What is loneliness exactly?

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Boots
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Re: What is loneliness exactly?

Post by Boots »

Above us only sky wrote:
Boots wrote:
An introvert does not have many friends because that is what they need, few friends and a lot of alone time. But, they still need some human connections. Usually deeper and more intimate than what extroverts require.


You are so right. But I want to add because an introvert have much less social contact with people than extroverts, an introvert is usually a little bit “socially retarded” comparing to an extrovert, but an introvert usually is more thoughtful, more sentimental, more blunt and more sincere, therefore the introverts can hurt people while getting hurt badly.
Belinda wrote:I guess it was meant as a useful pep-talk, Misty.

I 'm very thankful for this, Belinda, I may change my mind and start looking for a girlfriend, however finding a girlfriend for me is currently not a priority, as for marriage, I hate this very worldly, very bourgeoisie concept of "marriage".

As for having children, I don't understand exactly why people want to have children, I consider it mad. To have children means to force another soul to enter this world and go though more or less what the parents went through.

-- Updated May 17th, 2016, 5:46 am to add the following --
Misty wrote:It seems envy is the issue and not the accomplishment of the friend. If I were jealous/envious in this situation I
would just say congratulations on your accomplishment and let it go. Offering a friend a fake compliment because of
ones own envy makes me question if one is a true friend in the first place.
It can be a little blured and mixed. For you, you and your friend are still good friends, you still care about this friend, you still want to go shopping, go to the park and watch movies with this friend, but at the same time you feel resentful about the fact that your friend, a lazy person in school get into college mostly because his resources while at the same time no matter how hardworking you are.
I think you are pigeon-holing introverts. Introverts, like extroverts, come in all flavors. Some may be as you suggest, but others are mindless and insincere...they run the gamut.
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Ormond
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Re: What is loneliness exactly?

Post by Ormond »

Misty wrote:Above Us Only Sky said in post #52: "And the thing is I really don't want a girlfriend." Don't you believe he knows whether or not he wants a girlfriend?
As best I can tell, he doesn't have enough experience to know what he wants or doesn't want in the romance department.
It seems extremely selfish for a man or woman to ask and accept that another person should give up their own dreams just to be with them.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but weren't you the poster demanding that men give up their dreams of sexual variety just a thread or two ago??
If the things we want to hear could take us where we want to go, we'd already be there.
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Misty
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Re: What is loneliness exactly?

Post by Misty »

[quote="Ormond
It seems extremely selfish for a man or woman to ask and accept that another person should give up their own dreams just to be with them.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but weren't you the poster demanding that men give up their dreams of sexual variety just a thread or two ago??[/quote]

There are thousands of threads on this forum, please point me to the one you mention here.

-- Updated Wed May 18, 2016 5:25 am to add the following --
Misty wrote:
Ormond wrote:

"My wife gave up children to marry me. She would have given up marriage to be with me. There are plenty of women out there who will do the same for you"


Did your wife give up existing children or her dream of having children? What did you give up for her?

Ormond you have not answered these questions.
Things are not always as they appear; it's a matter of perception.

The eyes can only see what the mind has, is, or will be prepared to comprehend.

I am Lion, hear me ROAR! Meow.
Belinda
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Re: What is loneliness exactly?

Post by Belinda »

Misty, a few posts ago you asked me a question. Here's my answer.

Sacrifice means nothing unless there be something to sacrifice. A man or woman who lacks any character cannot therefore sacrifice their character to their spouse's or their children's needs.

This works both ways. When the husband is considered to be godlike and the woman characterless then we have something like ISIS, or Saudi Arabia. When the husband is considered to be the one with no character and the woman his spouse is the boss then we have matriarchy which intrudes into private lives.

There is a much nicer third alternative which is that each spouse, or each friend, has something characterful to sacrifice when the need for sacrifice arises.
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Ormond
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Re: What is loneliness exactly?

Post by Ormond »

Misty wrote:There are thousands of threads on this forum, please point me to the one you mention here.
Please find it yourself, I'm sure you remember it.

You've dodged this, so my answer to your questions is, none of your business.
If the things we want to hear could take us where we want to go, we'd already be there.
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Misty
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Re: What is loneliness exactly?

Post by Misty »

Ormond wrote:
Misty wrote:There are thousands of threads on this forum, please point me to the one you mention here.
Please find it yourself, I'm sure you remember it.

You've dodged this, so my answer to your questions is, none of your business.

Ormond, I do not remember the post you mentioned. You are the one dodging questions. Why?
Things are not always as they appear; it's a matter of perception.

The eyes can only see what the mind has, is, or will be prepared to comprehend.

I am Lion, hear me ROAR! Meow.
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Ormond
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Re: What is loneliness exactly?

Post by Ormond »

Well ok Misty, so let's see if my impression is correct. It may not be. I got my impression of your perspective from the Sex Drive thread...

http://onlinephilosophyclub.com/forums/ ... =1&t=12346

You said above in this thread...
"It seems extremely selfish for a man or woman to ask and accept that another person should give up their own dreams just to be with them. "
Do you believe a man should give up his dreams of sexual partner variety in order to be married? Is it "extremely selfish" for a woman to impose that condition upon a marriage?

As to dodging questions, your questions above are about the nature of my relationship with my wife. As a matter of principle, it seems one thing for me to volunteer selected information about that relationship, and another thing for you to DEMAND such information repeatedly.

But, no offense is taken, so let's move on. You asked...
Did your wife give up existing children or her dream of having children?
She gave up the option of having children. I'm not sure I'd call it a "dream" but it was surely an option she might have liked to explore. This was never a problem for us but in later years she did become an enthusiastic wildlife rehabber, another form of the mothering experience.
What did you give up for her?
All the other women in the world. Well, all those who would have had me, admittedly a significantly smaller group. :lol:
If the things we want to hear could take us where we want to go, we'd already be there.
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Misty
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Re: What is loneliness exactly?

Post by Misty »

Ormond wrote:Well ok Misty, so let's see if my impression is correct. It may not be. I got my impression of your perspective from the Sex Drive thread...

http://onlinephilosophyclub.com/forums/ ... =1&t=12346

You said above in this thread...
"It seems extremely selfish for a man or woman to ask and accept that another person should give up their own dreams just to be with them. "
Do you believe a man should give up his dreams of sexual partner variety in order to be married? Is it "extremely selfish" for a woman to impose that condition upon a marriage?

As to dodging questions, your questions above are about the nature of my relationship with my wife. As a matter of principle, it seems one thing for me to volunteer selected information about that relationship, and another thing for you to DEMAND such information repeatedly.

But, no offense is taken, so let's move on. You asked...
Did your wife give up existing children or her dream of having children?
She gave up the option of having children. I'm not sure I'd call it a "dream" but it was surely an option she might have liked to explore. This was never a problem for us but in later years she did become an enthusiastic wildlife rehabber, another form of the mothering experience.
What did you give up for her?
All the other women in the world. Well, all those who would have had me, admittedly a significantly smaller group. :lol:

My posts in Sex Drive are always to discuss fairness between the sexes.

I think a man or woman who wants fidelity in a relationship should seek out a person who also wants faithfulness.

Giving up existing children in order to be with a partner is completely different then opting to not have children to be with a partner.

My guess is it was not too much of a sacrifice. There are many women who do not want children.

You gave up other women? Did she give up other men? If so, you still owe her a forfeit! :wink:
Things are not always as they appear; it's a matter of perception.

The eyes can only see what the mind has, is, or will be prepared to comprehend.

I am Lion, hear me ROAR! Meow.
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Ormond
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Re: What is loneliness exactly?

Post by Ormond »

Misty,

Speaking of fairness, I answered your questions specifically in good faith, and now it's your turn to do the same.

1) Do you believe a man should give up his dreams of sexual partner variety in order to be married?

2) Is it "extremely selfish" for a woman to impose that condition upon a marriage?

If you dodge again you're going on my ignore list.
My posts in Sex Drive are always to discuss fairness between the sexes.
You mean like this??

Your words from the Sex Drive thread....
Is this why men are the biggest cheaters and always seem to be on the prowl even if they have a loving/willing partner available?
Who is it that you think the men are (mostly) cheating with? Aliens from another planet?
If the things we want to hear could take us where we want to go, we'd already be there.
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Misty
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Re: What is loneliness exactly?

Post by Misty »

Ormond wrote:Misty,

Speaking of fairness, I answered your questions specifically in good faith, and now it's your turn to do the same.

1) Do you believe a man should give up his dreams of sexual partner variety in order to be married?

2) Is it "extremely selfish" for a woman to impose that condition upon a marriage?

If you dodge again you're going on my ignore list.
My posts in Sex Drive are always to discuss fairness between the sexes.
You mean like this??

Your words from the Sex Drive thread....
Is this why men are the biggest cheaters and always seem to be on the prowl even if they have a loving/willing partner available?
Who is it that you think the men are (mostly) cheating with? Aliens from another planet?
Ormond,

First, I have no reason or desire to dodge questions.

You referred me to the topic Sex Drive, not a specific post. I would need to read the whole post to be able to answer you properly. I don't remember everything I write or the context for which it was written.

Q#1 - I answered this question in my previous post.

Q#2 - A woman should not impose a behavior on a man in order for him to marry her, she should seek a man who WANTS to be faithful to her, and visa versa.

Q#3 - Men and women both cheat with whomever they deem attractive - I am not sure why you asked this question.
Things are not always as they appear; it's a matter of perception.

The eyes can only see what the mind has, is, or will be prepared to comprehend.

I am Lion, hear me ROAR! Meow.
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Mark1955
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Re: What is loneliness exactly?

Post by Mark1955 »

Misty you said "A woman should not impose a behavior on a man in order for him to marry her, she should seek a man who WANTS to be faithful to her," what if no man truly wants to be faithful? Imagine men fake faithful like women fake orgasms, because they want to please their partner.
If you think you know the answer you probably don't understand the question.
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Alec Smart
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Re: What is loneliness exactly?

Post by Alec Smart »

Mark1955 wrote: Imagine men fake faithful
Is that another way of saying sleeping around and lying about it?
Smart by name and Alec by nature.
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Misty
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Re: What is loneliness exactly?

Post by Misty »

Mark1955 wrote:

Misty you said "A woman should not impose a behavior on a man in order for him to marry her, she should seek a man who WANTS to be faithful to her," what if no man truly wants to be faithful? Imagine men fake faithful like women fake orgasms, because they want to please their partner.
Maybe men and women want to be faithful but can't?

Why not please ones partner with real orgasms and real faithfulness?

"what if no man truly wants to be faithful?" This is probably the rule and not the exception, if not physically then mentally.

Why does our species keep trying to do the impossible? Why didn't we evolve to be free loving and totally loved and cared for by all?
Things are not always as they appear; it's a matter of perception.

The eyes can only see what the mind has, is, or will be prepared to comprehend.

I am Lion, hear me ROAR! Meow.
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LuckyR
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Re: What is loneliness exactly?

Post by LuckyR »

Bottom line is the number of people of either gender whose personalities are compatible with the traditional, faithful idea of marriage is a small subset of those who actually get married. Similarly, the number of people cut out to for parenthood is also a small subset of those who have kids.

In addition of those who seek marriage or children, they commonly do so before they can fulfill those job requirements well.

Unfortunately, Society pays the tab in the long haul.
"As usual... it depends."
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Ormond
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Re: What is loneliness exactly?

Post by Ormond »

Misty wrote:First, I have no reason or desire to dodge questions.
It must be the cheating aliens making you do it. Ok then, as you wish, on the ignore list you go. Have a nice day.

-- Updated May 18th, 2016, 7:15 pm to add the following --
Mark1955 wrote:Misty you said "A woman should not impose a behavior on a man in order for him to marry her, she should seek a man who WANTS to be faithful to her," what if no man truly wants to be faithful?
What Misty, and even many men perhaps, don't get is that no man truly wants to be faithful. Often the urge to wander is pushed down by centuries of manipulation by guilt, but it is still there, as evidenced by the incredible popularity of the porn industry.

This is not complicated. If we look at the female body, we see it is designed for having and caring for babies. If we look at the male body, we see it is designed for impregnating females.

These built-in behavior biases go back millions of years, and precede even our existence in human form. The reason that this subject is a seemingly eternal issue is that just underneath the thin veneer of social mores, men and women perform different biological functions.

As example, debate forums are typically dominated by men, who are typically all focused on outdoing each other. This is because men are designed to compete with other men, a biology based process whose function is to weed out weak genes. It's no different really than male longhorn sheep butting heads to determine who is the most fit to mate.

The point here is that the inherent conflict between the most fundamental interests of men and women can't be fixed with philosophies and moralizing guilt trips etc, because the conflict originates at a much deeper level. If the conflict could be resolved with moralism, it would have been resolved long ago, instead of being part of the story of every generation for thousands of years.

It seems to me that societies like the French have come to a sensible compromise between the inherent built-in interests of men and women. The man is expected to be respectful to his wife and a good provider to his children, and society in general and wives in particular look the other way while men have their sexual adventures in a hopefully discreet and dignified manner.

Please note the word compromise.

Compromise means that nobody gets exactly 100% what they want, but everybody gets most of what they want. An intelligent adult compromise which recognizes the built in inherent needs of both men and women is the best we can realistically hope for.

But of course, as humans who are usually neither very adult or intelligent, and who as a species seem to crave melodrama above all else, it's probably not that realistic to expect that a mature compromise will ever be fully reached.

The problem here is that those doing most of the dating and mating are mostly young, and still learning the ways of life from scratch. Older more experienced people have a very limited almost non-existent ability to pass on what they've learned about dating and mating to the next generation, and so such lessons typically have to be learned over and over again from scratch in each generation.

A novice older person such as myself can get frustrated watching each new generation endlessly repeat the mistakes of the past, but hopefully as such older people mature further they learn to accept the inevitable with a smile.
If the things we want to hear could take us where we want to go, we'd already be there.
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