence of creation but negate the existence of God. The followers of Buddha negate the existence of both God and creation. The followers of Ramanuja and Madhva accept the existence of both God and creation. Thus, there are four categories:

The followers of Buddha negate both God and creation
The atheists negate God but accept creation
The followers of Shankara accept God but negate creation
The followers of Ramanuja and Madhva accept both God and creation

Neither Buddha nor Shankara nor Ramanuja and Madhva misunderstood truth. But, their followers and atheists have misunderstood truth and misinterpreted truth. The truth is that God exists but is unimaginable. The creation does not exist with respect to God but exists with respect to the souls. The soul can not negate the existence of the world because it is a part and parcel of the world. If the soul negates the world it negates itself, which is meaningless.

Therefore, you cannot give a single statement about the existence of the world. You cannot demand us to say whether the world exists or does not exist. A single angle is impossible in the case of creation. You cannot conclude about the existence or non-existence of the world. Such a situation is represented by Mithya, which means neither it is existent nor non-existent. It is a special case. This is the concept of Shankara about the world (Sadasat Vilakshana).

This is the concept of Buddha, Ramanuja and Madhva also because all these four are incarnations of the same God. The total concept is known to all the four incarnations. But according to the then existing situation, a convenient part of the concept is stressed. This does not mean that the other part of the concept is negated. The silence about the other part of the concept is due to the requirement of the then existing situation. If the total concept is stressed, people may not digest. Therefore, based on the relevant requirement, the relevant part is only stressed.

This mechanism is called as psychology, which must be followed by the teacher. This serves the purpose and the first generation of the followers were always rectified. But, the other generations of the followers of the same school always misunderstand due to the absence of the original preacher of the school. To clarify the misunderstanding, God appears again and again. This process is continuous and God also gets the opportunity of continuous engagement.

When Shankara came, the Buddhists negated both God and world. The immediate requirement was to establish the existence of God. The reason is that there is no dual possibility regarding the existence of God. God always exists. But, the world has the dual possibility. In one sense, with respect to God, world does not exist and the same world exists with respect to soul in other sense. Therefore, even if the existence of world is denied, it is correct with respect to God. But, the existence of God should not be negated in any sense. Therefore, Shankara accepted the non existence of the world and in such case it must be with respect to God. Shankara never touched the angle of souls here.

If the world is unreal, there must be somebody to realize the absence of this world. That somebody must be God only because the world is unreal for God only. Therefore, the awareness of God only is referred by Shankara and not the awareness of the soul in this context. Awareness is only a property and is not an independent object. Therefore, awareness does not mean soul since soul is an independent object.

Awareness is the possibility or capability or the process of knowing. A king and beggar see the rising sun and know that it is the rising sun. Since, both are aware of sun, both are not one and the same. Awareness is a common property of both king and beggar. Similarly, God and soul have the awareness. You say that awareness is soul and therefore, soul is God. Then, you have to say that awareness is beggar and therefore, the king is beggar. King and beggar are the two independent entities.

Awareness is a dependable property of both king and beggar. Shankara feared that the soul may misunderstand that it is God and therefore, consequently may think that the world is unreal. If the soul is God and if the world is unreal to the soul, Shankara must have maintained one angle only and might have told that the world is unreal (Asat). But, Shankara told that world is neither real nor unreal in single angle since, it is real in one angle and is unreal in another angle.

Therefore, He stated that the world is both real and unreal or neither real nor unreal since it is real in one angle and unreal in another angle. Both these angles are referred by Him as Paramartha dasha and Vyavahara dasha. The first stands for the angle of God and the second stands for the angle of the soul. The world is called as Maayaa, which means both wonderful (Maya- Vychitrye) and non-existent (Yaa Maa Saa Maayaa). For the soul, the world is wonderful and for God, it is non-existent.

All the above mentioned four categories are partially wrong and partially correct. Even the atheists are partially correct because the world is true for the soul. This aspect should never be forgotten by the soul because it is a practical experience. A walking human being is always obstructed by a wall since the wall is always real. The human incarnation like Shankara may pass through bolted doors of the house of Mandana Mishra because God is identified with the human being in that case and such context becomes the angle of God in which the wall is proved to be unreal.

But, by this aspect alone you should not decide the human incarnation since a demon like Ravana can also pass through the wall. Both Krishna and Ravana can pass through the wall. But, Krishna alone can preach the Gita and not Ravana. You can understand the difference if you can understand the statement “all gentlemen are human beings but all human beings are not gentlemen”.

The soul should never think that the world is unreal. In such case, the soul itself becomes unreal since it is part and parcel of the world. The entire world including the soul is unreal to God but the unreal world cannot be unreal for the unreal soul. Unreal for unreal is always real. The God is always unimaginable and the soul can never catch God. If the soul thinks that the world is also unreal, then everything becomes zero including itself. The real God is grasped by the soul when the real God identifies Himself with a part of this real world. Such part is the human being and such part is called as Human incarnation. The reality of the world is indicated by the respect given to the Divine Mother by Shankara and Ramakrishna Paramahamsa.

If the world is real, you can have real entertainment in this real world. You can also approach the unimaginable God through this real creation only. You can attain worldly pleasures and also the grace of unimaginable God through the reality of the creation only, which is the devotion to the Divine Mother. The aspect of unreality of the creation to God is always unnecessary and irrelevant to the soul at anytime because the soul is never transformed in to God even in the case of human incarnation.

You may take wire as current as long as current passes in it, but the wire is never transformed in to current. However, this point should not mislead you to disregard the human incarnation since the electrified wire is electricity for all practical purposes. The Veda says that there is no other way than this to approach the unimaginable God (Nanyah Panthah…). The behavior of father towards mother should never be imitated by the son. The father may scold the mother but the son should always respect the mother. His relationship to her is quite different from your relationship to her. For Him, she is unreal, but for you she is real. You must always respect her.

Now I compose a verse on the Divine Mother for the sake of the worship of the Divine Mother, so that we can get some real entertainment with real objects in this real world, which is called as ‘Eihika’ and also the grace of unimaginable God through this real world only because a part of this real world becomes Human Incarnation for the approach and worship towards the unimaginable God, which is called as ‘Amushmika’.

Aartim Chindi manobhayam hara mahamaayee jaganmaatrukee

Praaptam vaardhakamaartimulamadhunaa chintaakaram santatam

Tvayyaamushmika maihikamcha kalayee Brahmaatmikohyaat paraa

Drushyaa panchavibhutibhutavapushaa sarvam madambaavasham.

Meaning: Oh! Divine Mother! Oh! Mahaa Mayaa! Oh! Mother of the world! Crash my suffering. Remove the fear of my mind. Now I have got this old age, which is the source of all sufferings and which always gives tensions. I find both the worldly fruit and the salvation fruit in you only. In the Human Incarnation the internal soul is the unimaginable God, Who is perceived through the human form only. This human form is a part of the visible world only. The worldly pleasures are derived from the visible worldly objects only and such world is your external body. Therefore, both super natural and natural fruits are in the control of My Divine Mother only.
value
Premium Member
Posts: 750
Joined: December 11th, 2019, 9:18 am

Re: Buddha kept silent about God indicating that God is unimaginable

Post by value »

Very interesting to see the reasoning within Buddhism with regard the existence of the world. It seems that its nature is philosophical.

With regard the argument that God (the origin of the cosmos) is 'unimaginable' and that only that which is imaginable 'exists'. At question is whether that argument would be valid.

Whatever exists will require an origin thus it is certain that God (as origin of the cosmos) cannot be said to 'exist'. However, that does not exclude plausible philosophical consideration and exploration.

Albert Einstein once wrote the following prophecy about the exploration of an 'other' world of meaning beyond the scope of science.

Perhaps... we must also give up, by principle, the space-time continuum,” he wrote. “It is not unimaginable that human ingenuity will some day find methods which will make it possible to proceed along such a path. At the present time, however, such a program looks like an attempt to breathe in empty space.

Within Western philosophy, the realm beyond space has traditionally been considered a realm beyond physics — the plane of God’s existence in Christian theology. In the early eighteenth century, philosopher Gottfried Leibniz’s “monads” — which he imagined to be the primitive elements of the universe — existed, like God, outside space and time. His theory was a step toward emergent space-time, but it was still metaphysical, with only a vague connection to the world of concrete things.


So it is prophesized that humans will discover a philosophical method to explore a (relevant to existence) area that lays outside of the boundaries of 'existence'.
dattaswami
Banned
Posts: 142
Joined: October 15th, 2008, 9:56 am

Re: Buddha kept silent about God indicating that God is unimaginable

Post by dattaswami »

value wrote: November 28th, 2022, 3:22 pm

So it is prophesized that humans will discover a philosophical method to explore a (relevant to existence) area that lays outside of the boundaries of 'existence'.
Today, the logical analysis is not only sharp but also steady due to experimental verification of every concept. The receiving nature of the people is quite stable due to the scientific analysis. People are not fast in applying the theoretical tautology to arrive at hasty conclusions. In view of the stability of the phase of intelligence, the projection of the real unimaginable nature of God will not face the danger of non-existence. The scientist may not believe any miracle and may say that nothing is unimaginable. But the scientist must accept the unimaginable boundary of the universe.


The scientist may argue like this:- “When the universe is imaginable made of imaginable cosmic energy as the fundamental cause, how can you say that the boundary of the universe is unimaginable? Just like the ocean is water, the boundary of the ocean must be also be the same water. Hence, the boundary of the imaginable universe must be also imaginable”. This type of argument is not acceptable if you analyze the subtle point of the boundary.
When you reach the edge of the ocean and stand on it, you must find water on one side and the land, which is not water on the other side.

The knowledge of both water and land is necessary to fix the boundary of the ocean. Land is not water. If land is also water, then the boundary of the ocean is not achieved. Similarly, when you reach the boundary of the imaginable universe, you must perceive the imaginable nature of the universe on one side and the unimaginable nature on the other side. If the unimaginable nature is also imaginable, then the boundary of imaginable nature is not achieved.
When the unimaginable nature cannot be imagined by your intelligence, it means you have never reached the boundary of the imaginable universe. Unless you perceive both imaginable and unimaginable natures, the boundary of the imaginable nature is not achieved. Hence the boundary of the universe is always unimaginable from the other side. Some scientists say that the diameter of the universe is 200 billion light years.


Another scientist laughed at this by asking that if he travels all this diameter and reach the compound wall of universe, what is present beyond such compound wall? One scientist says that the universe is constantly expanding! This is again a laughable concept since it finally means that you can never achieve the boundary of the universe. Hence, by all means the scientist has to accept the existence of the unimaginable entity, which is the other side of the boundary of the universe. It is not the boundary if the other side is not achieved. The scientist has stable and steady intelligence to realize the truth in this argument unlike a theoretical ancient tautologist. The unimaginable item, which is beyond the boundary of this imaginable universe is called as God.
When this universe is projected from God, you will touch God on reaching the edge of the universe.


You can never touch God since He is unimaginable. It means that you can never reach the boundary of this universe. Today this fundamental concept is revealed due to confidence on the stable and steady analytical faculty of real scientists. Ofcourse, foolish conservative scientists also exist even today in small number and this is inevitable at any time. Moreover, today there is lot of demand for the revelation of this basic concept in view of the violent terrorism that arose from the differences between the religions.

Even the scientific theory like constant expansion of universe tells us that the space is not inherently infinite, but, becomes relatively infinite as your mind travels through it to touch its boundary.

This means that the space is not really infinite by itself, but, relatively infinite and expands continuously before your mind reaches its boundary. The conclusion is that the boundary of the space can never be touched by your mind since the space continuously expands before your mind reaches the boundary. The constant expansion of space indicates the main point that boundary of space, which is the unimaginable God, can never be reached by your mind (Apraapya Manasaa saha– Veda, Naantosti – Gita). This is the absolute point and the relative point is that the space is constantly expanding ahead [of] your mind. You must establish the spiritual knowledge on this basic foundation, which is that the absolute God is unimaginable. All the other concepts should be built like castles on this strong foundation.

Take the case of a stream of smoke coming from the fire. If you travel in the smoke, after some time, you can touch the fire. The stream of the smoke is finite because on reaching the boundary of the smoke, you can touch the imaginable fire. On contrary, you cannot reach the boundary of smoke (space) if the fire (God) is unimaginable. Hence, the finite or infinity of the space depends on the imaginable or unimaginable nature of God respectively. The infinity of space is not its characteristic, but, is due to the unimaginable nature of its generator, the God.

The constant expansion of the universe also speaks the same. As you travel along the universe, it expands so that you cannot reach its boundary and touch the unimaginable God. By this, the constant expansion is again relatively justified i.e., with respect to the unimaginable God. The constant expansion is not the absolute phenomenon of the universe, but, it is a relative phenomenon since the aim of the expansion is only to see that you should not touch the boundary of universe or God.

The space cannot exist in God since the product(space) cannot exist in its cause(God) before its generation. If the space exists in God even before its generation, it means the generation of space becomes meaningless. Anything is said to be generated, if it is absent before its generation. This means that the space and hence, the spatial dimensions do not exist in God and hence can never be imagined. The unimaginable nature is, thus, justified.

The unimaginable God proves Himself by performing unimaginable events called miracles. You cannot discard a genuine miracle as magic. Even if you discard miracles, the infinite space with unimaginable boundary stands as the solid proof for the concept of existence of unimaginable nature indicating the existence of unimaginable God.

The bending of space along the boundary of object proves that space is something (subtle energy) and not nothing. Hence, generation of space becomes a logical concept since something can be only generated and nothing cannot be generated.
Xenophon
Posts: 92
Joined: January 6th, 2024, 5:21 am

Re: Buddha kept silent about God indicating that God is unimaginable

Post by Xenophon »

I used to be a Buddhist. I even did a three-month stint at a Thai wat some whiles back. (My Thai was then-passable.) I don't recall ever being schooled that the God notion was so much unacceptable as it was irrelevant to the issue the Dharma addresses.
"Mankind has no destiny. Only some men do: to recover lost divinity."---Miguel Serrano
Post Reply

Return to “Philosophers' Lounge”

2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021