Why Does The Left Destroy Everything It Touches?

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impermanence
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Re: Why Does The Left Destroy Everything It Touches?

Post by impermanence »

baker wrote: January 8th, 2021, 12:11 pm
Steve3007 wrote: January 8th, 2021, 6:16 amDo you plan to do anything about the tyranny which you regard as oppressing you in your own country? Perhaps storm the citadels of power, dressed like JK from Jamiroquai, and overthrow your oppressors by force or something?
There is a fine solution for the OP's problem: He should put in the work and get a job in the fancy private health care sector where he gets to choose whom he will treat, for what problem, and what he gets payed for it.
Yay!
Gee, baker, and here I thought you cared about me!
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LuckyR
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Re: Why Does The Left Destroy Everything It Touches?

Post by LuckyR »

impermanence wrote: January 8th, 2021, 12:27 pm
LuckyR wrote: January 8th, 2021, 2:39 am Okay, so would you spend money on childhood leukemia? It's not that affordable.
If society determines it not affordable, then it becomes similar to a situation where a person has a condition where there is no treatment available.

The bottom-line is that you cannot bankrupt your society trying to keep everybody alive. People need to suck it up and accept this reality.
Actually society has determined that it is affordable. If anyone wanted to sell healthy insurance they can: "hey we'll pay for yoga classes and dietary instruction but not to treat any complicated diseases. And our premiums are dirt cheap (just don't get sick with anything expensive)" According to you, you could go out tomorrow and sell that sort of thing and revolutionize the medical marketplace. My guess is you will sell exactly one policy. There is no demand for insurance that doesn't pay for anything (of substance). But thanks for playing.

Or to use your car insurance analogy, your policy would pay for oil changes and new wiper blades but wouldn't for car accident damage. Wow cheap too!! You buying?
"As usual... it depends."
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Sy Borg
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Re: Why Does The Left Destroy Everything It Touches?

Post by Sy Borg »

impermanence wrote: January 8th, 2021, 12:22 pm
Greta wrote: January 8th, 2021, 2:19 am Governments and multinationals are no more parasites than orcas, eagles, tigers and humans. They are alpha predators. If not them, then religious organisations take control, and that would truly be tyranny.
Obviously you are not going to completely extinguish government/corporations, but you have to do what you can to keep them at bay. Otherwise, we are all be slaves again. You and I have enjoyed what we have in our lives because those from previous generations fought the good fight which gave individuals many opportunities to succeed. The power of government and the power is corporations is legislated, not natural. And, as a matter of pure speculation, its seems quite unnatural.
You are already slaves to some extent. The median wage of Americans is closer to that of developing nations than democracies (the average wage is high, though, due to inequality).

Everything that happens in natural. The word "unnatural" is purely relative, like "nothing". Nature is changing, and we are the change.

impermanence wrote: January 8th, 2021, 12:22 pm
The fact is that people empower each other by joining forces, and large cohesive groups usually beat smaller, less organised groups and individuals. Power vacuums are always soon filled. If, say, the US, decides to weaken itself by breaking up its largest organisations (which is probably impossible anyway) then it would simply be picked off by much more powerful Sino-Russian competitors, which would seem all-powerful by comparison.
National defense is one area where you must be strong. If you can't protect yourself, you've got little chance. The other area is in protecting property rights. Btw, when are you guys going to pony-up some AUD's for protecting your butts for the last 75 years? :wink:
LOL Americans are weird.

They invade sovereign nations so as to spread democracy. But 45% of Republicans supported yesterday's invasion of Capitol Hill. At least a third would apparently rather the US be an autocracy than democracy, probably more these days. King Donald I was snatched from their grasp! Apparently a vast majority of Republicans believe that US elections are inherently unfair (aside from their own gerrymander). Faith in democracy there is at an all-time low.

But America had Australia throw away their soldiers' lives and wellbeing, spending billions in the process, and damaging our international reputation. This was so that we could please the US by cowtowing to their demands - on projects that were supposed to install a system that Americans are in the process of abandoning themselves!

Then the US want Australia to pay them overs for the privilege. How far must we bend over for you, Uncle Sam? All the way, is it? With fries and coke?

impermanence wrote: January 8th, 2021, 12:22 pm
Still, it is well past time that multinationals started paying appropriate tax, that governments stopped patronizing their powerful friends, and churches paid tax like anyone else. All three, especially the first two, seem unlikely in my lifetime, though. Do you think I should write a wish fulfillment story about it?
Many of these things are going to happen on their own volition because the elite have just about completely destroyed the geese that have been laying their golden eggs.
Economies are trending towards separating into strict classes.

There will be a system that operates B2B that will control most the wealth and own the best things. There will be a separate financial system of the masses, which will probably be dominated by new age woo-style evangelical theism. And there will be systems that act as a link to the masses, allowing them to be studied. There will be limited opportunities to join the privileged class, and individuals will be prepared to pay for "Manna from heaven", or a chance to "escape the ghetto".

Basically, I'm expecting more of the same with ever-hardening boundaries between classes, facilitated by technology.
impermanence
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Re: Why Does The Left Destroy Everything It Touches?

Post by impermanence »

LuckyR wrote: January 8th, 2021, 4:58 pm
impermanence wrote: January 8th, 2021, 12:27 pm
If society determines it not affordable, then it becomes similar to a situation where a person has a condition where there is no treatment available.

The bottom-line is that you cannot bankrupt your society trying to keep everybody alive. People need to suck it up and accept this reality.
Actually society has determined that it is affordable. If anyone wanted to sell healthy insurance they can: "hey we'll pay for yoga classes and dietary instruction but not to treat any complicated diseases. And our premiums are dirt cheap (just don't get sick with anything expensive)" According to you, you could go out tomorrow and sell that sort of thing and revolutionize the medical marketplace. My guess is you will sell exactly one policy. There is no demand for insurance that doesn't pay for anything (of substance). But thanks for playing.

Or to use your car insurance analogy, your policy would pay for oil changes and new wiper blades but wouldn't for car accident damage. Wow cheap too!! You buying?
Un-affordable medical expenses have been the number one cause of bankruptcy in the U.S. for the last several years.

Who do you believe determines what insurance covers? Citizens, or it the government and health care related corporations?
impermanence
Posts: 165
Joined: December 5th, 2020, 11:45 am

Re: Why Does The Left Destroy Everything It Touches?

Post by impermanence »

Greta wrote: January 8th, 2021, 7:26 pm You are already slaves to some extent. The median wage of Americans is closer to that of developing nations than democracies (the average wage is high, though, due to inequality).
Of which developing nations do you refer? Keep in mind that the political class decided that they would rather line the elite's [and their pockets] with yuan in one of the great all-time sell-outs in history. And remember, your buddy [King Donald] was trying to get some of the jobs back. With Joe 'the complete dufus' Biden in power, China will once again be in control.
Everything that happens is natural. The word "unnatural" is purely relative, like "nothing". Nature is changing, and we are the change.
You have to do better than that.
impermanence wrote: January 8th, 2021, 12:22 pm
National defense is one area where you must be strong. If you can't protect yourself, you've got little chance. The other area is in protecting property rights. Btw, when are you guys going to pony-up some AUD's for protecting your butts for the last 75 years? :wink:
LOL Americans are weird.
They invade sovereign nations so as to spread democracy. But 45% of Republicans supported yesterday's invasion of Capitol Hill. At least a third would apparently rather the US be an autocracy than democracy, probably more these days. King Donald I was snatched from their grasp! Apparently a vast majority of Republicans believe that US elections are inherently unfair (aside from their own gerrymander). Faith in democracy there is at an all-time low.
How do you know that 45% of republicans supported the rioting? You have to realize that almost all the news in tainted. EVERYTHING in this country is basically suspect. You must know that most of this is political theater to distract the masses while the elite continue to deposit millions [billions] in the bank. It is a scam if incredible proportions.
But America had Australia throw away their soldiers' lives and wellbeing, spending billions in the process, and damaging our international reputation. This was so that we could please the US by cowtowing to their demands - on projects that were supposed to install a system that Americans are in the process of abandoning themselves!

Then the US want Australia to pay them overs for the privilege. How far must we bend over for you, Uncle Sam? All the way, is it? With fries and coke?
Then become independent and pay for your own defense. Why should I have to be paying for your security? And as you know [the famous adage from the 60's], "Grass, gas, or ass [or defense], everybody pays to ride."

Can I supersize that Coke for you?
impermanence wrote: January 8th, 2021, 12:22 pm Many of these things are going to happen on their own volition because the elite have just about completely destroyed the geese that have been laying their golden eggs.
Economies are trending towards separating into strict classes.

There will be a system that operates B2B that will control most the wealth and own the best things. There will be a separate financial system of the masses, which will probably be dominated by new age woo-style evangelical theism. And there will be systems that act as a link to the masses, allowing them to be studied. There will be limited opportunities to join the privileged class, and individuals will be prepared to pay for "Manna from heaven", or a chance to "escape the ghetto".

Basically, I'm expecting more of the same with ever-hardening boundaries between classes, facilitated by technology.
Like I mentioned previously, prognostication is tricky business. Que sera sera.
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Sy Borg
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Re: Why Does The Left Destroy Everything It Touches?

Post by Sy Borg »

impermanence wrote: January 8th, 2021, 10:16 pm
Greta wrote: January 8th, 2021, 7:26 pm You are already slaves to some extent. The median wage of Americans is closer to that of developing nations than democracies (the average wage is high, though, due to inequality).
Of which developing nations do you refer? Keep in mind that the political class decided that they would rather line the elite's [and their pockets] with yuan in one of the great all-time sell-outs in history. And remember, your buddy [King Donald] was trying to get some of the jobs back. With Joe 'the complete dufus' Biden in power, China will once again be in control.
After four years of would-be King Donald I in power we can see how wonderfully the US is doing. The world is in awe at how far the US has come.

That's what you need, right? A great businessman to run the country just like he runs his businesses. And you received that. He has left the US in the same shape as he left his hotels and casinos.

It might have worked if you had a competent businessman, not a Mafia-connected grifter who has turned the US into a reality show, one might say the Greatest Show on Earth.

impermanence wrote: January 8th, 2021, 10:16 pm
Everything that happens is natural. The word "unnatural" is purely relative, like "nothing". Nature is changing, and we are the change.
You have to do better than that.
As do you. It is logically absurd to see humanity as being outside of nature. Are you a creationist?

impermanence wrote: January 8th, 2021, 12:22 pm
LOL Americans are weird.
They invade sovereign nations so as to spread democracy. But 45% of Republicans supported yesterday's invasion of Capitol Hill. At least a third would apparently rather the US be an autocracy than democracy, probably more these days. King Donald I was snatched from their grasp! Apparently a vast majority of Republicans believe that US elections are inherently unfair (aside from their own gerrymander). Faith in democracy there is at an all-time low.
How do you know that 45% of republicans supported the rioting? You have to realize that almost all the news in tainted. EVERYTHING in this country is basically suspect. You must know that most of this is political theater to distract the masses while the elite continue to deposit millions [billions] in the bank. It is a scam if incredible proportions.
https://www.opindia.com/2021/01/45-per- ... gov-polls/

impermanence wrote: January 8th, 2021, 12:22 pm
But America had Australia throw away their soldiers' lives and wellbeing, spending billions in the process, and damaging our international reputation. This was so that we could please the US by cowtowing to their demands - on projects that were supposed to install a system that Americans are in the process of abandoning themselves!

Then the US want Australia to pay them overs for the privilege. How far must we bend over for you, Uncle Sam? All the way, is it? With fries and coke?
Then become independent and pay for your own defense. Why should I have to be paying for your security? And as you know [the famous adage from the 60's], "Grass, gas, or ass [or defense], everybody pays to ride."

Can I supersize that Coke for you?
Australia certainly pays for its own security. It also houses many US bases here, making it strategically critical to the US.

Australians don't mind supporting the US in legitimate wars but dragging others into such ill-conceived and illegal Republican adventurist wars is unacceptable.


impermanence wrote: January 8th, 2021, 12:22 pm Many of these things are going to happen on their own volition because the elite have just about completely destroyed the geese that have been laying their golden eggs.
Economies are trending towards separating into strict classes.

There will be a system that operates B2B that will control most the wealth and own the best things. There will be a separate financial system of the masses, which will probably be dominated by new age woo-style evangelical theism. And there will be systems that act as a link to the masses, allowing them to be studied. There will be limited opportunities to join the privileged class, and individuals will be prepared to pay for "Manna from heaven", or a chance to "escape the ghetto".

Basically, I'm expecting more of the same with ever-hardening boundaries between classes, facilitated by technology.
Like I mentioned previously, prognostication is tricky business. Que sera sera.
[/quote]
The short and medium term are subject to chaos, and harder to predict. Long term trends are much easier to pick. There are only a few possibilities to choose from, and some of those are discounting themselves, eg. we can forget about the dream that humans would appreciate their shared fate, and with other species, and thus pull together to make a better world, becoming ever smarter wiser. Basically the general utopian visions are gone, but there are utopian possibilities for those with control of the best technology. At the moment that's looking like the Chinese, but they are more vulnerable to climate change than some other major nations, especially northern China.
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Re: Why Does The Left Destroy Everything It Touches?

Post by LuckyR »

impermanence wrote: January 8th, 2021, 9:48 pm
LuckyR wrote: January 8th, 2021, 4:58 pm

Actually society has determined that it is affordable. If anyone wanted to sell healthy insurance they can: "hey we'll pay for yoga classes and dietary instruction but not to treat any complicated diseases. And our premiums are dirt cheap (just don't get sick with anything expensive)" According to you, you could go out tomorrow and sell that sort of thing and revolutionize the medical marketplace. My guess is you will sell exactly one policy. There is no demand for insurance that doesn't pay for anything (of substance). But thanks for playing.

Or to use your car insurance analogy, your policy would pay for oil changes and new wiper blades but wouldn't for car accident damage. Wow cheap too!! You buying?
Un-affordable medical expenses have been the number one cause of bankruptcy in the U.S. for the last several years.

Who do you believe determines what insurance covers? Citizens, or it the government and health care related corporations?
So what should be the number one cause of bankruptcy be in the US? What's more important than your health?

Or to put it another way, I'd rather be bankrupt than dead.
"As usual... it depends."
impermanence
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Joined: December 5th, 2020, 11:45 am

Re: Why Does The Left Destroy Everything It Touches?

Post by impermanence »

LuckyR wrote: January 9th, 2021, 2:36 am
impermanence wrote: January 8th, 2021, 9:48 pm
Un-affordable medical expenses have been the number one cause of bankruptcy in the U.S. for the last several years.

Who do you believe determines what insurance covers? Citizens, or it the government and health care related corporations?
So what should be the number one cause of bankruptcy be in the US? What's more important than your health?

Or to put it another way, I'd rather be bankrupt than dead.
That's EXACTLY what the all the health care administrators in the U.S. say, "What better reason to go bankrupt then lining our pockets?"
impermanence
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Joined: December 5th, 2020, 11:45 am

Re: Why Does The Left Destroy Everything It Touches?

Post by impermanence »

Greta wrote: January 9th, 2021, 1:50 am After four years of would-be King Donald I in power we can see how wonderfully the US is doing. The world is in awe at how far the US has come.

That's what you need, right? A great businessman to run the country just like he runs his businesses. And you received that. He has left the US in the same shape as he left his hotels and casinos.
Any president can only do much. S/he is basically a cheerleader. Trump did get several things right...trade, China policy, and immigration to name three. He was also pro-getting jobs back to the U.S., anti-foreign interventionist [as compared to neocons and Democrat war-mongers], and stood up for the common man.

I still don't know where you see all these fear-mongering about authoritarianism when just the same is taking place on the left by the elite that control the pretty much everything at this point.
It might have worked if you had a competent businessman, not a Mafia-connected grifter who has turned the US into a reality show, one might say the Greatest Show on Earth.
Do you really know a lot about his business career? And where did you get your information?
impermanence wrote: January 8th, 2021, 10:16 pm
You have to do better than that.
As do you. It is logically absurd to see humanity as being outside of nature. Are you a creationist?
Of course it's absurd, but you leave out all context. Making stupid choices isn't "natural," is it? That's the same argument that religious people use when they suggest that everything that happens is "God's will."
impermanence wrote: January 8th, 2021, 12:22 pm
How do you know that 45% of republicans supported the rioting? You have to realize that almost all the news in tainted. EVERYTHING in this country is basically suspect. You must know that most of this is political theater to distract the masses while the elite continue to deposit millions [billions] in the bank. It is a scam if incredible proportions.
Greta, nobody believes polls in this country anymore. After the last 50 years of lying, nobody believes much of anything [from institutions or most individuals]. It's called system failure.
impermanence wrote: January 8th, 2021, 12:22 pmThen become independent and pay for your own defense. Why should I have to be paying for your security? And as you know [the famous adage from the 60's], "Grass, gas, or ass [or defense], everybody pays to ride."

Can I supersize that Coke for you?
Australia certainly pays for its own security. It also houses many US bases here, making it strategically critical to the US.

Australians don't mind supporting the US in legitimate wars but dragging others into such ill-conceived and illegal Republican adventurist wars is unacceptable.
You really believe that Australians pay their fair share for how much it costs for the U.S. to play global policeman? How about if you pay some of federal income tax this year?

Here's the reality, war is BIGGEST business there is. That's the other reason why the prevailing empire is consumed with it. You have to stop making this a Democrat v. Republican thing. It's about the elite and everybody else. The elite are the owners of pretty much everything and their minions in the political class as well as the lowest of the elite [the worker elite] in the professional and administrative classes. These are the folks who have screwed everybody over by re-writing all the laws and stealing everything not nailed down.

The race and the political things are just distractions while they continue to cart all the money off to the bank.
impermanence wrote: January 8th, 2021, 12:22 pm Many of these things are going to happen on their own volition because the elite have just about completely destroyed the geese that have been laying their golden eggs.
Economies are trending towards separating into strict classes.

There will be a system that operates B2B that will control most the wealth and own the best things. There will be a separate financial system of the masses, which will probably be dominated by new age woo-style evangelical theism. And there will be systems that act as a link to the masses, allowing them to be studied. There will be limited opportunities to join the privileged class, and individuals will be prepared to pay for "Manna from heaven", or a chance to "escape the ghetto".

Basically, I'm expecting more of the same with ever-hardening boundaries between classes, facilitated by technology.

The short and medium term are subject to chaos, and harder to predict. Long term trends are much easier to pick. There are only a few possibilities to choose from, and some of those are discounting themselves, eg. we can forget about the dream that humans would appreciate their shared fate, and with other species, and thus pull together to make a better world, becoming ever smarter wiser. Basically the general utopian visions are gone, but there are utopian possibilities for those with control of the best technology. At the moment that's looking like the Chinese, but they are more vulnerable to climate change than some other major nations, especially northern China.
I'll leave the predicting in your good hands.
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Sy Borg
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Re: Why Does The Left Destroy Everything It Touches?

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impermanence wrote: January 9th, 2021, 1:09 pmI still don't know where you see all these fear-mongering about authoritarianism when just the same is taking place on the left by the elite that control the pretty much everything at this point.
Here is the fault line. The left has never at any stage been in control of any Anglosphere democracy in my lifetime. Your claim that the left in in control is laughably wrong. No, it's not laughable, it's sad.

The right has always been utterly dominant at all times and any suggestion otherwise flies in the face of financial history. How could you possibly believe that the left had any power at all? The proof is right there in hard figures - the fact that the gap between rich and poor has always increased - as per right wing "trickle down" policy. If the left had eve been in control then that would not be the case.
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Sy Borg
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Re: Why Does The Left Destroy Everything It Touches?

Post by Sy Borg »

impermanence wrote: January 9th, 2021, 1:09 pm
It might have worked if you had a competent businessman, not a Mafia-connected grifter who has turned the US into a reality show, one might say the Greatest Show on Earth.
Do you really know a lot about his business career? And where did you get your information?
Numerous sources. Are you really arguing with me while so lacking in knowledge of your own man? Did you not realise that Trump was mentored by Mafia lawyer, Roy Cohn? Or that he has done many deals with Mafia in NY and Russia? You really need to study your subject before debating.

impermanence wrote: January 9th, 2021, 1:09 pm
impermanence wrote: January 8th, 2021, 10:16 pm
You have to do better than that.
As do you. It is logically absurd to see humanity as being outside of nature. Are you a creationist?
Of course it's absurd, but you leave out all context. Making stupid choices isn't "natural," is it? That's the same argument that religious people use when they suggest that everything that happens is "God's will."
We are part of the Earth, stupid choices and all. This view is the very opposite to religious people claiming God's will.

impermanence wrote: January 8th, 2021, 12:22 pmHow do you know that 45% of republicans supported the rioting? You have to realize that almost all the news in tainted. EVERYTHING in this country is basically suspect. You must know that most of this is political theater to distract the masses while the elite continue to deposit millions [billions] in the bank. It is a scam if incredible proportions.
Greta, nobody believes polls in this country anymore. After the last 50 years of lying, nobody believes much of anything [from institutions or most individuals]. It's called system failure.[/quote]
If you don't believe anything, then there are no words. There can only be violence.

Just because there is misinformation does not make all information false. One either has the judgement to assess credible sources or one falls behind.

impermanence wrote: January 8th, 2021, 12:22 pmHere's the reality, war is BIGGEST business there is. That's the other reason why the prevailing empire is consumed with it. You have to stop making this a Democrat v. Republican thing.
When Clinton left office the US economy was in surplus. After GWB's adventures in Iraq, the US has amassed the biggest debt in history.

Note that the Republicans started the Vietnam and Iraq wars, and each has had a devastating effect on the US economy and culture.
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Re: Why Does The Left Destroy Everything It Touches?

Post by LuckyR »

impermanence wrote: January 9th, 2021, 12:35 pm
LuckyR wrote: January 9th, 2021, 2:36 am

So what should be the number one cause of bankruptcy be in the US? What's more important than your health?

Or to put it another way, I'd rather be bankrupt than dead.
That's EXACTLY what the all the health care administrators in the U.S. say, "What better reason to go bankrupt then lining our pockets?"
That's pretty cavalier coming from the guy who wants health insurance to not cover the cost of treatment of illnesses.
"As usual... it depends."
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by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021