I need help with my skepticism

Chat about anything your heart desires here, just be civil. Factual or scientific questions about philosophy go here (e.g. "When was Socrates born?"), and so most homework help questions belong here. Note, posts in the off-topic section will not increase new members post counts. This includes the introductions and feedback sections.
User avatar
Joker2510
New Trial Member
Posts: 2
Joined: January 28th, 2019, 10:59 am

I need help with my skepticism

Post by Joker2510 »

After getting into philosophy, I started questioning almost everything that showed up in my mind. The problem is I started questioning if my family and my friends love me. I mean, I do feel like they love, but I just don't see how I can be sure. I know I love them because I feel the love. But how can I be certain they're not just lying to me and acting really well. The idea of them having lied to me this whole time sounds absurd, but I just don't see how to logically exclude that possibility. I frequently feel sad and unmotivated to do things because of this doubt. This also affects me when it comes to being sure if someone is lying or not. If I hear a clearly contradictory statement, then, yeah, I can tell someone's lying. However, when it comes to their subjective view of things, I just don't know how to be sure they're being honest. I do get the feeling someone is lying or saying the truth, but I just can't say I'm certain. What can I do to change this? Do I just have to assume people are being honest or dishonest? I'd be really grateful for any attempt to help me. :(
User avatar
Felix
Posts: 3117
Joined: February 9th, 2009, 5:45 am

Re: I need help with my skepticism

Post by Felix »

Joker2510: I mean, I do feel like they love, but I just don't see how I can be sure.
Why do you have a need for certainty on that? It seems rather neurotic. Your self worth should not depend on what others think and feel about you. As someone said, "what you think of me is none of my business."
This also affects me when it comes to being sure if someone is lying or not.
This is just something one learns by interacting with people: one learns to recognize falsehood. If you are not, it means you need to socialize more (in the real world of course) and/or you are seeking security from others. Security comes from within yourself, by understanding your psyche, feelings and motivations. And you won't find certainty in this world. As they say, the only things certain here are death and taxes. Good luck.
"We do not see things as they are; we see things as we are." - Anaïs Nin
User avatar
Greenbone
New Trial Member
Posts: 8
Joined: September 2nd, 2019, 8:33 pm

Re: I need help with my skepticism

Post by Greenbone »

Use Occam's razor. It's impossible to ever logically exclude an infinite number of possibilities. How do you also know your family members are not secretly lizard people who plot to take over the world when you're not around? You can't prove that it's not the case. However, you can use Occam's razor to accept the conclusion that introduces the fewest assumptions. As long as your family loving you continues to be a working model for reality, you should continue to live as if it is reality because the practical effects on your life won't change.
User avatar
LuckyR
Moderator
Posts: 7935
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

Re: I need help with my skepticism

Post by LuckyR »

Joker2510 wrote: August 19th, 2019, 11:33 am After getting into philosophy, I started questioning almost everything that showed up in my mind. The problem is I started questioning if my family and my friends love me. I mean, I do feel like they love, but I just don't see how I can be sure. I know I love them because I feel the love. But how can I be certain they're not just lying to me and acting really well. The idea of them having lied to me this whole time sounds absurd, but I just don't see how to logically exclude that possibility. I frequently feel sad and unmotivated to do things because of this doubt. This also affects me when it comes to being sure if someone is lying or not. If I hear a clearly contradictory statement, then, yeah, I can tell someone's lying. However, when it comes to their subjective view of things, I just don't know how to be sure they're being honest. I do get the feeling someone is lying or saying the truth, but I just can't say I'm certain. What can I do to change this? Do I just have to assume people are being honest or dishonest? I'd be really grateful for any attempt to help me. :(
What is the difference between them really loving you and fake loving you so convincingly that you can't tell the difference?
"As usual... it depends."
User avatar
Alpha1
New Trial Member
Posts: 4
Joined: May 25th, 2020, 1:46 am

Re: I need help with my skepticism

Post by Alpha1 »

The best way to think of this is whether or not they are making an effort to show their affection. We can never really know what the other person thinks or feels about us and it is safe to say that everyone in some sense cannot fully control their own feelings or emotions but nevertheless what matters most is their effort, an effort to show their affection for you and their commitment in continuing that. Parents maybe irritated by a child but doesn't mean they don't love him, emotion is just a feeling and that usually comes and goes but the commitment to show their care for that child everyday for the rest of their lives is what really counts.
Steve3007
Posts: 10339
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm

Re: I need help with my skepticism

Post by Steve3007 »

Joker2510 wrote:After getting into philosophy, I started questioning almost everything that showed up in my mind. The problem is I started questioning if my family and my friends love me. I mean, I do feel like they love, but I just don't see how I can be sure. I know I love them because I feel the love. But how can I be certain they're not just lying to me and acting really well. The idea of them having lied to me this whole time sounds absurd, but I just don't see how to logically exclude that possibility...
You can't be certain that they're not just lying. They could be. They could be actors, as in The Truman Show. Or they might not exist at all; they could be figments of your imagination. Do you worry about that? If not, then why worry that they may only be pretending to love you?

If you worried about everything that could conceivably be true; if you worried about every possibility that you couldn't logically exclude, then you'd have a hell of a lot more to worry about than the love of your family and friends. Don't worry about what could logically be true. Stick with what appears, on the evidence so far, to be true.

If it looks like a duck, and it walks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, don't worry that it might not be a duck. Just feed it some bread.

Relax, and learn from Doctor Flicker:
User avatar
Terrapin Station
Posts: 6227
Joined: August 23rd, 2016, 3:00 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Bertrand Russell and WVO Quine
Location: NYC Man

Re: I need help with my skepticism

Post by Terrapin Station »

The key for this sort of stuff is to let go of what's essentially a neurotic need for certainty.

Instead, ask yourself what reasons you have to believe one possibility over another. What evidence do you have? If the only evidence you have for something is that it's possible--nothing else supports it aside from the logical possibility of it being the case, then that's not really a good reason to believe something.
User avatar
Calico
New Trial Member
Posts: 5
Joined: June 14th, 2020, 8:42 pm

Re: I need help with my skepticism

Post by Calico »

From a psychological perspective it seems that you’re talking about trust issues. “They say they love me but I’m not sure...”
All trust carries some risk and the risk is one of the things that makes the relationship special. There are lots of reasons that people have trust issues and I don’t know if this is something more than philosophical inquiry. The biggest problem, as I see it is that if you require 100% certainty you will inevitably be disappointed because all of us are imperfect and will screw up eventually. You’ll be left trusting no one. Maybe you could watch “The Truman Show” and see how that affects you.
User avatar
Jack D Ripper
Posts: 610
Joined: September 30th, 2020, 10:30 pm
Location: Burpelson Air Force Base
Contact:

Re: I need help with my skepticism

Post by Jack D Ripper »

Joker2510 wrote: August 19th, 2019, 11:33 am After getting into philosophy, I started questioning almost everything that showed up in my mind. The problem is I started questioning if my family and my friends love me. I mean, I do feel like they love, but I just don't see how I can be sure. I know I love them because I feel the love. But how can I be certain they're not just lying to me and acting really well. The idea of them having lied to me this whole time sounds absurd, but I just don't see how to logically exclude that possibility. I frequently feel sad and unmotivated to do things because of this doubt. This also affects me when it comes to being sure if someone is lying or not. If I hear a clearly contradictory statement, then, yeah, I can tell someone's lying. However, when it comes to their subjective view of things, I just don't know how to be sure they're being honest. I do get the feeling someone is lying or saying the truth, but I just can't say I'm certain. What can I do to change this? Do I just have to assume people are being honest or dishonest? I'd be really grateful for any attempt to help me. :(
Let's do a thought experiment. Let us imagine that the following is actually possible. Suppose that these people are just pretending that they love you, but do not really do so, but always act like they do. So they never say anything bad about you behind your back, they are nice to you in your presence, etc.

Let us now imagine a second idea, again, pretending that this is actually possible. Suppose that these people really love you, but they do not act like they do. They talk about you behind your back, saying bad things about you, and when you are present, they are unkind to you and treat you just like they don't love you, etc.

Now, which of the above situations is better for you? I could have started with this, but I will put the trite (but apt) old saying here: Actions speak louder than words. What matters is how they treat you, not what is going on in their heads.

You write as if what they do and what is going on in their heads is not connected in any way. The way you know that someone loves you is that they consistently act like they love you. And the way that you know that they don't love you is that they don't consistently act like they love you.
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence." - David Hume
User avatar
Arjen
Posts: 467
Joined: January 16th, 2019, 4:53 am
Favorite Philosopher: Immanuel Kant

Re: I need help with my skepticism

Post by Arjen »

Joker2510
First, skepticism is about postponing your judgement. Not about doubting. Observations and logical reasoning still have to be used. This means that skepticism dies not mean the same as doubting. It just means that you try not to subjectify observation with your own subjective perspective by judging them.

Then, let us discuss what love is. Love is a connection. In this connection, all reality is present. I love the young university graduate diwn the block. I remember how she bent over and seductively moved her ass in those tights as she saw me noticing her, but we both know I am married. We like the sexual tension, we know it will never be acted on due to my deeper love for my wife and son. I can doubt that this weird love exists, but I feel a connection when she smiles at me. There are others that like me and I feel a different connection with. Then there are some that I like and have no connection with. For example Danai Gurira, an actress. There is no connection. It is completely one-sided. Real love is that connection. The strength and type of connection carry the specifics of that kind of relationship.

In the case of love, I don't think the connection is in doubt. The doubt is which connections you or the other allow to flow. When you examine this, you influence it. It is a difficukt thing. This particular topic is best "experienced". That prevents subjectivication and a one-sided feeling. Postpone your judgement, do not doubt. Doubting turns into research, which will subjectify. That will make that connection form freely: in a loving way. I hope that makes sense.
The saying that what is true in theory is not always true in practice, means that the theory is wrong!
~Immanuel Kant
User avatar
Terrapin Station
Posts: 6227
Joined: August 23rd, 2016, 3:00 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Bertrand Russell and WVO Quine
Location: NYC Man

Re: I need help with my skepticism

Post by Terrapin Station »

Arjen wrote: October 3rd, 2020, 3:46 am
First, skepticism is about postponing your judgement. Not about doubting. Observations and logical reasoning still have to be used. This means that skepticism dies not mean the same as doubting. It just means that you try not to subjectify observation with your own subjective perspective by judging them.
I'm not sure there's a clear difference between postponing judgment and doubting. How would you characterize the difference?

I'm doubting that there's a clear difference by postponing my judgment until you explain what the clear difference supposedly is. ;-)
User avatar
Arjen
Posts: 467
Joined: January 16th, 2019, 4:53 am
Favorite Philosopher: Immanuel Kant

Re: I need help with my skepticism

Post by Arjen »

Haha. The difference is that doubting is a judgment.
- I see a UFO.
- I doubt that.
Postponing judgment is different:
- A UFO crashed at Roswell.
- Let's wait with decididing it is extraterrestrial or not until after we examine the debree.

Do you see tbe difference between doubting and postponing?
The saying that what is true in theory is not always true in practice, means that the theory is wrong!
~Immanuel Kant
User avatar
Terrapin Station
Posts: 6227
Joined: August 23rd, 2016, 3:00 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Bertrand Russell and WVO Quine
Location: NYC Man

Re: I need help with my skepticism

Post by Terrapin Station »

Arjen wrote: October 3rd, 2020, 12:03 pm Haha. The difference is that doubting is a judgment.
- I see a UFO.
- I doubt that.
Postponing judgment is different:
- A UFO crashed at Roswell.
- Let's wait with decididing it is extraterrestrial or not until after we examine the debree.

Do you see tbe difference between doubting and postponing?
In waiting to decide, you're doubting whether it's extraterrestrial.

"Doubting" doesn't imply that you've decided that it's not extraterrestrial. It seems like you're thinking it implies that. Doubting means that you're not committed to saying that it's extraterrestrial. "Doubting" that P is simply like saying that you're not certain that P, which is what you're doing when you withhold judgment. Doubting is different than denying.
User avatar
Arjen
Posts: 467
Joined: January 16th, 2019, 4:53 am
Favorite Philosopher: Immanuel Kant

Re: I need help with my skepticism

Post by Arjen »

You're wrong. Doubting IS a judgment.
Is it X?
I doubt that, so something else, not X.

Is it X?
I am not sure, let's examine and then decide.

I can't make it clearer than this.
Doubting is saying: not that, something else. And that is a judgement.

I think that you are referring to Descartes: "Dubito, ergo cogito, ergo sum"?
The saying that what is true in theory is not always true in practice, means that the theory is wrong!
~Immanuel Kant
User avatar
Terrapin Station
Posts: 6227
Joined: August 23rd, 2016, 3:00 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Bertrand Russell and WVO Quine
Location: NYC Man

Re: I need help with my skepticism

Post by Terrapin Station »

Arjen wrote: October 3rd, 2020, 12:49 pm You're wrong. Doubting IS a judgment.
I'm not saying it isn't. I said it's not a denial of P. If someone says "A UFO crashed at Roswell" and you consider it and say, "I'm not committing to either 'A UFO crashed at Roswell' or 'A UFO did not crash at Roswell' until we have more information, because either could be the case," then you're making a judgment about "A UFO crashed at Roswell." (Namely that you'd need more info to say either way--you're doubting that it's true.)
Post Reply

Return to “Philosophers' Lounge”

2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021