I need help with my skepticism

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Arjen
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Re: I need help with my skepticism

Post by Arjen »

evolution wrote: October 4th, 2020, 5:24 am You may be trying to do this, but you are not being successful.

No matter what you choose, you still have to present it in logical form. That is; If you really want to back up and support your previous claims.
I actually am succesfull. Just that you are interrupting. Just read back and try to understand without tripping over the witty double meaning of UFO. I'll even help you, if you will make an effort.
The saying that what is true in theory is not always true in practice, means that the theory is wrong!
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Terrapin Station
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Re: I need help with my skepticism

Post by Terrapin Station »

Arjen wrote: October 4th, 2020, 1:37 am
Skepticism is postponing judgment.
??? That has nothing to do with "simply naming."

Doubting is postponing judgment in just the same way. Again, doubting isn't the same thing as denying. Maybe you're mixing up some colloquial sense of "doubting" with the way we use the term in philosophy?

If someone says that P and you doubt that P, you're not forwarding that not-P. Maybe there's a colloquial, sarcastic sense in which "I doubt that P" implies "Not-P," but that's not the philosophical sense of doubting a la Descartes, for example.
evolution
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Re: I need help with my skepticism

Post by evolution »

Arjen wrote: October 4th, 2020, 5:54 am
evolution wrote: October 4th, 2020, 5:24 am You may be trying to do this, but you are not being successful.

No matter what you choose, you still have to present it in logical form. That is; If you really want to back up and support your previous claims.
I actually am succesfull.
To who, exactly?
Arjen wrote: October 4th, 2020, 5:54 am Just that you are interrupting.
Interrupting 'what', exactly?
Arjen wrote: October 4th, 2020, 5:54 am Just read back and try to understand without tripping over the witty double meaning of UFO.
I only know of one meaning of 'ufo'. What is the supposed other meaning?
Arjen wrote: October 4th, 2020, 5:54 am I'll even help you, if you will make an effort.
You will help me with 'what', exactly?

You do NOT YET appear to understand that one can doubt some thing WITHOUT it necessarily meaning judgment. Is this correct?
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Arjen
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Re: I need help with my skepticism

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evolution Doubting IS a judgment. You make me laugh. You didn't think this through.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
The saying that what is true in theory is not always true in practice, means that the theory is wrong!
~Immanuel Kant
evolution
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Re: I need help with my skepticism

Post by evolution »

Arjen wrote: October 4th, 2020, 8:20 am @evolution Doubting IS a judgment. You make me laugh. You didn't think this through.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
I have also noticed that you have NOT responded to ANY of the actual points that I have made about how doubting, itself, if NOT necessarily a judgment at all.

I even provided an example of just how doubting, itself, is actually NOT a judgment, at all.

What do you not understand about how some one can just doubt some thing, which is said to be true, without NECESSARILY making a judgment?
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Re: I need help with my skepticism

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartesian_doubt

"Cartesian doubt is a form of methodological skepticism associated with the writings and methodology of René Descartes (March 31, 1596–Feb 11, 1650).[1][2]:88 Cartesian doubt is also known as Cartesian skepticism, methodic doubt, methodological skepticism, universal doubt, systematic doubt, or hyperbolic doubt.

"Cartesian doubt is a systematic process of being skeptical about (or doubting) the truth of one's beliefs, which has become a characteristic method in philosophy.[3]:403 Additionally, Descartes' method has been seen by many as the root of the modern scientific method. This method of doubt was largely popularized in Western philosophy by René Descartes, who sought to doubt the truth of all beliefs in order to determine which he could be certain were true. It is the basis for Descartes' statement, "Cogito ergo sum" (I think, therefore I am).

"Methodological skepticism is distinguished from philosophical skepticism in that methodological skepticism is an approach that subjects all knowledge claims to scrutiny with the goal of sorting out true from false claims, whereas philosophical skepticism is an approach that questions the possibility of certain knowledge."
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Arjen
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Re: I need help with my skepticism

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evolution
:lol: :lol: :lol:
You didn't make any point. It is really simple:
-A thing or though is named.
-A subject considers if this thing or thought actually IS that, which name it was given.
-That subject doubts it and judges it is false.
-That subject then concludes whatever it is remains unproven.
-That subject postpones a further judgment or naming until after more research.
-That subject we t into skeptic mode.
The saying that what is true in theory is not always true in practice, means that the theory is wrong!
~Immanuel Kant
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Arjen
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Re: I need help with my skepticism

Post by Arjen »

Terrapin Station wrote: October 4th, 2020, 8:35 am https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartesian_doubt

"Cartesian doubt is a form of methodological skepticism associated with the writings and methodology of René Descartes (March 31, 1596–Feb 11, 1650).[1][2]:88 Cartesian doubt is also known as Cartesian skepticism, methodic doubt, methodological skepticism, universal doubt, systematic doubt, or hyperbolic doubt.
Yeah, this is why above somewhere I asked if this was about Descartes' Dubito, ergo cogito, ergo sum.

But this is not regular doubt. He means it in a different manner. He contracts doubting, judging and the following open mind. Tbe way he uses it is correct and important, but it is not the common doubt. It is emptying the mind, whivh he achieved by doubting.
The saying that what is true in theory is not always true in practice, means that the theory is wrong!
~Immanuel Kant
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Terrapin Station
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Re: I need help with my skepticism

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Arjen wrote: October 4th, 2020, 8:37 am @evolution
:lol: :lol: :lol:
You didn't make any point. It is really simple:
-A thing or though is named.
-A subject considers if this thing or thought actually IS that, which name it was given.
-That subject doubts it and judges it is false.
-That subject then concludes whatever it is remains unproven.
-That subject postpones a further judgment or naming until after more research.
-That subject we t into skeptic mode.
??? Names aren't "actual" or "real" or anything like that. Are you thinking that we discover names or something, and we can get them right/wrong?
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Terrapin Station
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Re: I need help with my skepticism

Post by Terrapin Station »

Arjen wrote: October 4th, 2020, 8:41 am
Terrapin Station wrote: October 4th, 2020, 8:35 am https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartesian_doubt

"Cartesian doubt is a form of methodological skepticism associated with the writings and methodology of René Descartes (March 31, 1596–Feb 11, 1650).[1][2]:88 Cartesian doubt is also known as Cartesian skepticism, methodic doubt, methodological skepticism, universal doubt, systematic doubt, or hyperbolic doubt.
Yeah, this is why above somewhere I asked if this was about Descartes' Dubito, ergo cogito, ergo sum.

But this is not regular doubt. He means it in a different manner. He contracts doubting, judging and the following open mind. Tbe way he uses it is correct and important, but it is not the common doubt. It is emptying the mind, whivh he achieved by doubting.
The way Descartes uses "doubt" is the way it's commonly used in philosophy, and in my experience, it's the way it's commonly used in general. Maybe you're talking about some particular colloquial usage that I don't encounter very often.
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Arjen
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Re: I need help with my skepticism

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Terrapin Station wrote: October 4th, 2020, 8:47 am The way Descartes uses "doubt" is the way it's commonly used in philosophy, and in my experience, it's the way it's commonly used in general. Maybe you're talking about some particular colloquial usage that I don't encounter very often.
No, it isn't. It is just the way that you have heard of. Also: in contemporary AND historical English, it has the seperated meaning that I am pointing out. Just that people like to say things in an easy way. But you know this, you just don't like to go back and realise that you were inaccurate.

Look, dubito means to ponder, not doubting. It excludes deciding. That is the historical and contemporary meaning.

Let's move on from this, ok?
The saying that what is true in theory is not always true in practice, means that the theory is wrong!
~Immanuel Kant
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Arjen
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Re: I need help with my skepticism

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Terrapin Station wrote: October 4th, 2020, 8:45 am ??? Names aren't "actual" or "real" or anything like that. Are you thinking that we discover names or something, and we can get them right/wrong?
Names a re predicates and are as such, a universal. What that is, is deciding if a thing or thought has the qualities to identify it as one of a set with that predicate. It has nothing to do with discovering. Man, think before you type?
The saying that what is true in theory is not always true in practice, means that the theory is wrong!
~Immanuel Kant
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Terrapin Station
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Re: I need help with my skepticism

Post by Terrapin Station »

Arjen wrote: October 4th, 2020, 10:08 am
Terrapin Station wrote: October 4th, 2020, 8:47 am The way Descartes uses "doubt" is the way it's commonly used in philosophy, and in my experience, it's the way it's commonly used in general. Maybe you're talking about some particular colloquial usage that I don't encounter very often.
No, it isn't.
Hold on. Are you disagreeing with (a) it's the way it's commonly used in philosophy?
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Terrapin Station
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Re: I need help with my skepticism

Post by Terrapin Station »

Arjen wrote: October 4th, 2020, 10:10 am
Terrapin Station wrote: October 4th, 2020, 8:45 am ??? Names aren't "actual" or "real" or anything like that. Are you thinking that we discover names or something, and we can get them right/wrong?
Names a re predicates and are as such, a universal. What that is, is deciding if a thing or thought has the qualities to identify it as one of a set with that predicate. It has nothing to do with discovering. Man, think before you type?
At least if we're not talking about proper names, they're universals in the sense of using them to arch over more than one particular.

But what does that have to do with the notion of an "actual" name?
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Arjen
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Re: I need help with my skepticism

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Terrapin Station wrote: October 4th, 2020, 11:22 am Hold on. Are you disagreeing with (a) it's the way it's commonly used in philosophy?
Yes. Although I am not doubting that people read it as such.
dictionary wrote: Https://latin-dictionary.net/definition ... deliberate

dubito, dubitare, dubitavi, dubitatus
verb
Definitions:

be uncertain/irresolute
deliberate
doubt
hesitate (over)
See? Doubting is an occasional meaning, in context. But translating is hard.
Terrapin Station wrote: October 4th, 2020, 11:24 am At least if we're not talking about proper names, they're universals in the sense of using them to arch over more than one particular.

But what does that have to do with the notion of an "actual" name?
We're talking about giving a predicate, as in logic.
The saying that what is true in theory is not always true in practice, means that the theory is wrong!
~Immanuel Kant
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