Paid forum trolls

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Roel
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Paid forum trolls

Post by Roel »

Obviously they exist in Russia and you can buy them I believe. I wondered if it's possible that some people on this forum are paid to post and defend certain opinions or post garbage.

How much does it actually happen online?
"Genuine tragedies in the world are not conflicts between right and wrong. They are conflicts between two rights." - Friedrich Hegel
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Burning ghost
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Re: Paid forum trolls

Post by Burning ghost »

That is an extremely interesting question!

The propaganda business is openly overt yet purposefully discreet in different mediums.

I wonder what gain there would be from producing propaganda on such a forum as this?

I know that certain widely read media sites are targetted by national propaganda when someone says something "bad" about their leader. I wonder if they bother on small sites like this? Do smaller sites combined actually produce a positive effect?

There are certainly a number of tools on google where we can research the use of words over the centuries and maybe use this information to try and attach political ideas to words and terms that are rising in popularity?

If they are not here now, I am sure it is because they have been before and failed to make an impact, or simply been unable to conclude if such a process is worth the work or not?

There is no doubt a whole vague "science" based on this theme? Is there such a thing as a "science of propoganda"?

To me the idea seems very cloak and dagger, added in with it being pitch black and the assailants unsure who they are actually stabbing I would imagine?

If there is an art and technique to such a thing then those who are accomplished in this art are possibly very important individuals? Then again if the art involved, no matter how accomplished the artist, is weak then even the best of the best would be nothing more than an ant competing in a 100m race with humans!
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Roel
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Re: Paid forum trolls

Post by Roel »

Burning ghost wrote:That is an extremely interesting question!

The propaganda business is openly overt yet purposefully discreet in different mediums.

I wonder what gain there would be from producing propaganda on such a forum as this?

I know that certain widely read media sites are targetted by national propaganda when someone says something "bad" about their leader. I wonder if they bother on small sites like this? Do smaller sites combined actually produce a positive effect?

There are certainly a number of tools on google where we can research the use of words over the centuries and maybe use this information to try and attach political ideas to words and terms that are rising in popularity?

If they are not here now, I am sure it is because they have been before and failed to make an impact, or simply been unable to conclude if such a process is worth the work or not?

There is no doubt a whole vague "science" based on this theme? Is there such a thing as a "science of propoganda"?

To me the idea seems very cloak and dagger, added in with it being pitch black and the assailants unsure who they are actually stabbing I would imagine?

If there is an art and technique to such a thing then those who are accomplished in this art are possibly very important individuals? Then again if the art involved, no matter how accomplished the artist, is weak then even the best of the best would be nothing more than an ant competing in a 100m race with humans!
Well, as we could see, Soros (left) and the Koch brothers (right) finance all kinds of groups which support their cause. Perhaps some people get paid to bend discussions to a certain political direction? I observed one strange thing once... I wrote one day about something on Wikipedia, it got a lot of negative response and removed, it was about some kind of conspiracy theory, monarch butterflies etc. Not much later on this forum somebody replied to a subject-related post and denied what I said, if this person was serious, he/she showed an incredible naivity, but to this day I suspect it might not have been coincidence and perhaps deliberate propaganda to influence peoples' opinion.

There are quite some visitors here, employing internet trolls or paid propagandists here might be useful. I just wonder about this but I don't think we can find out anything about it....
"Genuine tragedies in the world are not conflicts between right and wrong. They are conflicts between two rights." - Friedrich Hegel
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Burning ghost
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Re: Paid forum trolls

Post by Burning ghost »

Maybe? I have no idea what you're talking about directly though.

I do think it may simply be a matter of indivduals "ganging up" on certain issues rather than there being an "outsider" pulling the strings. That said a few well placed words here and there can be used to colour a discussion either for or against someone. Those partaking on these kinds of forums usually welcome opposition though not push away from it.

If I was to voice a political view here I would do so, often in such a way, as to create opposition so I can enforce the depth of my position by others helping uncover flaws that I am blind to. Healthy skepticism should guard against the serious participants.

I as for an attempt to influence people less interested in "philosophising" they would be better employed trolling mass media outlets such as twitter, reddit of facebook I would imagine.
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Roel
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Re: Paid forum trolls

Post by Roel »

Burning ghost wrote:Maybe? I have no idea what you're talking about directly though.

I do think it may simply be a matter of indivduals "ganging up" on certain issues rather than there being an "outsider" pulling the strings. That said a few well placed words here and there can be used to colour a discussion either for or against someone. Those partaking on these kinds of forums usually welcome opposition though not push away from it.

If I was to voice a political view here I would do so, often in such a way, as to create opposition so I can enforce the depth of my position by others helping uncover flaws that I am blind to. Healthy skepticism should guard against the serious participants.

I as for an attempt to influence people less interested in "philosophising" they would be better employed trolling mass media outlets such as twitter, reddit of facebook I would imagine.
I believe they already do that.

What is even smarter is posing as someone from a political group you don't like, post things which aren't smart on purpose to make people think that is what your political movement is about. A very effective way to discredit your opponent.

I think that you are wrong that there isn't someone pulling the strings. Why? This is extremely effective to influence public opinion.
"Genuine tragedies in the world are not conflicts between right and wrong. They are conflicts between two rights." - Friedrich Hegel
Dolphin42
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Re: Paid forum trolls

Post by Dolphin42 »

As I understand it, these kinds of trolls want to influence opinion, so they post on news sites that attract a lot of visitors. I seriously doubt whether anyone would part with hard cash and pay them to post things on our obscure little website where, if they're lucky, they'll manage to make half a dozen grouchy, argumentative old crazies a little bit more grouchy, argumentative and crazy.
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Roel
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Re: Paid forum trolls

Post by Roel »

Dolphin42 wrote:As I understand it, these kinds of trolls want to influence opinion, so they post on news sites that attract a lot of visitors. I seriously doubt whether anyone would part with hard cash and pay them to post things on our obscure little website where, if they're lucky, they'll manage to make half a dozen grouchy, argumentative old crazies a little bit more grouchy, argumentative and crazy.
Yeah. But I 'm still interested in discussing the phenomena in general.
"Genuine tragedies in the world are not conflicts between right and wrong. They are conflicts between two rights." - Friedrich Hegel
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Burning ghost
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Re: Paid forum trolls

Post by Burning ghost »

I said I doubted someone was doing so (pulling strings) on this kind of forum because it doesn't seem an obvious target.

As mentioned above I know people do try and influence popular mediums for sure. Forums like this, are expected to hold members who use logic and skepticism much more than say a general news forum.

I could guess at there being some kind of obscure reason/methodology for such activity on a site such as this, but honestly I would be speculating some kind of "science" existing that can predict the subtlties of human nature.

Would someone posing as a philosopher get anywhere trying to discredit philosophical discussion? I don't see how.
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Steve3007
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Re: Paid forum trolls

Post by Steve3007 »

Since we seem to temporarily have a troll-like poster on the site right now (as happens from time to time), perhaps this topic is an interesting one to revive.

I presume most trolls, like the current one (Asif), aren't paid but just enjoy the reaction they get. When the reaction dies down, as people get bored with the content-free flame war, the troll moves on. The fact that this happens to be a philosophy discussion website is irrelevant. All that matters is that it contains people who will react.
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Terrapin Station
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Re: Paid forum trolls

Post by Terrapin Station »

Roel wrote: December 21st, 2016, 10:25 am Obviously they exist in Russia and you can buy them I believe. I wondered if it's possible that some people on this forum are paid to post and defend certain opinions or post garbage.

How much does it actually happen online?
What would be the motivation for anyone to pay for this on the board?
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AmericanKestrel
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Re: Paid forum trolls

Post by AmericanKestrel »

Steve3007 wrote: June 22nd, 2021, 12:08 pm Since we seem to temporarily have a troll-like poster on the site right now (as happens from time to time), perhaps this topic is an interesting one to revive.

I presume most trolls, like the current one (Asif), aren't paid but just enjoy the reaction they get. When the reaction dies down, as people get bored with the content-free flame war, the troll moves on. The fact that this happens to be a philosophy discussion website is irrelevant. All that matters is that it contains people who will react.
I dont agree that Asif is the troll. The OP of that thread (not this one) is.
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Steve3007
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Re: Paid forum trolls

Post by Steve3007 »

Terrapin Station wrote:What would be the motivation for anyone to pay for this on the board?
I can't see a strong motive to pay anyone to troll one particular site, especially one like this. But I suppose somebody might pay people to troll lots and lots of sites to try to put out a particular message. Essentially, viral advertising. I guess it could be done in a very large number of places because trolling is very quick and easy to do because the posts take very little time and thought to compose. They just have to contain lots of LOL's and exclamation marks. And, it seems, in our case the words "sophist" and "cliché". :lol:
AmericanKestrel wrote:I dont agree that Asif is the troll. The OP of that thread (not this one) is.
But OPs are posts written by people, so surely only a poster, not a post, can be a troll. I agree, though, that Asif isn't a classic example of a troll. He's just a "type a quick insult to tell those pseudo intellectual philosophy snobs some good honest down to earth home truths" poster. There have been loads of them.

Anyway, I predict he'll be back after 6, UK time, when he gets home from work.
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AmericanKestrel
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Re: Paid forum trolls

Post by AmericanKestrel »

Steve3007 wrote: June 22nd, 2021, 12:43 pm
Terrapin Station wrote:What would be the motivation for anyone to pay for this on the board?
I can't see a strong motive to pay anyone to troll one particular site, especially one like this. But I suppose somebody might pay people to troll lots and lots of sites to try to put out a particular message. Essentially, viral advertising. I guess it could be done in a very large number of places because trolling is very quick and easy to do because the posts take very little time and thought to compose. They just have to contain lots of LOL's and exclamation marks. And, it seems, in our case the words "sophist" and "cliché". :lol:
AmericanKestrel wrote:I dont agree that Asif is the troll. The OP of that thread (not this one) is.
But OPs are posts written by people, so surely only a poster, not a post, can be a troll. I agree, though, that Asif isn't a classic example of a troll. He's just a "type a quick insult to tell those pseudo intellectual philosophy snobs some good honest down to earth home truths" poster. There have been loads of them.

Anyway, I predict he'll be back after 6, UK time, when he gets home from work.
An OP can created by a bought troll.
I think forums that depend on traffic/clicks to sell ads, may pay people to posts. Often the OP takes a life of its and the troll never returns.
"The Serpent did not lie."
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AmericanKestrel
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Re: Paid forum trolls

Post by AmericanKestrel »

I guess i am not using troll properly, but the bought bots ate like trolls.
"The Serpent did not lie."
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Robert66
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Re: Paid forum trolls

Post by Robert66 »

Here is a quote for consideration. It comes from the OP by UniversalAlien (presumably not her real name) which started one of the longest threads on this forum, "Gun Control and Mass Murder".

'I could not watch the news this morning save for only one story: 27 people, 20 of which were children between 5-10 years old were gunned down by a lone gunman who also killed his mother who was teaching the children at the time. Gun control advocates can now celebrate {cynicism intentional}. Again they will start to call for more draconian anti-gun laws to protect the public - But will this really protect the public? Australia after a similar incident some years ago outlawed all guns. And then the crime rate went up so high they had to rescind the law. In the USA with many millions of guns already in the hands of the public a gun ban would cause, to use an old saying: "When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns".'

I suspect UniversalAlien is a paid troll, receiving some reward, tangible or perceived, for posting dangerous lies, to a US-based forum, about a most sensitive issue in the US. The lies I refer to are numerous, and some are contained in the quote above:
-that gun control advocates would celebrate a mass murder;
-that Australia, after a similar incident, 'outlawed all guns';
-that Australia's 'crime rate then went up so high',
-that Australia 'had to rescind the law'.
These are all lies, of the most bare-faced variety. How do I know? I am Australian, and I have done a lot of research on the subject. I am also a gun-control advocate and I most certainly do not celebrate any mass murder.

As for the payment or reward for such trolling, I can't know whether UniversalAlien would have been paid directly by the NRA to spread pro-gun lies, or is just a deluded individual who believes the "alternate facts" made powerful by Trump and his cohort, however the effect of these blatant lies is the same regardless of payment. The NRA would be pleased that UniversalAlien has reached out to the world via this forum to spread lies which are designed to persuade readers that more gun ownership would be preferable.
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