Why Does The Left Destroy Everything It Touches?

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impermanence
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Re: Why Does The Left Destroy Everything It Touches?

Post by impermanence »

Papus79 wrote: January 3rd, 2021, 7:30 pmYeah, that's really the sad thing about this.

I love watching 'Just Have A Think' on Youtube when he has his technology updates. Today he shared something I wasn't even aware of - that there's some hint that vertical farms might even be able to handle grain production profitably now - that was seen as a really far-future thing even just a few years ago! It's not just Pinker now, it's a lot of more cautious optimists really suggesting that we're positioned to pull right through this if we can keep crazy at bay for at least another decade or so. If I were a Bread-Tuber I couldn't be more excited or even considering the possibility that a Jacques Fresco Venus Project / RBE could be far less crazy of an idea within the next few decades than it ever was.

The trick is keeping the witch-hunters busy with as many stick-figures as possible, maybe piñatas full of candy, perhaps some of the wealthiest admitting that certain things, more useful than just handouts, are needed for getting the US, Europe, etc. back on their feet economically and give the generations who are hitting the work world right now some kind of fair shake at actually applying themselves and getting a fair exchange. Past that - as Mark Blyth would say - the Hampton's aren't a militarily defensible position and it would be a horror to watch our ability to feed potentially 11 billion people, solve global warming and environmental degradation, beat Covid, etc. go up in smoke because people are itching too badly for a fight and damaged civilization too badly for those things to roll out well.
The most important thing people can do is calm down. Making things worse doesn't help anybody. Next they need to learn how see things with some clarity which will give them the ability to understand and react [eventually be proactive] with skillful and meaningful actions. People suffer from ignorance and a plethora of emotional dis-abilities.

Despite all the insanity going on, we still live in an incredible time with boundless opportunities for self-realization. What else can one ask for?
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Sy Borg
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Re: Why Does The Left Destroy Everything It Touches?

Post by Sy Borg »

Given how the table is tilted, I do not judge the obese or others who many judge as 'self destructive".

At this stage it appears that a sizeable portion of the US population feels they have so little to lose that they don't care what happens to democracy. They feel it has not served them, and they have lost interest, prepared to try autocracy - as long as it is their autocrat. If life seems worthless to them, they are not so inclined to fuss overly about health.

Opportunities are largely gone for the many. Once an individual could make discoveries, now our job is to read about them. Aside from the occasional fluke and/or genius, individuals cannot hope to compete against teams of experts using state-of-the-art computing and other equipment.
baker
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Re: Why Does The Left Destroy Everything It Touches?

Post by baker »

impermanence wrote: January 3rd, 2021, 8:27 pmDespite all the insanity going on, we still live in an incredible time with boundless opportunities for self-realization. What else can one ask for?
"Self-realization"?? Which is suposed to mean what exactly? Earning a lot of money and buying stuff?
baker
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Re: Why Does The Left Destroy Everything It Touches?

Post by baker »

impermanence wrote: January 2nd, 2021, 1:13 pm
baker wrote: January 2nd, 2021, 8:27 am Oh? So you're the judge, jury, and executioner?

And you still can't copy-paste where I said what you claim I said. You're making stuff up.
I'm not going to defend claims you merely imagine I hold.
I don't even remember what we were talking about so you might wish to let it go, as well.
No.

You said:
impermanence wrote: December 28th, 2020, 1:16 pmI know you want to live in a world where everything is perfect
I requested a copy-paste of where I said that. You refused to provide one, and said I was "guilty by association".
And now you don't even know what you're talking about??!


You cannot just accuse people of things while having no basis for your accusation.
impermanence
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Re: Why Does The Left Destroy Everything It Touches?

Post by impermanence »

baker wrote: January 4th, 2021, 8:04 am
impermanence wrote: January 3rd, 2021, 8:27 pmDespite all the insanity going on, we still live in an incredible time with boundless opportunities for self-realization. What else can one ask for?
"Self-realization"?? Which is supposed to mean what exactly? Earning a lot of money and buying stuff?
It means figuring out what your purpose is on this planet.
impermanence
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Re: Why Does The Left Destroy Everything It Touches?

Post by impermanence »

baker wrote: January 4th, 2021, 8:13 am
impermanence wrote: January 2nd, 2021, 1:13 pmI don't even remember what we were talking about so you might wish to let it go, as well.
No.

You said:
impermanence wrote: December 28th, 2020, 1:16 pmI know you want to live in a world where everything is perfect
I requested a copy-paste of where I said that. You refused to provide one, and said I was "guilty by association".
And now you don't even know what you're talking about??!


You cannot just accuse people of things while having no basis for your accusation.
I am sure I had a good reason for suggesting what I did but to tell you the truth, it's not really worth looking back and re-hashing. Just the same, it seems as if left-leaning folks have a tendency to be a tab bit idealistic.

baker, don't take this stuff so personally. It's just a friendly conversation, not the Nuremberg trials.
Steve3007
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Re: Why Does The Left Destroy Everything It Touches?

Post by Steve3007 »

Greta wrote:You spoke of obesity. That's what happens when you have a tax system that makes highly processed foods full of sugar, trans fats and nitrates much cheaper than fresh food. It's what happens when you allow carcinogens to be put in what are treated as staple foods by millions. The responsibility goes both ways and, as a rule of thumb, the greater the power, the greater the responsibility.
Or, on a more basic level, it's what happens when market forces go to work on the evolved traits which influence human desires. We've evolved a love of sugar, fat and salt because historically these things have been rare. The ever increasing efficiency of market forces makes satisfying these desires at lower and lower cost, and easier and easier access, and therefore greater and greater profit, more and more possible. So people eat themselves to death. It's one of the many examples of where markets can solve problems very effectively in the short term with solutions that are self-destructive in the long term, to the same degree that they are effective in the short term. The big debate, of course, is what, if anything, to do about that.

Saying, as impermanence does, that people need to take greater personal responsibility for themselves in not a proposed solution. It's just the expression of a personal desire. It's like saying "people should stop fighting each other and love each other" is not a policy proposal for ending wars. It's something that would be nice if it happened. But it won't just happen.
impermanence
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Re: Why Does The Left Destroy Everything It Touches?

Post by impermanence »

Greta wrote: January 4th, 2021, 1:54 am Given how the table is tilted, I do not judge the obese or others who many judge as 'self destructive".
If you were treating the ravaging affects of diabetes, you might feel differently.
At this stage it appears that a sizeable portion of the US population feels they have so little to lose that they don't care what happens to democracy. They feel it has not served them, and they have lost interest, prepared to try autocracy - as long as it is their autocrat. If life seems worthless to them, they are not so inclined to fuss overly about health.
There is no doubt that a sizable percentage of the population is just along for the ride, but this has always been the case. It is always the few who do most of the work in any group. Why people have not taken their health more seriously is another question that nobody has any good answers for thus far.
Opportunities are largely gone for the many. Once an individual could make discoveries, now our job is to read about them. Aside from the occasional fluke and/or genius, individuals cannot hope to compete against teams of experts using state-of-the-art computing and other equipment.
There are ALWAYS opportunities for those willing to work hard enough. We grew up in a era of incredible prosperity where multiple opportunities were low hanging fruit. That's not the case anymore but that's the way it goes. There are still millions of people succeeding in this country [as in yours], you just have to work harder [and smarter].

And btw, most innovation still comes from individuals [and always will].

Greta, don't give up hope. Things are never as good or bad as they seem. Once a great deal of the dys-function is purged from the system, even better opportunities will present themselves. For now, people should conserve their resources and look within [where all the good stuff is anyway].
baker
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Re: Why Does The Left Destroy Everything It Touches?

Post by baker »

impermanence wrote: January 4th, 2021, 11:44 amI am sure I had a good reason for suggesting what I did but to tell you the truth, it's not really worth looking back and re-hashing. Just the same, it seems as if left-leaning folks have a tendency to be a tab bit idealistic.

baker, don't take this stuff so personally. It's just a friendly conversation, not the Nuremberg trials.
Don't play coy. This stopped being a "friendly conversation" when you accused me of something you refused to substantiate.

IOW, you're giving here, with your own behavior, an example of precisely that which you so criticize.
baker
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Re: Why Does The Left Destroy Everything It Touches?

Post by baker »

Steve3007 wrote: January 4th, 2021, 11:57 amSaying, as impermanence does, that people need to take greater personal responsibility for themselves in not a proposed solution. It's just the expression of a personal desire. It's like saying "people should stop fighting each other and love each other" is not a policy proposal for ending wars. It's something that would be nice if it happened. But it won't just happen.
Yeah. He sounds like someone who's drank the kool-aid of self-help books.
impermanence
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Re: Why Does The Left Destroy Everything It Touches?

Post by impermanence »

Steve3007 wrote: January 4th, 2021, 11:57 amSaying, as impermanence does, that people need to take greater personal responsibility for themselves in not a proposed solution. It's just the expression of a personal desire. It's like saying "people should stop fighting each other and love each other" is not a policy proposal for ending wars. It's something that would be nice if it happened. But it won't just happen.
You can't nor should you attempt to fix everybody. These are adults and they need to make their own decisions and suffer the consequences [or reap the rewards] of those choices. This is how people learn. You want to bail everybody out, then you will further the incredibly dys-functional adult-child culture that has been in place for several decades now.

Let people figure it out for themselves. As long as they do no harm to others, it's their life. Let them live it the way they see fit. This is freedom and sometimes it's a bit ugly, but the overall result is the best man can hope for...
Steve3007
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Re: Why Does The Left Destroy Everything It Touches?

Post by Steve3007 »

baker wrote:Yeah. He sounds like someone who's drank the kool-aid of self-help books.
I've got nothing against people expressing their personal desires. I just don't think they're very interesting. I think it's more interesting to consider problems and propose potential practicable solutions. Saying something like "people should take responsibility for their lives" or "people should stop fighting each other" or "I like ice cream" is not offensive. It's just not the basis of an argument. And I think we all like arguing around these parts.
baker
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Re: Why Does The Left Destroy Everything It Touches?

Post by baker »

impermanence wrote: January 4th, 2021, 12:09 pmYou can't nor should you attempt to fix everybody.
Who's saying we should?
These are adults and they need to make their own decisions and suffer the consequences [or reap the rewards] of those choices.
Which is exactly what they do. So you can't take any issue with anyone. Not the fat Americans, not the Leftists, noone.
Let people figure it out for themselves.
You're the one who's not letting them figure things out for themselves!!
impermanence
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Re: Why Does The Left Destroy Everything It Touches?

Post by impermanence »

Steve3007 wrote: January 4th, 2021, 12:12 pm
baker wrote:Yeah. He sounds like someone who's drank the kool-aid of self-help books.
I've got nothing against people expressing their personal desires. I just don't think they're very interesting. I think it's more interesting to consider problems and propose potential practicable solutions. Saying something like "people should take responsibility for their lives" or "people should stop fighting each other" or "I like ice cream" is not offensive. It's just not the basis of an argument. And I think we all like arguing around these parts.
If people would take complete responsibility for themselves, it would eliminate 90% of the problems they have [and the other 10% would be quite manageable].

This is wisdom passed down for millennia, not my feelings. It can't get anymore basic than this.
impermanence
Posts: 165
Joined: December 5th, 2020, 11:45 am

Re: Why Does The Left Destroy Everything It Touches?

Post by impermanence »

baker wrote: January 4th, 2021, 12:17 pm
impermanence wrote: January 4th, 2021, 12:09 pmYou can't nor should you attempt to fix everybody.
Who's saying we should?
These are adults and they need to make their own decisions and suffer the consequences [or reap the rewards] of those choices.
Which is exactly what they do. So you can't take any issue with anyone. Not the fat Americans, not the Leftists, noone.
Let people figure it out for themselves.
You're the one who's not letting them figure things out for themselves!!
The obese are a tremendous burden on the health care system [fiscally and otherwise]. I am saying that people should be completely responsible for their behavior and pay the consequences [not have everybody else pay]. This goes for individuals, government, corporations, etc.
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