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How can we deal with insane users of these forums

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How can we deal with insane users of these forums

Post by -1- » June 11th, 2017, 5:39 am

Calling them "insane" can be judged to be an ad hominem type of argument.

One must also consider that insane people are illogical and disruptive.

So how can the community exclude such members from the discussions? Our only tool is to keep reporting their activities if they contradict forum rules.

The problem with that is that anyone can write any nonsense, and as long as they don't contravene forum rules, they can't be asked to be deleted.

Thus a person can pepper the forum discussions with insane nonsense, and nobody can do anything about it.

A worse case is when the insane person has an agenda and he or she constantly pursues it.

This is very, VERY frustrating to other users, yet we are powerless to stop it from happening, given the current set of forum rules.

Please, someone suggest a way of democratically removing offending by insanity.

-- Updated 2017 June 11th, 12:26 pm to add the following --

What I've seen in action has been the bombardment of the insane with logical refutations of the insane's proposals and views, by sane members.

This MAY be effective. However, it is not humanitarian. The insane suffers; it is not nice to double up their suffering by ganging up on them in any way.

It is fun, to some, to pursue with iron-clad logic and with learned arguments the illogical arguments of the insane. It is fun to me only as long as the playing field is level. As soon as it is clear that the argumenting opposition is insane, the wind is taken out of my fun sail; I can't avail and revel in the suffering of others.

But I have to tell you, I join in FRUSTRATION sometimes the learned in showing the incredibly enduring counter-intuitive arguments and ill logic of the insane. I confess, yes, it is my sin too, but I get frustrated with their arguments and that is what makes me argue against them.
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Re: How can we deal with insane users of these forums

Post by Fooloso4 » June 11th, 2017, 4:58 pm

-1-:
What I've seen in action has been the bombardment of the insane with logical refutations of the insane's proposals and views, by sane members.

This MAY be effective. However, it is not humanitarian. The insane suffers; it is not nice to double up their suffering by ganging up on them in any way.
It may be best just to ignore certain other members, but I do not always follow that advice myself.

I am not in a position to judge whether another member is clinically insane or in some way psychologically troubled. And, of course, it may be that someone might form such a judgment about me as well.

I also do not know whether my disagreement with others leads to suffering. Some people thrive on confrontation. From time to time we get members here who are followers and students of William Lane Craig. They see it as their mission in life to be Christian apologists, God’s soldiers, defenders of the faith, fighting the holy war against atheists.

For all I know what I say may do little more than provoke those who do not wish to have their views questioned or challenged and delight those who see themselves as heroes vanquishing the dragon. At the end of the day they may even conclude that they have been victorious.
Please, someone suggest a way of democratically removing offending by insanity.
I have not answer other than to say that in a democracy we have to put up with the all kinds.

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Re: How can we deal with insane users of these forums

Post by Burning ghost » June 12th, 2017, 5:22 am

I am here to challenge people not because I wish to "show them up", but simply to aid them into presenting their positions better. By doing so I hope to improve my own ability in this area.

Of course we're all only human and it can be very easy to get too emotional about subjects we are passionate about. We also possess a certain stance and "agenda". Mine is as stated above.

If you feel very strongly that someone is crazy, or illogical, then you can try and see if you can make headway or not. I believe that everyone can be reached, the problem is judging how long it will take and whether you yourself deem it worth the effort.

I have noticed quite often you have some people trying to engage and being open to different views, yet the people who lose patience are the ones who stick in the mind. I lose patience, and many posts I have spent time writing I have simply deleted realizing that it will not progress or further the discussion. We should all expect some opposition and embrace it.

All that said it can get annoying when people wish to push their point and distract from the discussion. I guess we will all do this to some extent and must continually guard against it where we can.
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Re: How can we deal with insane users of these forums

Post by wanabe » June 14th, 2017, 12:21 am

Just don't talk to them. They'll get bored and leave.
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Re: How can we deal with insane users of these forums

Post by BelieveNothing » June 14th, 2017, 7:53 pm

I could be deemed insane but i don't mind..

A poem carries meaning from the author to who knows,
The reader keeps on reading to find out the way it goes..

When the reader's done, the author's message in their mind,
They have had some fun or found a reason to unwind..
What the author's made, selecting words to make it rhyme,
Is not designed to fade from memory even over time..

If you're feeling sad or lonely, contemplate a while.
It's not all that bad if you remember how to smile!
Reality is not all in your mind.

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Re: How can we deal with insane users of these forums

Post by Aristocles » July 29th, 2017, 10:16 am

Dealing with the disruption posts has been a reoccurring concern of mine also. I will admit that some disruptions are better than other, etc. (using "insane" is not likely to get cooperation from the accused)

My best solution is to keep with the philosophical content of the post, especially if you started the thread. The stewardship of the thread requires some reflection and reprocessing so regular summaries of progression can be appreciated and regularly posted. Without this, threads appear to become venting sessions, psychological burdens, excessively tangential, etc.

Likewise, stewardship of administration can help to lessen the duplicate topics, report abusers, etc. Admittedly, these are all labor intensive, but I can think of no better way than resorting to philosophy to beget philosophical cooperation.
Everybody has a lot of work to do for this to progress.

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Re: How can we deal with insane users of these forums

Post by LuckyR » July 29th, 2017, 11:59 pm

Still waiting for an example of an insane post, or a thread hijacked by insanity
"As usual... it depends."

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Re: How can we deal with insane users of these forums

Post by Aristocles » July 30th, 2017, 12:47 am

LuckyR wrote:Still waiting for an example of an insane post, or a thread hijacked by insanity
"Why meat eaters are NOT promoting animal cruelty" under the Ethics section.

Defense of Theism....

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Re: How can we deal with insane users of these forums

Post by Steve3007 » July 30th, 2017, 6:21 pm

-1-

I don't think I'd go so far as to actually label anyone insane. There's just nowt so queer as folk. But if you want to see some posters who appear impervious to rational argument you could look up, say, Rr6 or (my favourite from years gone by) Groktruth. A sample of the latter:

"Well, the scientifically most plausible hypothesis on the table now is that humans are a symbiotic union of a (about) 21 gram dark matter "soul" that is able to survive and function outside of the time-space continuum. But, having weight, this soul will eventually fall into a black hole, where it's suffering will begin a perpetually increasing and never ending horror. Hell. This hypothesis has been proven beyond reasonable doubt (some irrelevant details may be changed with further research). The objective evidence for it is extensive."

If you find these kinds of people annoying then you can click a button which stops you from seeing their posts. I've tried it myself on some. But my curiosity always gets the better of me and I un-ignore them again. But it might work for you.

It takes all sorts to make a world.

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Re: How can we deal with insane users of these forums

Post by -1- » July 30th, 2017, 7:45 pm

Currently there are two such posters on my list, Steven0007, whose comments I don't see because I put them on "iggie". And the quality of my life improved tremendously. I won't search for quotes, but one of them said something to the effect, that he accepts all reasonable findings by science, if they make sense and prove to be immediately true by intuition, unless they contradict the scriptures. Then no matter how well they stand to reason, he rejects them.

One has to be careful with the "iggie" list (ignore list) because one is liable to put himself on the list, and then by force of elimination, he can not ever again access the site.

This has happened to more very good people than you'd like to admit, Steven.

-- Updated 2017 July 30th, 7:58 pm to add the following --

I am not targeting the insane only because they annoy me. I am targeting them also because we (I) are cruel to them. It is almost superhuman to be kind with someone who spews absolute garbage, and even more superhuman if they are haughty, obstinate and have a sense of superiority.

But they are insane, and as such, they are like children or dogs: they are not liable for the things they say.

Then again, we are not our brothers' keepers.

Something has to give, and in my experience the very thing that gives first is empathy for their illness. In real life it's different, but the Internet brings out the worst in everybody.

-- Updated 2017 July 30th, 8:55 pm to add the following --
LuckyR wrote:Still waiting for an example of an insane post, or a thread hijacked by insanity
You're going to have a long wait. Naming a specific person or poster as an example suffering of insanity is a huge no-no in this forum.

Look for things like "big is small, and small is big, but small is not as big as big is small if small were big" or similar.
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Re: How can we deal with insane users of these forums

Post by Misty » July 31st, 2017, 4:16 am

Everyone is insane to someone-------How about live and let live?
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Re: How can we deal with insane users of these forums

Post by Steve3007 » July 31st, 2017, 5:18 am

-1-:
Currently there are two such posters on my list, Steven0007, whose comments I don't see because I put them on "iggie". And the quality of my life improved tremendously.
That's probably wise. But who's the other one? I guess you can't tell me because you're not reading this because I'm insane. And, for the same reason, I can never demonstrate my lucidity.

So I'm in something of a Catch 22 situation. Although, strictly speaking, that would involve me declaring myself insane to try to get thrown out of this website and being told by a moderator that being able to declare myself insane demonstrates that I'm not. Maybe it's Catch 21.
One has to be careful with the "iggie" list (ignore list) because one is liable to put himself on the list, and then by force of elimination, he can not ever again access the site.
That one sounds a bit closer to Catch 22.


Anyhoo, Misty makes a valid point. I once read a book about General Relativity by Bertrand Russell in which he said that a rigid wooden yardstick/ruler is only rigid in one particular reference frame. In another reference frame it could be wriggling like a snake and a wriggly snake would be rigid like a yardstick. Maybe that's how it is with these people you think are insane (wriggling like snakes). Maybe in their reference frame it is you who are wriggling like a snake.

If you were reading this I think it would give you food for thought.

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Re: How can we deal with insane users of these forums

Post by Burning ghost » July 31st, 2017, 5:39 am

I think everyone is insane except for me, or rather I once experienced "sanity". Which is generally how people define insanity. So I am insane. If I know I am insane then does this mean I am insane merely because others choose to call me insane by definition?

If the "sane" are the minority are they really "sane"? Is sanity generally more of a convention of some kind? I was once "sane" then I just ended up being insane again like everyone else .

You will deal as you think best no doubt. If you are interested by extreme ignorance and stupidity in yourself and others it may be worth engaging with these problematic people. Some simply refuse to communicate with certain levels of incoherence. I am one of those people, although I may try upon occasion to bridge the gap more often than not I achieve nothing more than finding another way to start building a bridge!

Then one-day we'll all just die anyway :)
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Re: How can we deal with insane users of these forums

Post by Fan of Science » July 31st, 2017, 2:43 pm

I agree that people should be banned from this forum who engage in unfounded personal attacks without addressing the substance of another poster's arguments. However, asking for people to be banned simply because you personally find their arguments without merit, even to the point of being sane, to me, cuts against the idea of freedom of speech and the spirit of philosophy. Using a censorship button to ban an opponent is simply not as meritorious as exposing their argument as illegitimate through reasoned discourse. I recall being banned by one forum because a biologist did not understand the mathematics behind evolutionary game theory that shows how genetic variation that benefits an individual, once spread throughout the larger population, can cause the larger population to be less fit. So, because some biologist was ignorant of math, I was banned. That's not saying much for that forum, and I've seen nothing that would rule out something similar from occurring here if a user could be banned for supposedly taking an "insane" position on a topic.

-- Updated July 31st, 2017, 2:44 pm to add the following --

Sorry, I meant even to the point of them being "insane," not "sane."

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Re: How can we deal with insane users of these forums

Post by Greta » July 31st, 2017, 8:25 pm

- 1 - there is nothing you can do about me because I am The Admin MWUHAHAHAHA

As a public forum we have a diversity of members. Some are brilliant, some bizarre.

I have learned through sometimes bitter experience and innumerable mistakes that any "noise" in a thread is only amplified by responding.

You cannot rectify unjust sentiments mentioned. You sometimes cannot correct wrong information. However, you can render those sentiments impotent by ignoring the errant post and staying on topic. So that trolling post can either be:

1) the dominant feature of a thread, or

2) akin to a child trying and failing to interrupt a grownups' conversation.

Sometimes it's like watching a slow motion train crash. You see the crappy post. Then you see a couple of sane posts afterwards simply continuing the conversation. All will be going fine until some fool comes across the problem, ignores the sensible postings and goes hard at the antagonist who, like a fisherman, feels "the pull on the line" and starts reeling ...

I have fallen for this trick - playing the idiot social justice warrior - SO many times! All I can ask is that others learn from my experience and my pain :)

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