Writing style

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Pattern-chaser
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Re: Writing style

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Jack D Ripper wrote: November 6th, 2020, 7:10 pm But when someone asks a question, that person does not get to pick the response they get. People should not be asking questions when they don't want the answer. So, I tend to have little sympathy for those who encounters a person like Pattern-chaser, who does not wish to offend, but also does not wish to lie. If Pattern-chaser chooses to gently tell them the truth, they have no right to complain, because they literally asked for it.
Your answer, here, is a factual one. Most humans would respond in a more social fashion, and would not see it as you do. The more an NT swears that you should tell them the honest truth, the more they mean "On no account tell me the truth. Lie through your teeth, but insist you mean it!" After the fact, it doesn't matter if they "literally asked for it". The autist is at fault, and is cast out. That's the way the world works, sadly.
Pattern-chaser

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Pattern-chaser
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Re: Writing style

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Pattern-chaser wrote:I think it's correct to say that skilled social communicators can plot a course through these difficult matters as they arise. I can even see what they're doing, as they do it, and maybe admire their skill.
Steve3007 wrote: November 7th, 2020, 7:53 am If we do, at least for the sake of argument, consider it a skill, would you say that part of being on the autistic spectrum tends to involve not being able to master that skill? (Not that you'd necessarily want to.)
It more than not being able to master that skill. We aren't equipped to master that skill, as you are. This isn't a thread about autism, though. I have more to say about this in my blog post.
Steve3007 wrote: November 7th, 2020, 7:53 am If we do, at least for the sake of argument, consider it a skill, would you say that part of being on the autistic spectrum tends to involve not being able to master that skill? (Not that you'd necessarily want to.) That appears to me to be a common view of one of the major characteristics of autism and why people with autism sometimes have difficulties interacting in environments that require communication which goes beyond simply exchanging factual information.

My closest experience with autism is my nephew. He is sufficiently autistic that he will almost certainly never be able to live independently of his parents (my sister and brother-in-law) and his extended family. We will always have to be there to look out for him. He can talk perfectly well (albeit with a stutter) but I think the main barrier to his living independently would be the problems he would have negotiating the huge ocean of other people and the skills of subtle diplomacy, tact and picking up on queues that that constantly requires.
Autists come in all 'shapes and sizes'. The difficulties we face vary accordingly. But it is social communication that troubles us the most, I think.
Pattern-chaser

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Steve3007
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Re: Writing style

Post by Steve3007 »

Pattern-chaser wrote:The difficulties we face vary accordingly. But it is social communication that troubles us the most, I think.
Yes, I think that is roughly what I was getting at. My nephew is fine with family and other people he knows because he has learned the rules of interaction with those people, and as long as we stick reasonably well to those rules he's reasonably okay. But general social interaction, with strangers, involves negotiating situations where the "rules" are not known and where a learned ability to pick up on all kinds of socially conditioned queues becomes more important.

Anyway, as you said this is not a thread about autism. I'll take a look at your blog.
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Jack D Ripper
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Re: Writing style

Post by Jack D Ripper »

Pattern-chaser wrote: November 8th, 2020, 8:53 am
Jack D Ripper wrote: November 6th, 2020, 7:10 pm But when someone asks a question, that person does not get to pick the response they get. People should not be asking questions when they don't want the answer. So, I tend to have little sympathy for those who encounters a person like Pattern-chaser, who does not wish to offend, but also does not wish to lie. If Pattern-chaser chooses to gently tell them the truth, they have no right to complain, because they literally asked for it.
Your answer, here, is a factual one. Most humans would respond in a more social fashion, and would not see it as you do. The more an NT swears that you should tell them the honest truth, the more they mean "On no account tell me the truth. Lie through your teeth, but insist you mean it!" After the fact, it doesn't matter if they "literally asked for it". The autist is at fault, and is cast out. That's the way the world works, sadly.

Well, yes, people often do complain even when they have no right to do so.

And yes, you are right, very often people swear they want something that they do not really want. Those people are annoying as hell.

I say, cast them off into outer darkness, and have nothing to do with them. It is better to have very few friends who are good, than to have a bunch of acquaintances who are not good, who are only pretending to be friends.

This somehow reminds me of a conversation I had with a veterinarian, who told me that the people who said they did not care about the cost, just do whatever it takes for the pet, were typically deadbeats who would not pay. People who ask what the procedure costs are much more likely to pay. I had not thought of it before that conversation, but it makes sense that if you are not going to pay anyway that you don't care about the cost. And for people who are planning on paying, it makes sense for them to want to know the cost first.
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence." - David Hume
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