Alasdair Macintyre Discussion
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Alasdair Macintyre Discussion
- LuckyR
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Re: Alasdair Macintyre Discussion
Can you summarize the highlights?sophiepereira wrote: ↑September 8th, 2021, 11:26 am Hello! I'm currently studying Alasdair Macintyre and was wondering if anyone would be up for a general discussion of his theories? I will be completing an essay on him soon and would love to share it with people if anyone is happy to give feedback. In the meanwhile, any opinions or critiques of his work, or reading suggestions would be massively appreciated
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Re: Alasdair Macintyre Discussion
‘Anyone who has succeeded in educating himself to truth about himself is permanently defended against the danger of immorality, even though his standard of morality may differ from that which is customary in society.’ (SIGMUND FREUD)
Examine the tension between truth for its own sake and virtue.
I'm pulling together an essay plan that discusses the concept of truth (or any other virtue) as being for its sake, and saying that actually this goal differs from an understanding of a 'virtue' as a whole. While in part, yes, each virtue should be pursued for its own value, to be able to conduct virtuous actions one needs to have a sense of how it fits into the larger good and how it contributes to the fulfilment of the human telos. In addition, if you only view a virtue as being pursued for its own sake, I'm arguing that you end up fixated on drilling into what the 'true' meaning of the virtue is and you get the same kind of attempts at universalism that the Enlightenment showed. Also - Macintyre is so far from Freud in that he follows Aristotle's focus on community ie. one can only achieve the education needed to enact a virtue through the community, and can only enact virtues if one relates to and acts towards other people.
I am then expanding further to explain how Macintyre's focus on tradition also extends out from Freud's focus on individuality. Our understanding of the virtues is constantly developing from within respective traditions that engage in rational debate in order to progress. He concludes that our only way of getting closer to an understanding of the virtues that will fulfil our human telos is actually by engaging with this macro process. It is through this process itself that we come to inadvertently begin displaying the very virtues that fulfil our telos. Thus, an individual cannot actually achieve a virtue as an individual, and certainly not if they only pursue one 'for its own sake' without the wider viewpoint that each virtue is part of a developing process.
Hope this helps! Thanks for your response
- LuckyR
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Re: Alasdair Macintyre Discussion
Well as you know many are ends driven (telos, in your vernacular) others are means driven (perhaps the virtues that you mention). Only the pompous would pretend that one is superior to the other. Their pursuit is more of a style thing, not dissimilar to arguing that the glass is half full vs half empty, or that some learn better through explanation vs mimicry.sophiepereira wrote: ↑September 9th, 2021, 6:41 am Of course! So I'm focusing on this question:
‘Anyone who has succeeded in educating himself to truth about himself is permanently defended against the danger of immorality, even though his standard of morality may differ from that which is customary in society.’ (SIGMUND FREUD)
Examine the tension between truth for its own sake and virtue.
I'm pulling together an essay plan that discusses the concept of truth (or any other virtue) as being for its sake, and saying that actually this goal differs from an understanding of a 'virtue' as a whole. While in part, yes, each virtue should be pursued for its own value, to be able to conduct virtuous actions one needs to have a sense of how it fits into the larger good and how it contributes to the fulfilment of the human telos. In addition, if you only view a virtue as being pursued for its own sake, I'm arguing that you end up fixated on drilling into what the 'true' meaning of the virtue is and you get the same kind of attempts at universalism that the Enlightenment showed. Also - Macintyre is so far from Freud in that he follows Aristotle's focus on community ie. one can only achieve the education needed to enact a virtue through the community, and can only enact virtues if one relates to and acts towards other people.
I am then expanding further to explain how Macintyre's focus on tradition also extends out from Freud's focus on individuality. Our understanding of the virtues is constantly developing from within respective traditions that engage in rational debate in order to progress. He concludes that our only way of getting closer to an understanding of the virtues that will fulfil our human telos is actually by engaging with this macro process. It is through this process itself that we come to inadvertently begin displaying the very virtues that fulfil our telos. Thus, an individual cannot actually achieve a virtue as an individual, and certainly not if they only pursue one 'for its own sake' without the wider viewpoint that each virtue is part of a developing process.
Hope this helps! Thanks for your response
Although I was ends driven in my youth, I am definitely means driven now, and having done both, focusing on process seems more circumspect.
- Leontiskos
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Re: Alasdair Macintyre Discussion
That sounds like an interesting paper. On Aristotle or Aquinas' (or MacIntyre's) view virtue is a well-balanced ecosystem that must always be held in proper tension. Truth, or any virtue, emphasized too much in itself will unbalance the ecosystem and lead to vice.sophiepereira wrote: ↑September 9th, 2021, 6:41 amI'm pulling together an essay plan that discusses the concept of truth (or any other virtue) as being for its sake, and saying that actually this goal differs from an understanding of a 'virtue' as a whole.
But is Freud's admonition towards self-knowledge ("know thyself") a threat to the virtue ecosystem when it is emphasized too strongly? My first thought is that Freud is referring to something more like speculative knowledge than practical knowledge, and excessive speculative knowledge in any one area need not necessarily unbalance the virtue ecosystem (since virtue is related to practical knowledge).
Socrates: He's like that, Hippias, not refined. He's garbage, he cares about nothing but the truth.
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