Paid forum trolls

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Gee
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Re: Paid forum trolls

Post by Gee »

Terrapin Station wrote: June 24th, 2021, 7:15 am
Steve3007 wrote: June 23rd, 2021, 5:02 am Since he/she'll probably burn out and stop posting soon, I think it's interesting to consider the latest evolution/creation style poster. Asif. I say "evolution/creation style poster" as a shorthand for the class of poster whose most obvious common feature is that they see themselves as an intellectual free spirit, untroubled by what they see as the intellectual straight jacket of learning what other people think/thought about stuff. As our old friend who started off calling himself "creation", and changed to "evolution", did.

I wonder if there is a common motive which drives them? Is it just their perception that anybody who learns anything about anything accepts that thing unquestioningly? Does that perception simply come from not having a particular form of education themselves, and therefore assuming that that education is harder to come by than it really is, and therefore assuming that people who have it guard it jealously and look down on those who don't have it?

If so, it's interesting that only certain types of education are treated like this. It's a perception that people like Asif and evolution/creation tend to have about a subject like philosophy or some of the sciences, but probably wouldn't have about a different specialism like, say, plumbing.

Nobody, as far as I know, says: "You plumbers in your ivory towers think your[sic] so great, with your dogmas about 22mm copper piping and compression joints!..."
My main vocation is music (which you might remember). That's a common thing with some musicians, too. There's an aversion to musical education/lessons because somehow they think it will "teach the creativity out of them," or "teach out of them what makes them unique as musicians." I've never quite understood that attitude. To some extent I think it's simply fueled by being an excuse to be kind of lazy and not put in the hard work that they'll have to put in as a student. "I'm fine/happy doing what I'm doing, I don't need additional work/chores/etc."
I agree that there is a lot of "reasoning" as to why musical education is not worthwhile, but suspect that most of these reasons are because the people do not have access to it, or they are afraid of failing at it. University degrees can be expensive, and a degree in Philosophy or music does not necessarily make a person employable -- except maybe as a teacher.
Terrapin Station wrote: June 24th, 2021, 7:15 am But there also seems to be some sort of belief that education will change them and will iron out their quirks, as if it's designed to turn everyone into carbon copies of each other . . . I'm just not sure what the source of that is as such a strong belief.
I remember reading about Andrew Lloyd Webber, who did some time at University honing his craft. It was stated that his father advised him to quit the University because they had nothing more to teach him, and that they were beginning to stifle him. On the other hand, I am pretty certain that his father supported his education up to that point.

It should be considered that one does not generally get a top grade by disagreeing with his/her instructor. Much depends upon the quality of the school.

Gee
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Pattern-chaser
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Re: Paid forum trolls

Post by Pattern-chaser »

chewybrian wrote: June 23rd, 2021, 7:38 pm I don't know how we can judge the motives of such posters. They may sincerely believe they are on to something that most people can't see or don't want to see. Or, they may just want to create the impression that they know something important, but don't deem us worthy to learn the secret.
That is the impression I get. And then there is our new companion Skyblack, who posts, but will not discuss their posts with the unworthy.


chewybrian wrote: June 23rd, 2021, 7:38 pm That seems like a common tactic on a lot of boards to grab attention in that way, though it is much less common here, thankfully. It is tedious to even look at some of those threads, with the posturing and implied 'unspoken' wisdom, and a few poor souls taking the bait and getting abused for their efforts.
Yes, that's probably the worst part of all this. Those who try to take an understanding position, and try to engage in helpful discussion, get "abused for their efforts". No good deed goes unpunished, as they say.
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Pattern-chaser
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Re: Paid forum trolls

Post by Pattern-chaser »

chewybrian wrote: June 24th, 2021, 7:09 am My gut says that they are as likely as regular folks to learn the ideas without allowing the ideas to impact them...
I hope this isn't a derail, but this reminds me of something that has puzzled me about philosophers and philosophy forums. Only as an example, consider Objectivism and Analytic philosophy. People forcefully and thoughtfully argue these positions, but they also live real lives in the real world. And when they re-enter the real world, they seem to leave behind the principles and knowledge they post about. I don't want to focus too much on any one theme of philosophy, but isn't it the case that what we discuss here is real, and applies to the real world, not just the abstract and surreal world of philosophers and internet forums?

If we say, for example, that the reality of the world we think we see is uncertain, do we mean that in an abstract philosophical sense, or do we intend that it actually applies to our 'real' world? I subscribe to the latter, but maybe I'm horribly mistaken. Am I?
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Sculptor1
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Re: Paid forum trolls

Post by Sculptor1 »

Terrapin Station wrote: June 24th, 2021, 7:15 am
Steve3007 wrote: June 23rd, 2021, 5:02 am Since he/she'll probably burn out and stop posting soon, I think it's interesting to consider the latest evolution/creation style poster. Asif. I say "evolution/creation style poster" as a shorthand for the class of poster whose most obvious common feature is that they see themselves as an intellectual free spirit, untroubled by what they see as the intellectual straight jacket of learning what other people think/thought about stuff. As our old friend who started off calling himself "creation", and changed to "evolution", did.

I wonder if there is a common motive which drives them? Is it just their perception that anybody who learns anything about anything accepts that thing unquestioningly? Does that perception simply come from not having a particular form of education themselves, and therefore assuming that that education is harder to come by than it really is, and therefore assuming that people who have it guard it jealously and look down on those who don't have it?

If so, it's interesting that only certain types of education are treated like this. It's a perception that people like Asif and evolution/creation tend to have about a subject like philosophy or some of the sciences, but probably wouldn't have about a different specialism like, say, plumbing.

Nobody, as far as I know, says: "You plumbers in your ivory towers think your[sic] so great, with your dogmas about 22mm copper piping and compression joints!..."
My main vocation is music (which you might remember). That's a common thing with some musicians, too. There's an aversion to musical education/lessons because somehow they think it will "teach the creativity out of them," or "teach out of them what makes them unique as musicians." I've never quite understood that attitude. To some extent I think it's simply fueled by being an excuse to be kind of lazy and not put in the hard work that they'll have to put in as a student. "I'm fine/happy doing what I'm doing, I don't need additional work/chores/etc." But there also seems to be some sort of belief that education will change them and will iron out their quirks, as if it's designed to turn everyone into carbon copies of each other . . . I'm just not sure what the source of that is as such a strong belief.
That can be true, but it depends on the individual. And the same thought exists in Sculpture.
To my way of thinking, learning sculpture formally give you technique; such things as knowing about firing clay, mould making, and building armatures. But there are also techniques in knowing shapes and form. I've studied a lot of full body sculpture from life, usually naked bodies. Some people think that is "just" copying, but there is clear evidence that people who do such classes are much better able to express forms and are forced to develop thier abiltiy to observe.
However, the danger is that taking lessons can take you down a well trodden path from which it is harder to break out from. A bit like doing everything in C Major and 4/4 time. Some sculpture can be dragging crap out of a skip and assembling it is interesting ways. Depending on who the teacher and the pupil are; the observation skills sculpting a naked body can help with that, whilst making it less likley to look in the skip in the first place, spotting a good form as being like anatomy is easier.
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AmericanKestrel
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Re: Paid forum trolls

Post by AmericanKestrel »

Pattern-chaser wrote: June 28th, 2021, 11:39 am
If we say, for example, that the reality of the world we think we see is uncertain, do we mean that in an abstract philosophical sense, or do we intend that it actually applies to our 'real' world? I subscribe to the latter, but maybe I'm horribly mistaken. Am I?
I think it means there is more than one way to understand what is Real or Reality. You can understand and make it (the unreality of the world as we see it) your belief, and ALSO transact with the world as it appears. We know the theory of gravity for instance but also try to defy it all the time such as doing a head stand or yoga on one foot. When we balance perfectly we are in the abstract, when we fall with a thud we are in the world as we see it.
"The Serpent did not lie."
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Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
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Re: Paid forum trolls

Post by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes »

This topic contains posts by multiple members accusing other members by name of being "trolls", which I believe is clearly a violation of Rule A of the Forum Rules. For that reason, I have locked the topic.
My entire political philosophy summed up in one tweet.

"The mind is a wonderful servant but a terrible master."

I believe spiritual freedom (a.k.a. self-discipline) manifests as bravery, confidence, grace, honesty, love, and inner peace.
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