The tit-for-tat trade between man and woman

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heracleitos
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Re: The tit-for-tat trade between man and woman

Post by heracleitos »

LuckyR wrote: September 18th, 2022, 3:06 am You do have a grasp in your area of experience, namely what drives women in desperate financial predicaments.
Yeah, I get rid of my sexual tensions and they get rid of their financial tensions. Imagine that we did not trade? That would clearly be a bad outcome for both sides. We would all start living under tension! That is why I am a staunch supporter of sexual capitalism. As usual, let the free market solve the problem!
LuckyR wrote: September 18th, 2022, 3:06 am Your error is extrapolating that to women with educational, intellectual, cultural and yes financial and professional means.
You didn't read that properly. I did not make that error. I don't hire these women for the job because they already have a job.

I am definitely not in the business of poaching someone else's wage slaves. Just like your CEO, I am top G with my own minions, underlings, and sycophants. We mutually have a gentleman's agreement that I don't fish in his pond and that he doesn't fish in mine.
LuckyR wrote: September 18th, 2022, 3:06 am Somebody is getting the attractive, educated, "rich country" women, but I guess the manosphere isn't.
In this street alone, there are hundreds of pretty, young women. It is obvious that someone else is getting them. If they all came to me, I would surely get a sexual indigestion.

The way it works, is that right after getting sexual tension relief, a man does not even want new tension relief because there is simply no tension at that point. That alone is already a good reason why I am not interested in dealing with the whole street. Hence, I only recruit the absolutely prettiest ones for this purpose, and I reserve my inventory of sexual tensions just for that particular rotation of cuties.
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Re: The tit-for-tat trade between man and woman

Post by Alias »

heracleitos wrote: September 15th, 2022, 11:28 pm
She [Borte] seems to have been an honorable and respectable woman. This was quite often the case for traditional women. In my opinion, they were generally honorable back then.
And her old man was smart enough to use the asset of her wisdom. A very few men, and the rare, successful monarchs were, back then.

{quote]Some women are indeed of great help to their man. I don't think that anybody doubts that. However, in my impression, this may not necessarily be the general case, especially not for modern women.[/quote]
Nothing's changed in the range of intelligence, in the relationship of men and women, in the ratio of smart to dumb, tolerant to bigoted, pragmatic to dogmatic people. Your impression is a product of your cultural bias.
By the way, the fact that she had four sons is clear evidence that she took it to heart to provide ample sexual tension relief to her man, while accepting an ample allowance for her efforts. If she hadn't, I doubt that the great khan would have been interested in her advice either. Seriously, first things first.
Cute. Dumb, but cute.
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Re: The tit-for-tat trade between man and woman

Post by Alias »

Oops, wrong bracket.
Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit atrocities. - Voltaire
heracleitos
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Re: The tit-for-tat trade between man and woman

Post by heracleitos »

Alias wrote: September 21st, 2022, 1:28 am Cute. Dumb, but cute.
Unlike in other species, in our species, males rapidly build up sexual tension starting from the last episode of sexual intercourse. Therefore, a male will indeed seek to keep a willing female handy for the purpose of sexual tension relief.

This is the core principle that keeps nuclear families together in our species.

I agree that it is a rather dumb biological hack, but hey, it works.

Conversely, without this phenomenon of rapid sexual tension build-up, males in our species would have very little to no interest in its females. Even though a male always ends up going back to a willing female, after relief he also seeks to go away as soon as possible. I guess that in some ways, he actually can't stand her. Furthermore, the truth of the matter is that a male vastly prefers to spend his days with other males while spending as little time as possible with females.
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Re: The tit-for-tat trade between man and woman

Post by Alias »

heracleitos wrote: September 21st, 2022, 3:41 am Unlike in other species, in our species, males rapidly build up sexual tension starting from the last episode of sexual intercourse. Therefore, a male will indeed seek to keep a willing female handy for the purpose of sexual tension relief.
The stupid ones will. They might resort to anyone 'handy', including prostitutes; less expensively, they may resort to the handiest handy helper of all, which is a whole lot safer in every way.
This is the core principle that keeps nuclear families together in our species.
Naw. Sex has never done that. What keeps men stuck to a woman - even when she gets old and fat and loses interest in him sexually - is emotional dependency. Humans are emotionally needier than other species. They need a partner who understands and cares about them, no matter what happens, no matter whether they succeed or fail in the world, whether they're happy or sad, up or down, triumphant or humiliated. They need to share and they need support. Humans are terrible at being alone.

You're a sad little specimen, not having that!
Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit atrocities. - Voltaire
heracleitos
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Re: The tit-for-tat trade between man and woman

Post by heracleitos »

Alias wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 12:39 am
heracleitos wrote: September 21st, 2022, 3:41 am Unlike in other species, in our species, males rapidly build up sexual tension starting from the last episode of sexual intercourse. Therefore, a male will indeed seek to keep a willing female handy for the purpose of sexual tension relief.
The stupid ones will. They might resort to anyone 'handy', including prostitutes; less expensively, they may resort to the handiest handy helper of all, which is a whole lot safer in every way.
In my experience, the more you are financially successful as a man, the more you will find that women volunteer to be one of your sexual tension relief go to girls.
Alias wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 12:39 am
This is the core principle that keeps nuclear families together in our species.
Naw. Sex has never done that. What keeps men stuck to a woman - even when she gets old and fat and loses interest in him sexually - is emotional dependency. Humans are emotionally needier than other species. They need a partner who understands and cares about them, no matter what happens, no matter whether they succeed or fail in the world, whether they're happy or sad, up or down, triumphant or humiliated. They need to share and they need support. Humans are terrible at being alone.
In my experience women are repulsed by men who are weak or needy. Therefore, the last person I would go to with "emotional problems" is a sexual recruit. A male friend (or relative) is a much safer "shoulder to cry on". Again, we men do indeed have "friends", but we will never consider women to be our "friends" because they simply are not.
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Sy Borg
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Re: The tit-for-tat trade between man and woman

Post by Sy Borg »

Many of the friction points between genders (and between generations) have been well explained by evolutionary game theory: [url]http://www.nielsen.sites.oasis.unc.edu/soci111/m6/soci111m6.html[/url]
heracleitos
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Re: The tit-for-tat trade between man and woman

Post by heracleitos »

Sy Borg wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 2:59 am Many of the friction points between genders (and between generations) have been well explained by evolutionary game theory: [url]http://www.nielsen.sites.oasis.unc.edu/soci111/m6/soci111m6.html[/url]
The link contains a fantastic summary of ideas that are common currency in the manosphere.
Bateman wrote: Main results of A. J. Bateman's experiments with fruit flies: females gain nothing by mating with more than one male; males gain by mating with many females.
Female promiscuity is some kind of useless depravity that does not make sense. It is the hallmark of a sick society.
Bateman wrote: Greater dependence of males for their fertility on frequency of insemination [is] an almost universal attribute of sexual reproduction" leading to the evolution of "an undiscriminatory eagerness in the male and a discriminatory passivity in the female.
In humanity, rapid sexual tension build-up is also a way of making the male return to the female. He will indeed get sexual tension relief, but the real biological purpose is that she will be able to extract financial tension relief.
Researchers wrote: The absence of estrus (= distinct period of sexual receptivity, or "heat") in the human female reduces her mate's ability to monitor her sexual activity; an influential theory is that estrus has been lost in humans because its absence gives a female more control over the paternity of her offspring.
Disagreed.

In my opinion, this is not the reason why the female body hides the fact that she is fertile ("estrus"). The woman needs to man to come back more often than a just a few days a month. Lots of women (and dependent children) would go starving, if the female did not hide her estrus. Hence, the man will build up sexual tension all throughout the month and have sex with the woman, even if she is not fertile, because she possibly could be. That gives the woman more opportunity during the whole month to extract financial tension relief out of the man.
Researchers wrote: Some studies using genetic testing have found high rates of illegitimate paternity in contemporary human populations
Agreed. Modern women in the West make their own money and are not dependent for their survival on a providing husband. When a woman actually is dependent for her survival on her man, she is effectively walking on egg shells. Hence, she will more carefully hesitate to cuckold him. If you can instantly cut her off financially, you probably won't have to.
Researchers wrote: These clues suggest that the Madame Bovary strategy has evolved to be part of the behavioral repertoire of human females.
Yes, the problem can never be fully reined in. But then again, that is why you must always be ready to repudiate both her and her fake offspring.
Daly & Wilson wrote:
The assumption that it may be better for a female to be the second wife to a wealthy male than the first wife to a poor male is part of what theory?
83.4% of human societies allow polygyny (as either a usual or occasional marital arrangement); however, the majority of human marriages are monogamous (can you see why?)
This can be explained by a massive shortage of wealthy men at the top of the income scale. Most women will have to settle for latching on to a much poorer monogamous workhorse.
Daly & Wilson wrote: In 67.4% of 860 societies in Ethnographic Atlas, the groom or his kin "pays" for the wife through bride-price, bride-service, or direct exchange of women; dowry exists in only 2.6% of societies.
Similarly as during the mating season in the animal kingdom, a group of human males may attack the male relatives of the females that they want to mate with ("the origin of war"), as these relatives (father, brother, ...) prevent them from mating with the girls that they protect. The more civilized solution to getting hold of these females is to bribe the family of the maiden with a bride-price instead.

The dowry is the solution to completely different problem.

The higher, entitled and noble classes in society actually prefer to breed with the prettiest girls in the lower classes. The fathers and brothers of the girls in the higher classes do not like this. As a form of protectionism, these noblemen will bribe the other noblemen with a dowry into accepting their noble daughters as wives. They will also insist that the offspring with girls from the lower classes cannot inherit from a nobleman: neither his wealth, nor his titles, nor his social status. Only the offspring of a noble daughter qualifies for that. This system is specifically meant to prevent the social mobility of pretty girls in the lower classes. Furthermore, the bride price is usually outlawed in this kind of society, because it would too much facilitate the practice of noblemen turning to pretty girls in the lower classes for higher-quality sexual tension relief.

The existence of a bride price suggests that such society is fundamentally egalitarian. The absence of a bride price (along with the existence of a dowry) suggests that such society is organized along a hereditary caste system.
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3017Metaphysician
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Re: The tit-for-tat trade between man and woman

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heracleitos wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 2:29 am
Alias wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 12:39 am
heracleitos wrote: September 21st, 2022, 3:41 am Unlike in other species, in our species, males rapidly build up sexual tension starting from the last episode of sexual intercourse. Therefore, a male will indeed seek to keep a willing female handy for the purpose of sexual tension relief.
The stupid ones will. They might resort to anyone 'handy', including prostitutes; less expensively, they may resort to the handiest handy helper of all, which is a whole lot safer in every way.
In my experience, the more you are financially successful as a man, the more you will find that women volunteer to be one of your sexual tension relief go to girls.
Alias wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 12:39 am
This is the core principle that keeps nuclear families together in our species.
Naw. Sex has never done that. What keeps men stuck to a woman - even when she gets old and fat and loses interest in him sexually - is emotional dependency. Humans are emotionally needier than other species. They need a partner who understands and cares about them, no matter what happens, no matter whether they succeed or fail in the world, whether they're happy or sad, up or down, triumphant or humiliated. They need to share and they need support. Humans are terrible at being alone.
In my experience women are repulsed by men who are weak or needy. Therefore, the last person I would go to with "emotional problems" is a sexual recruit. A male friend (or relative) is a much safer "shoulder to cry on". Again, we men do indeed have "friends", but we will never consider women to be our "friends" because they simply are not.
HS!

I had a sexual relationship with a gal a few years back (who was enlisted in the military/was a lead singer in the military rock band) who told me that men and women can't be friends because it involves sex. At first, I was a bit taken back, but have since realized some truth to that. In the end, seems like it's all about the stick and the hole. Sounds crude, but sex matters.

Similarly, when you suggested above that the more financially successful the man is, the more women volunteer their services, that reminded me of this. We've indeed seen this behavior in terms of what causes people to do what, and is somewhat puzzling. For instance, if women don't want to be treated as objects, yet they diminish the object's attractiveness over money, does that translate to:

1. Women don't really care what the guy looks like, since as long as he has money and a well oiled happy-stick, she's good to go. (She can close her eyes while having sex.)
2. Or, she really enjoys sex and is not all that particular with how the 'object' looks (the man).
3. Or, she doesn't really care about romance (which is totally cool) because it's just a stick (similar to her vibrator) with a face on it. She's instead putting more emphasis on the money.
4. Or, she's not really attracted to the guy, but doesn't care to work and will likely have someone on the side anyway in order to fulfill her sexual or romantic desires. (That isn't as crazy as you might think because I've heard guys say similar things about getting married and having someone on the side as a normal everyday thing; pretty sad.)

Perhaps there's some false dichotomies in all that, not sure. Hopefully someone will correct it. I'm more concerned with what causes men and women to want to get together in the first place. I'm assuming it's all about romance (which is awesome), but am confused about the idea of objectification, along with the basic existential need to get it on!

Maybe the million dollar question is (no pun intended), if a man has million's, it seems like he can 'objectivity' look pretty bad yet still attract 'objectively' pleasing partner's. We see that phenomenon quite a bit...
“Concerning matter, we have been all wrong. What we have called matter is energy, whose vibration has been so lowered as to be perceptible to the senses. There is no matter.” "Spooky Action at a Distance"
― Albert Einstein
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Re: The tit-for-tat trade between man and woman

Post by Alias »

heracleitos wrote: September 22nd, 2022, 2:29 am In my experience women are repulsed by men who are weak or needy.
Everyone is needy. That doesn't make them weak.
Again, we men do indeed have "friends", but we will never consider women to be our "friends" because they simply are not.
You make men sound truly pathetic. In my experience, lasting, happy marriages are friendships. Looks like you'll never have one. But that's okay, because all you want is to get your rocks off. While they're young enough to go off on demand. After that, just lonely old age.
Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit atrocities. - Voltaire
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Re: The tit-for-tat trade between man and woman

Post by Sy Borg »

Women were often objectified by ancient theists and philosophers in patriarchal societies, and that influence lingers on.
heracleitos
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Re: The tit-for-tat trade between man and woman

Post by heracleitos »

Sy Borg wrote: September 24th, 2022, 1:28 am Women were often objectified by ancient theists and philosophers in patriarchal societies, and that influence lingers on.
The modern West is not the norm. Approximately 80% of the world lives according to ancient traditional values. That is the part of the world worth geomaxxing to. Furthermore, it is quite likely that by the end of this winter the economy of the EU and UK will be no more. In all practical terms, half of the West will then be no more. In my opinion, the other half will soon follow.
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Re: The tit-for-tat trade between man and woman

Post by Sy Borg »

heracleitos wrote: September 24th, 2022, 3:11 am
Sy Borg wrote: September 24th, 2022, 1:28 am Women were often objectified by ancient theists and philosophers in patriarchal societies, and that influence lingers on.
The modern West is not the norm. Approximately 80% of the world lives according to ancient traditional values. That is the part of the world worth geomaxxing to. Furthermore, it is quite likely that by the end of this winter the economy of the EU and UK will be no more. In all practical terms, half of the West will then be no more. In my opinion, the other half will soon follow.
Oh yes, and your glorious age of unbridled patriarchy shall last forevermore, never changing, growing or evolving. We know the story.
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Re: The tit-for-tat trade between man and woman

Post by LuckyR »

Sy Borg wrote: September 24th, 2022, 3:47 am
heracleitos wrote: September 24th, 2022, 3:11 am
Sy Borg wrote: September 24th, 2022, 1:28 am Women were often objectified by ancient theists and philosophers in patriarchal societies, and that influence lingers on.
The modern West is not the norm. Approximately 80% of the world lives according to ancient traditional values. That is the part of the world worth geomaxxing to. Furthermore, it is quite likely that by the end of this winter the economy of the EU and UK will be no more. In all practical terms, half of the West will then be no more. In my opinion, the other half will soon follow.
Oh yes, and your glorious age of unbridled patriarchy shall last forevermore, never changing, growing or evolving. We know the story.
Well, there are those like the OP who just aren't into women. That's OK I guess. They've figured out ways to avoid what they're not into, which is fine. It's a big world with all kinds of folks. Why not celebrate the diversity?
"As usual... it depends."
heracleitos
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Re: The tit-for-tat trade between man and woman

Post by heracleitos »

Sy Borg wrote: September 24th, 2022, 3:47 am Oh yes, and your glorious age of unbridled patriarchy shall last forevermore, never changing, growing or evolving. We know the story.
We are definitely not going to vote over it. It is also obvious that we are not even going to negotiate over it. Just like the conflict in the Ukraine, the problem will be decided -- as Otto von Bismarck would say -- through iron and blood, durch Eisen und Blut.

Men will simply have to prove that they are willing to risk their lives and die for what they believe in. I am eagerly waiting to finally see the imaginary men arriving who will risk their lives and die for feminism.

But then again, let Vladimir Putin first terminate the economy of the EU, before authorizing a general advance.
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