Females in philosophy

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Re: Females in philosophy

Post by psyreporter »

JackDaydream wrote: June 24th, 2022, 5:07 am Unfortunately, there are some misogynistic and transphobic people on TPF, although the moderators do challenge them. Even here, there are people who are narrow minded and nasty, including what are regarded as trolls. Unfortunately, sites such as these attract all kinds of prejudiced people and it seems that homophobia and transphobia still exist. I am bisexual and get really frustrated. I do challenge certain views at time but it can be hard work.

Best wishes,
Jack
I wonder what might have motivated them to ban Terrapin Station. He is a serious user who comments critically and he is a philosophy teacher.
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Re: Females in philosophy

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A re-post of a comment on females in philosophy by the founder and Editor-in-Chief of the magazine Philosophy Now on the forum of that magazine.
RickLewis wrote: Theory (@psyreporter), I attended a philosophy postgrad conference in Reading, UK, about a decade ago, to take part in a panel discussion. One of the other sessions was a presentation by Dr Marianne Janack (I think) and a colleague on why there are so few women in academic philosophy departments, and indeed in philosophy in general. A lot of actual research had clearly gone into the paper. I don't have a copy of it but maybe it is obtainable from Dr Janack?

From memory, the paper said that there are a LOT of women undergraduates studying philosophy - maybe even a majority of all philosophy undergraduates. Sadly the proportion of women is steadily whittled down as they climb the academic hierarchy. There aren't quite so many female philosophy postgrads. There are an even smaller proportion of junior lecturers in philosophy, and by the time you get to professors, the proportion is very small. (Sorry I can't recall any actual numbers). This steady shift in the gender balance with academic seniority is more like that found in science subjects such as physics and chemistry rather than in other humanities subjects, where the proportion of female academics remains high at all levels. The paper examined various proposed explanations. There is the possibility that a greater proportion of women than of men drop out when they have children. There is also the more psychological explanation that when members of group A are a tiny proportion within any activity B, then new group A people joining that activity tend to feel that they "don't belong", that it isn't really for them, and have more inhibitions about pushing themselves forwards. I don't know. So structural discouragement rather the the structural exclusion you describe - though no doubt that exists too.

In terms of Philosophy Now magazine, for what it is worth, the proportion of our subscribers who are women is hard to gauge accurately but is definitely much higher than 20%. I'd say it is more like 35 or 40%. However, looking at the "letters to the editors" we receive, the proportion is much smaller - probably only about 10%. My own theory is that men are just more anxious to assert themselves in any forum. Certainly the "letters to the editor" we receive from women tend on average to be better than the "letters to the editor" we receive from men, which might suggest that women write only when they have something good to say. (No disrespect to the many excellent letters we publish which are from male readers, but they are the cream of the crop and many others aren't published due to lack of space.) Most full-length articles we receive (probably about 80%) are by men. Some of the very best articles we've published in the last 30 years have however been by women.

Rick Lewis
(Editor-in-Chief, Philosophy Now)


p.s Your list of women in philosophy links looks useful. Can I add, the Society for Women in Philosophy? (SWiP) They have several websites in different parts of the world, eg https://www.swip-ireland.com , https://www.swipuk.org and http://cswip.ca

Another ps. Theory, I completely agree with you about why it matters that women are somehow discouraged from engaging with philosophy in the same numbers as men. I don't know why women tend to specialise in (and be highly influential in) moral philosophy compared with other areas of philosophy. Is the explanation again something social or to do with philosophy's institutional structure, or with the way women are brought up to see themselves as nurturing and caring ? I don't know.

Original: https://forum.philosophynow.org/viewtop ... 90#p528290

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Issue 147: The Happiness and Meaning issue
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Rick Lewis launched Philosophy Now in 1991, the first ever philosophy magazine worldwide. This new initiative facilitated a wave of popular philosophy activities in Great Britain, the United States, and elsewhere, which has since strengthened, and to the present owes much of its impetus to Lewis' work.
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https://philosophynow.org/issues/147/Ha ... nd_Meaning

About the founder of the magazine:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Lewis_(journalist)
https://philosophynow.academia.edu/RickLewis
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Re: Females in philosophy

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psyreporter wrote: June 24th, 2022, 5:47 am A re-post of a comment on females in philosophy by the founder and Editor-in-Chief of the magazine Philosophy Now on the forum of that magazine.
I work (when I can) with a program at my school aimed at helping women stay in STEM fields (as was mentioned in the excerpt, we experience women leaving physics in the same way).

I'm about to graduate with my MS (though I'm doing PhD immediately as part of a bridge program), and there's only one other woman in my grad physics classes. There were a lot more in undergrad.

I think the phenomenon mentioned in the excerpt about not feeling like one belongs when they're in a minority could be pretty apt. I often don't. Compound that with normal grad student anxiety (imposter syndrome) and I can totally understand why women have a greater psychological burden as the odd ones out.
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool."
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Re: Females in philosophy

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Not to toot my own horn or anything (god I hate that phrase, thanks Dad), but I consider myself a fairly strong-willed person. I think this trait has let me survive despite the psychological pressures. I have a good friend and family support system too. Not having kids (lesbian, and no desire to adopt) helps too.
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool."
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Re: Females in philosophy

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psyreporter wrote: June 24th, 2022, 5:10 am I shared a post about the founder of that forum a few posts back. I am not certain with regard prejudice on topics. I know that @Atla is a very active user on that forum which whom you've communicated on this forum.

There is also a user on this forum that seeks to start a new initiative.

viewtopic.php?p=400270#p400270
I was active there before it went to hell. Now I'm only doing some clinical psychology research there as a layman
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Re: Females in philosophy

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Atla wrote: June 24th, 2022, 10:21 am I was active there before it went to hell. Now I'm only doing some clinical psychology research there as a layman
I felt like I needed a shower after peeking in the gender philosophy section. It's just a long rambling stream of misogyny in there. Also LGBTQ+ hate.
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Re: Females in philosophy

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I am really sick of misogyny. I’m sick of having to work twice as hard to even be considered as competent as a man. I’m sick of being talked over, I’m sick of being interrupted, I’m sick of hearing my talking points come out of someone else’s mouth while they get the credit. I’m sick of watching circles if men hem and haw over how women are like this, no women are actually like that. I’m sick of the reverse where other men overprotect and treat us like delicate flowers that can’t defend ourselves. I’m sick of men making passes during absolutely inappropriate times like in school and professional settings. (I don’t mind when people shoot their shot as long as they understand what “no” means and don’t make it awkward, but some men — and I do mean men because even as an out lesbian I haven’t experienced this from women — have no concept of appropriateness).

I should clarify that this board is mostly fine (and this thread has been OK), but I’m just venting. This has been a bad day for women in the US and I guess I’ve been seething about it, probably more than I even introspected.

What triggered this in particular was looking at that PhilosophyNow board’s gender politics section again, like some kind of idiot.
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool."
--Richard Feynman
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Re: Females in philosophy

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Astro Cat wrote: June 25th, 2022, 4:45 am
Atla wrote: June 24th, 2022, 10:21 am I was active there before it went to hell. Now I'm only doing some clinical psychology research there as a layman
I felt like I needed a shower after peeking in the gender philosophy section. It's just a long rambling stream of misogyny in there. Also LGBTQ+ hate.
Do you have a list of philosophy related forums that are LGBTQ+ friendly?

A suggestion is Philosophical Vegan Forum: https://philosophicalvegan.com/

Philosophical Vegan Forum
Philosophical Vegan Forum
veganforum.png (3.11 KiB) Viewed 1168 times

I have been banned often for questioning sensitive topics such as the Big Bang theory, atheism (as a dogmatic anti-religion religion) and plant sentience.

Upon registration on philosophicalvegan.com I was promised that no user was ever banned on that forum, however, a discussion on plant sentience resulted in accusations (personal attacks) which in my opinion were not justified, which ended the discussion about plant sentience.

Plant sentience is one of the most sensitive topics within the vegan community. Plant sentience appears to be seen as one of the main anti-veganism arguments, or at least as an argument that is used by 'anti-vegans' to attack vegans.

A topic about the subject: "Plant sentience" and veganism

Academic philosophers are reporting about the occurrence of the issue in which vegans and animal right activists become angry and aggressive against people who intend to argue on behalf of 🌱 plant sentience.

Philosophy professor Michael Marder mentioned the following response from animal rights activists to his argument that plants are sentient beings.

Philosopher: Plants are sentient beings that should be treated with respect
His claim that a plant is an “intelligent, social, complex being” (i.e. sentient) has been contested by some biologists, but a stronger reaction has come from animal-rights activists and vegans who fear their cause is undermined by extending a duty of respect to plants.
https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/unth ... -1.1965980
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Re: Females in philosophy

Post by Astro Cat »

psyreporter wrote: June 26th, 2022, 11:41 am
Do you have a list of philosophy related forums that are LGBTQ+ friendly?

A suggestion is Philosophical Vegan Forum: https://philosophicalvegan.com/


veganforum.png


I have been banned often for questioning sensitive topics such as the Big Bang theory, atheism (as a dogmatic anti-religion religion) and plant sentience.

Upon registration on philosophicalvegan.com I was promised that no user was ever banned on that forum, however, a discussion on plant sentience resulted in accusations (personal attacks) which in my opinion were not justified, which ended the discussion about plant sentience.

Plant sentience is one of the most sensitive topics within the vegan community. Plant sentience appears to be seen as one of the main anti-veganism arguments, or at least as an argument that is used by 'anti-vegans' to attack vegans.

A topic about the subject: "Plant sentience" and veganism

Academic philosophers are reporting about the occurrence of the issue in which vegans and animal right activists become angry and aggressive against people who intend to argue on behalf of 🌱 plant sentience.

Philosophy professor Michael Marder mentioned the following response from animal rights activists to his argument that plants are sentient beings.

Philosopher: Plants are sentient beings that should be treated with respect
His claim that a plant is an “intelligent, social, complex being” (i.e. sentient) has been contested by some biologists, but a stronger reaction has come from animal-rights activists and vegans who fear their cause is undermined by extending a duty of respect to plants.
https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/unth ... -1.1965980
I’m not familiar with any other boards other than The Philosophy Forum (which I can’t join because it requires a code) and Philosophy Now (which I’ve had posts sitting requiring a moderator to approve for days now).

I am not a vegan, so I doubt I’d want to go to a vegan forum. Sometimes I’d like to be, because I do worry about animal suffering. If lab grown meat is efficient to grow and nutritious, then I would love for that to be more common.
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool."
--Richard Feynman
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Re: Females in philosophy

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Astro Cat Do you intend to study philosophy academically? Do you see value in the study for astrophysics or cosmology?

Do you like this forum?
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Re: Females in philosophy

Post by Astro Cat »

psyreporter wrote: June 27th, 2022, 5:40 am @Astro Cat Do you intend to study philosophy academically? Do you see value in the study for astrophysics or cosmology?

Do you like this forum?
I will probably never have the time to devote to an academic pursuit to philosophy, but I do read philosophical academic literature on a "when I feel like it" basis. I use Zotero as a reference organizer and I do have a philosophy folder for when I come across or look up philosophical literature.

I do value philosophy a lot for astro and cosmo. I feel like trying to do science without at least thinking seriously about things like metaphysics, epistemology, ontology, is like trying to play a game without understanding the rules; I think it can lead a person in all sorts of wrong directions. It becomes critically important when we look at things like how to interpret quantum mechanics for instance.

I'm reminded of a meme that has this form:
Person 1: Why do you think philosophy is important?
Person 2: Well, why do you think science is important?
Person 1: Well becau--
Person 2: --aaaaaaand, you are doing philosophy.

I like this forum! The people here are nice, it seems there are interesting posters and topics. I haven't seen cesspits of misogyny like I saw over in Philosophy Now (where I still can't post because I wonder whether there are any active mods or anything, ha!). I don't feel like I constantly have to defend my personhood or fight to be taken seriously here as a woman (to loop it back to the original topic for a moment).
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool."
--Richard Feynman
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