Logic, Brains, Computers and AI, what if?

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Roobaba
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Logic, Brains, Computers and AI, what if?

Post by Roobaba »

I spend my time trying to see how we ended up where we are now, these unenlightened demented times of the twenty-first century, what lead us along this seemingly inevitable path, heading towards a future of demented banality. The great H.G. Wells was right in his fantastic and incredible first novel, the very first 'scientific romance'.. The Time Machine in the far future humanity will end up in an 'idiocracy' (check out the film) of the Morlocks and the Eloi. Could it have been any other way? What could have happened if the Vienna Circle survived, and thrived, if Alan Turing had lived to old age, would we now have had AI running our world, keeping us on a path of continued future survival, or possibly doom and extinction..?
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LuckyR
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Re: Logic, Brains, Computers and AI, what if?

Post by LuckyR »

Roobaba wrote: January 22nd, 2022, 5:06 am I spend my time trying to see how we ended up where we are now, these unenlightened demented times of the twenty-first century, what lead us along this seemingly inevitable path, heading towards a future of demented banality. The great H.G. Wells was right in his fantastic and incredible first novel, the very first 'scientific romance'.. The Time Machine in the far future humanity will end up in an 'idiocracy' (check out the film) of the Morlocks and the Eloi. Could it have been any other way? What could have happened if the Vienna Circle survived, and thrived, if Alan Turing had lived to old age, would we now have had AI running our world, keeping us on a path of continued future survival, or possibly doom and extinction..?
No disrespect to Wells but he didn't (couldn't) have a good handle on 2022 let alone 800,000. At best the Morlocks and Eloi were symbolic of what Wells was commenting on in his own time (or pure entertainment). I do agree that the initial splash of social media tech has dumbed down the population and if things continued along the current trajectory without the influence of other, opposing forces we would all be in a very sorry state. But since history tells us that there are always unseen future complications ahead that will alter things unpredictably, I have no reason to believe that will not continue to be the case.
"As usual... it depends."
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Sculptor1
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Re: Logic, Brains, Computers and AI, what if?

Post by Sculptor1 »

Roobaba wrote: January 22nd, 2022, 5:06 am I spend my time trying to see how we ended up where we are now, these unenlightened demented times of the twenty-first century, what lead us along this seemingly inevitable path, heading towards a future of demented banality. The great H.G. Wells was right in his fantastic and incredible first novel, the very first 'scientific romance'.. The Time Machine in the far future humanity will end up in an 'idiocracy' (check out the film) of the Morlocks and the Eloi. Could it have been any other way? What could have happened if the Vienna Circle survived, and thrived, if Alan Turing had lived to old age, would we now have had AI running our world, keeping us on a path of continued future survival, or possibly doom and extinction..?
I think this is nothing more than an arefact of perception. The Moorlocks and the Eloi are features of his interest in socialism and a dire warning about the way things could go for the elites, whilst "Idiocracy" is a comedy and an unlikely outcome.
My gut feeling here is that the spectrum of intelligence is much the same as it was in Well's time. We simly do not hear from the masses of that time, yet today, everyone from geniuses to morons have a voice in the Internet so that the perception that we live in a "demented banality" is an artefactual of the laughingly called "Information Super Highway", which is the Internet.
The fact is that people are far more educated now than at any time in history.
The Vienna Circle falied because they were irrelevant. They disappeared down a rabbit hole of their own blinkered logic which failed to address the human condition.
An AI is only as good as the vision of those programming the machine. Literature has many examples where we were warned about the folly of reliance on such an instrument.
It might be of interest to look this up.
"The Machine Stops" is a science fiction short story (12,300 words) by E. M. Forster first in 1909.
Roobaba
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Joined: January 3rd, 2022, 7:20 pm

Re: Logic, Brains, Computers and AI, what if?

Post by Roobaba »

Interesting views, I appreciate taking time to consider and reply to my likely less than well thought out post, as a 'non-philosopher' and a 'non-scientist' (I'm not sure what I should consider myself to be, if indeed I should 'be' anything - I am happy with who/what I am, please excuse me if I challenge the viewpoint you hold on a certain specific 'subject area' that may or may not be too extensive, I do not mean to come across as any sort of 'expert' but I am deeply interested in H.G. Wells and will try to 'further his cause' based on my aquired expanding 'specialist knowledge' which I consider now to be superior to many, to the vast majority in fact - I have not joined the H.G. Wells Society for the simple reason 'they' have no aim to 'change the world' merely to study the life of HGW in great detail and write about and document what is found - for me it's the same as it was for HGW he was frustrated with the Fabian Society for having no aim to do no more than simply study and think about the society they lived in and suggest ways to change/improve it) I rely on my life experience and my sense of fairness and desire to see everyone as equal. When I make reference to 'The Time Machine' I do so to illustrate the most likely 'popular in fiction' (story books as I call them) example to get across what I am aiming to have thought about. I'd like to make more than lightly dismiss HGW's 'great novel' as suggesting that 'at best the Morlocks and Eloi were symbolic of what Wells was commenting on in his own time (or pure entertainment) - I believe it can, and should, have meaning for us now in our time, to help guide our world leaders (Winston Churchill was said to have read all of HGW's published works, and used/quoted from them in his speeches) - now more than ever despite us all being 'more educated', even the 'educated elite' need to learn more than their limited and limiting costly 'establishment indoctrination' into the governing class.

I would suggest that basing our future on 'history' is at best a misguided and 'less than scientific' way of considering our future.. flawed logic?

I admit I currently have a limited knowledge/understanding of the Vienna Circle and how/why they failed to achieve their objectives, 'because they were irrelevant' is most likely not the whole story (but may well be), I'm sure they influenced those that came after, and we could take 'the best bits' to help us in our quest (my quest) to change how the future unfolds. Maybe we should endeavour to reconcile logic and 'programming the machine' with the human condition to achieve a superior intellect?

What has not been established so far to my curious mind, is what could have happened in computing/AI had Alan Turing not died so young.

Sculptor1 thank you for the recommendation, I will look up "The Machine Stops" by E. M. Forster.
Roobaba
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Joined: January 3rd, 2022, 7:20 pm

Re: Logic, Brains, Computers and AI, what if?

Post by Roobaba »

When I refer to The Time Machine, simply a novel (a story book) I am also by my intention, including everything that H.G. Wells thought and wrote about.
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