If, and when, we speak the actual Truth, then we are NEVER discourteous.Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑November 3rd, 2020, 12:54 pmOK, I'm going to come back in, because this is a subject that means a lot to me. I do so on the understanding that my views are mine, and may not be shared by ... anyone at all, except me.Jack D Ripper wrote: ↑November 3rd, 2020, 11:39 am
That's okay. My point was simply that sometimes honesty and courtesy conflict, and one must choose one over the other in a particular instance.
This sort of thing often happens when there are two values that one has, as they typically do not perfectly coincide. And then one must decide, in a particular instance, which one "wins" in that instance. It may be that one "wins" in one instance, and the other in another instance, which may depend upon some third thing that one values, or ....
I think courtesy was invented to avoid dishonesty, while also avoiding ad hominem attacks. On that basis, courtesy and honesty can never be in conflict.
If we see something we think we ought to comment on, we have three options.
1. We can choose not to speak.
2. We can address the issue with courtesy, scrupulously avoiding pesonal insult.
3. We can do what many typical humans do, and state our objections in the form of provocative insults, leading (perhaps) to violence.
If the matter is important enough that not speaking (1) is unacceptable, then courtesy dictates that we choose option
How we say one LOOKS, to us, is NOT our own personal value. That is just our view, from our perspective. Which is PERFECTLY LEGITIMATE considering our OWN personal past experiences. Just like how we FEEL about ANY thing.Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑November 3rd, 2020, 12:54 pm 2. We still speak the truth, but we do so in as neutral a manner as we can. I wonder if the examples you describe might mainly be addressed by option 1? After all, values, as you say, are often not universally accepted, and there is no point in criticising someone because they don't share your own personal value-priority structure, is there?
If ANY asks, "How does my bum LOOK?" and that person is NOT YET mature enough to REALIZE and KNOW that the one who it was asked to can and will ONLY EVER be able to give their OWN PERSONAL VIEW, which is NOT some sort of objective Truth that is ABSOLUTELY FACTUAL, then maybe it would be much better if that person NEVER asks ANOTHER what their VIEWS are.