How Important Is Popularity, Validation and Credibility in Philosophy?
- JackDaydream
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How Important Is Popularity, Validation and Credibility in Philosophy?
It does help in making life meaningful but I am aware that at times I vest too much interest in how my ideas are perceived. In particular, I do look too much at the popularity of threads as measures of success and failure. At times, if my thread topics flop I do go into 'failure' mode. I know that this may be a bit 'over the top' because popularity is not everything. Also, sometimes it is not the specific thread topic questions which count for everything. Many write fantastic posts without writing threads at all. Also, sometimes it is many provocative threads which draw so much attention.
So, I am aware that my own attachments to whether my threads fail or succeed is connected to ego insecurity. Part of the reason why I write so many threads may be connected to low self worth, although that is not strictly so, because I am also asking questions because I feel isolayed with no one else to discuss philosophy with and feel alone in philosophy.
I am aware that I have written many threads and wonder about others who write thread topics and posts. How do the responses affect you? I am aware that ideas of 'failure' and 'success' can be extremely limiting, especially in relation to exam successes, failures and other outer aspects of acceptance of failure and rejection.
Historically, some thinkers have been esteemed, even to the point of 'guru' status, while others are dismissed as being of low worth and ranking. Generally, I see myself as the bottom of the scale, even though I do receive some validation of my worth at times. I wonder about popularity and what it stands for, especially in philosophy as a genuine pursuit. So, I am interested in how others feel, especially those people who have little recognition and social status, and how do you feel? Do you compare yourself to others who are 'successful' and seen as important philosophical voices? Or, can it be about inner aspects of knowledge and credibility as opposed to recognition? Where does 'ego' enter philosophy and can this be cast aside entirely? Does it matter at all how our ideas are seen by others, especially in the private pursuit of philosophy or as a means of validated discourse of ideas?
.
- Agent Smyth
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Re: How Important Is Popularity, Validation and Credibility in Philosophy?
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Re: How Important Is Popularity, Validation and Credibility in Philosophy?
(2021) How Desirable or Possible is to Be Detached or Beyond Attachments?
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17550
My reply was the following:
"When one considers the value in the world - which includes everything of which it can be said that it 'matters' within the scope of a human perspective - one could argue that that value logically must have been preceded by an aspect that is necessarily meaningful but that cannot be 'value' by the simple logical truth that something cannot be the origin of itself.
When one considers the concept pure meaning as the only ground for relevance in the scope of one's perspective on life, one can become detached or go beyond attachment of 'value' while fulfilling a moral life, which includes optimal performance in life's bigger whole, such as a community of people, or humanity in general.
Morality (a moral life) can be achieved by addressing the question "What is 'good'?".
Aristotle considers a state of philosophical contemplation (eudaimonia) the greatest virtue (highest human good). It is a strive to serve life: the discovery of "good" from which 'value' follows."
---
In my opinion ego should have no place in philosophy other then how it would relate to an individuals ability to perform. I personally would prefer to be detached and neutral. I am naturally self-less.
When it concerns philosophy in my opinion it is the content and the insights that matter. A desire or striving for aspects such as popularity would potentially deviate (corrupt) from that higher purpose. Aristotle's state of eudaimonia would concern an eternal state that is never done. The challenge to excell in that state of philosophical contemplation - to make ought progress in the face of what could have been possible - is a real challenge that thousands of experts have dedicated their life to.
For example, could Hegel have achieved more when he continued pioneering across the frontiers of philosophy instead of dedicating to teaching his philosophy to students?
In a recent article by professor Gregg Caruso (State University of New York) who co-authored a book on free will with well known (popular) professor Daniel C. Dennett (https://debatingfreewill.com/) was argued that academic philosophy is changing.
(2023) Optimism about Philosophy
The days of philosophy being dominated by one or two figures (or methodologies) at a time is over, and I think that’s a good thing. Let a thousand flowers bloom, as they say.
https://dailynous.com/2023/03/21/optimi ... hilosophy/
Popularity can serve a purpose, for example for informing the public. For philosophical advancement however it seems to have little relevance.
p.s. as you can see you have readers
- LuckyR
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Re: How Important Is Popularity, Validation and Credibility in Philosophy?
Perhaps off topic, but I can't help myself. I don't recommend looking primarily for validation outside of yourself. Other people individually and society in general do what they do and say what they say for a myriad of reasons and perspectives. Only a tiny fraction of which have anything to do with you. OTOH, the percentage of your attention which is (potentially) self reflective is substantial. Ultimately, if I can look myself in the mirror and can honestly say that I behaved reasonably, even admirably, then the "opinion" of others, be they my boss, my teacher, experts in the field, the courts etc (let alone random people online who I don't and will never know) don't matter that much to me. I would put family and friends in a separate category if and only if they actually have my best interest in mind.JackDaydream wrote: ↑March 23rd, 2023, 3:58 pm I write this as a bit of a 'gripe' and am trying to make sense of it, wondering if any others experience similar issues. I do experience very low self esteem at times and, at the same time, try to fathom a sense of worth and value as a human being. Part of this involves writing on sites such as this, out of a genuine interest in philosophy and related issues.
It does help in making life meaningful but I am aware that at times I vest too much interest in how my ideas are perceived. In particular, I do look too much at the popularity of threads as measures of success and failure. At times, if my thread topics flop I do go into 'failure' mode. I know that this may be a bit 'over the top' because popularity is not everything. Also, sometimes it is not the specific thread topic questions which count for everything. Many write fantastic posts without writing threads at all. Also, sometimes it is many provocative threads which draw so much attention.
So, I am aware that my own attachments to whether my threads fail or succeed is connected to ego insecurity. Part of the reason why I write so many threads may be connected to low self worth, although that is not strictly so, because I am also asking questions because I feel isolayed with no one else to discuss philosophy with and feel alone in philosophy.
I am aware that I have written many threads and wonder about others who write thread topics and posts. How do the responses affect you? I am aware that ideas of 'failure' and 'success' can be extremely limiting, especially in relation to exam successes, failures and other outer aspects of acceptance of failure and rejection.
Historically, some thinkers have been esteemed, even to the point of 'guru' status, while others are dismissed as being of low worth and ranking. Generally, I see myself as the bottom of the scale, even though I do receive some validation of my worth at times. I wonder about popularity and what it stands for, especially in philosophy as a genuine pursuit. So, I am interested in how others feel, especially those people who have little recognition and social status, and how do you feel? Do you compare yourself to others who are 'successful' and seen as important philosophical voices? Or, can it be about inner aspects of knowledge and credibility as opposed to recognition? Where does 'ego' enter philosophy and can this be cast aside entirely? Does it matter at all how our ideas are seen by others, especially in the private pursuit of philosophy or as a means of validated discourse of ideas?
.
- JackDaydream
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Re: How Important Is Popularity, Validation and Credibility in Philosophy?
value wrote: ↑March 30th, 2023, 2:10 pm I remember that you once started a topic about the ability to become 'Detached' .
To Value,
I am sorry that I am not quoting you, but as you had links when I tried to quote you my post was not a accepted.
It would certainly seem to be an ideal value in philosophy if the ego did not enter into the picture, but, in a way, the ego is so central to human functioning that it is questionable to what extent is that possible? In a way the Eastern philosophy of emptiness may be useful here, and the idea of the deflated rather than inflated ego may be important. But it still leaves social questions,but orour oespecially will the ideas of those who are esteemed and popular have worthiness in relation to the hierarchies of the marginalised?' Of course, human meaning and philosophy have a personal element, but it is hard to be independent of 'expert opinion' an consensus.
- JackDaydream
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Re: How Important Is Popularity, Validation and Credibility in Philosophy?
The question may even be about survival in relation to rejection and popularity. It goes back to Socrates and who would be willing to swallow the hemlock and die for philosophy?Agent Smyth wrote: ↑March 29th, 2023, 9:48 pm A superb question. Philosophy has always distanced itself from more mundane pursuits like, dare I say it, science. How much of that is grounded in fact is up for debate, oui? There seems to be some kind of cross pollination between fields and to my reckoning that's, to say the least, the morning cuppa coffee so to speak.
- JackDaydream
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Re: How Important Is Popularity, Validation and Credibility in Philosophy?
Thanks for your interesting reply. Strangely, a day after writing this reply I was thrown into philosophical silence,as opposed to the noise of endless discussion as a result of an accident, breaking my elbow.Thinking about mirrors and opinions of others may be important. Validation of the opinions of others may throw open the frontiers of the narcissistic aspects of the human condition. However, the basis of rationality and arguments may be extremely important. Nevertheless, in the context of online communication the bombardment of noise may be overwhelming and it may be Important to hold on to silence, especially in relation to Wittgenstein's suggestion of remaining silent in the face of uncertainty. It may be part of the human condition to develop opinions but they may need to be understood in that context.LuckyR wrote: ↑April 1st, 2023, 3:06 pmPerhaps off topic, but I can't help myself. I don't recommend looking primarily for validation outside of yourself. Other people individually and society in general do what they do and say what they say for a myriad of reasons and perspectives. Only a tiny fraction of which have anything to do with you. OTOH, the percentage of your attention which is (potentially) self reflective is substantial. Ultimately, if I can look myself in the mirror and can honestly say that I behaved reasonably, even admirably, then the "opinion" of others, be they my boss, my teacher, experts in the field, the courts etc (let alone random people online who I don't and will never know) don't matter that much to me. I would put family and friends in a separate category if and only if they actually have my best interest in mind.JackDaydream wrote: ↑March 23rd, 2023, 3:58 pm I write this as a bit of a 'gripe' and am trying to make sense of it, wondering if any others experience similar issues. I do experience very low self esteem at times and, at the same time, try to fathom a sense of worth and value as a human being. Part of this involves writing on sites such as this, out of a genuine interest in philosophy and related issues.
It does help in making life meaningful but I am aware that at times I vest too much interest in how my ideas are perceived. In particular, I do look too much at the popularity of threads as measures of success and failure. At times, if my thread topics flop I do go into 'failure' mode. I know that this may be a bit 'over the top' because popularity is not everything. Also, sometimes it is not the specific thread topic questions which count for everything. Many write fantastic posts without writing threads at all. Also, sometimes it is many provocative threads which draw so much attention.
So, I am aware that my own attachments to whether my threads fail or succeed is connected to ego insecurity. Part of the reason why I write so many threads may be connected to low self worth, although that is not strictly so, because I am also asking questions because I feel isolayed with no one else to discuss philosophy with and feel alone in philosophy.
I am aware that I have written many threads and wonder about others who write thread topics and posts. How do the responses affect you? I am aware that ideas of 'failure' and 'success' can be extremely limiting, especially in relation to exam successes, failures and other outer aspects of acceptance of failure and rejection.
Historically, some thinkers have been esteemed, even to the point of 'guru' status, while others are dismissed as being of low worth and ranking. Generally, I see myself as the bottom of the scale, even though I do receive some validation of my worth at times. I wonder about popularity and what it stands for, especially in philosophy as a genuine pursuit. So, I am interested in how others feel, especially those people who have little recognition and social status, and how do you feel? Do you compare yourself to others who are 'successful' and seen as important philosophical voices? Or, can it be about inner aspects of knowledge and credibility as opposed to recognition? Where does 'ego' enter philosophy and can this be cast aside entirely? Does it matter at all how our ideas are seen by others, especially in the private pursuit of philosophy or as a means of validated discourse of ideas?
.
- LuckyR
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Re: How Important Is Popularity, Validation and Credibility in Philosophy?
Hope you elbow is doing better. Sounds painful.JackDaydream wrote: ↑April 5th, 2023, 3:29 pmThanks for your interesting reply. Strangely, a day after writing this reply I was thrown into philosophical silence,as opposed to the noise of endless discussion as a result of an accident, breaking my elbow.Thinking about mirrors and opinions of others may be important. Validation of the opinions of others may throw open the frontiers of the narcissistic aspects of the human condition. However, the basis of rationality and arguments may be extremely important. Nevertheless, in the context of online communication the bombardment of noise may be overwhelming and it may be Important to hold on to silence, especially in relation to Wittgenstein's suggestion of remaining silent in the face of uncertainty. It may be part of the human condition to develop opinions but they may need to be understood in that context.LuckyR wrote: ↑April 1st, 2023, 3:06 pmPerhaps off topic, but I can't help myself. I don't recommend looking primarily for validation outside of yourself. Other people individually and society in general do what they do and say what they say for a myriad of reasons and perspectives. Only a tiny fraction of which have anything to do with you. OTOH, the percentage of your attention which is (potentially) self reflective is substantial. Ultimately, if I can look myself in the mirror and can honestly say that I behaved reasonably, even admirably, then the "opinion" of others, be they my boss, my teacher, experts in the field, the courts etc (let alone random people online who I don't and will never know) don't matter that much to me. I would put family and friends in a separate category if and only if they actually have my best interest in mind.JackDaydream wrote: ↑March 23rd, 2023, 3:58 pm I write this as a bit of a 'gripe' and am trying to make sense of it, wondering if any others experience similar issues. I do experience very low self esteem at times and, at the same time, try to fathom a sense of worth and value as a human being. Part of this involves writing on sites such as this, out of a genuine interest in philosophy and related issues.
It does help in making life meaningful but I am aware that at times I vest too much interest in how my ideas are perceived. In particular, I do look too much at the popularity of threads as measures of success and failure. At times, if my thread topics flop I do go into 'failure' mode. I know that this may be a bit 'over the top' because popularity is not everything. Also, sometimes it is not the specific thread topic questions which count for everything. Many write fantastic posts without writing threads at all. Also, sometimes it is many provocative threads which draw so much attention.
So, I am aware that my own attachments to whether my threads fail or succeed is connected to ego insecurity. Part of the reason why I write so many threads may be connected to low self worth, although that is not strictly so, because I am also asking questions because I feel isolayed with no one else to discuss philosophy with and feel alone in philosophy.
I am aware that I have written many threads and wonder about others who write thread topics and posts. How do the responses affect you? I am aware that ideas of 'failure' and 'success' can be extremely limiting, especially in relation to exam successes, failures and other outer aspects of acceptance of failure and rejection.
Historically, some thinkers have been esteemed, even to the point of 'guru' status, while others are dismissed as being of low worth and ranking. Generally, I see myself as the bottom of the scale, even though I do receive some validation of my worth at times. I wonder about popularity and what it stands for, especially in philosophy as a genuine pursuit. So, I am interested in how others feel, especially those people who have little recognition and social status, and how do you feel? Do you compare yourself to others who are 'successful' and seen as important philosophical voices? Or, can it be about inner aspects of knowledge and credibility as opposed to recognition? Where does 'ego' enter philosophy and can this be cast aside entirely? Does it matter at all how our ideas are seen by others, especially in the private pursuit of philosophy or as a means of validated discourse of ideas?
.
Yes, the value of online opinions is exactly what you pay for them. Namely: nothing. There's a reason why use of social media is directly proportional to evidence of depression in young girls.
How many interviews have you seen where some citizen (not a celebrity) in the public eye for one reason or another, says that they received messages asking: why don't you kill yourself? As someone with zero social media presence, I found the situation odd. Not odd that someone would say such a thing, but odd that someone would take such a comment from someone they don't know (usually with a username that isn't even their name) seriously. Didn't we all learn in the grade school playground that sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me?
- chewybrian
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Re: How Important Is Popularity, Validation and Credibility in Philosophy?
In my experience, ego and low self-esteem go hand in hand. If I think that I can or should accomplish things beyond my scope, then I am bound to be disappointed in myself when I don't make the self-imposed grade. Ironically, it is my own inflated sense of importance which is making me feel like I am a nothing.JackDaydream wrote: ↑March 23rd, 2023, 3:58 pm Where does 'ego' enter philosophy and can this be cast aside entirely? Does it matter at all how our ideas are seen by others, especially in the private pursuit of philosophy or as a means of validated discourse of ideas?
Philosophy helps me put things in a truer light, enabling me to see how little I could ever do, and freeing me to work on what I am able to do. Rather than seeking validation from others, I understand through philosophy that I can only judge myself based upon my own abilities and roadblocks and effort. I don't have to feel unimportant as long as I am making progress. If I am (slowly) learning to treat others better, to be less of a burden, to learn and grow and to be my true self, then I should have no need for shame.
Does it matter how my ideas are seen by others? It doesn't. When the replies seem unkind or dishonest, that bothers me. I'm not bothered because I get my feelings hurt, but because I think philosophy deserves better (just as I am bothered by politicians yelling at each other and calling each other names instead of having honest discussions and trying to solve problems). However, being shown to be right or wrong is a chance to learn or improve either way, so I don't feel I should ever be bothered by that. Growing is winning; small victories are still victories.
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Re: How Important Is Popularity, Validation and Credibility in Philosophy?
Your point about kindness and honesty in replies is important. If anything, this may be the essential aspect, especially in meaningful connections. It may be at the core of validation on a qualitative as opposed to quantitative level. On forum sites, people may be almost reduced to mere numbers and in philosophy interaction the personal aspects may get lost. Of course, philosophy is not simply about validation but reaching out to other minds is important, as opposed to the pursuit as a lone quest. It goes beyond the ego needs of popularity and its narcissistic aspects as a more genuine sharing of one's own quest for knowledge and understanding.chewybrian wrote: ↑April 6th, 2023, 7:49 pmIn my experience, ego and low self-esteem go hand in hand. If I think that I can or should accomplish things beyond my scope, then I am bound to be disappointed in myself when I don't make the self-imposed grade. Ironically, it is my own inflated sense of importance which is making me feel like I am a nothing.JackDaydream wrote: ↑March 23rd, 2023, 3:58 pm Where does 'ego' enter philosophy and can this be cast aside entirely? Does it matter at all how our ideas are seen by others, especially in the private pursuit of philosophy or as a means of validated discourse of ideas?
Philosophy helps me put things in a truer light, enabling me to see how little I could ever do, and freeing me to work on what I am able to do. Rather than seeking validation from others, I understand through philosophy that I can only judge myself based upon my own abilities and roadblocks and effort. I don't have to feel unimportant as long as I am making progress. If I am (slowly) learning to treat others better, to be less of a burden, to learn and grow and to be my true self, then I should have no need for shame.
Does it matter how my ideas are seen by others? It doesn't. When the replies seem unkind or dishonest, that bothers me. I'm not bothered because I get my feelings hurt, but because I think philosophy deserves better (just as I am bothered by politicians yelling at each other and calling each other names instead of having honest discussions and trying to solve problems). However, being shown to be right or wrong is a chance to learn or improve either way, so I don't feel I should ever be bothered by that. Growing is winning; small victories are still victories.
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Re: How Important Is Popularity, Validation and Credibility in Philosophy?
- Pattern-chaser
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Re: How Important Is Popularity, Validation and Credibility in Philosophy?
What you describe is too shallow. But it does not fully describe what goes on here in the forum. Some useful discussions take place. Some learning happens. Sometimes, understanding is enhanced. These, I think, are the "better things" that we have to do.JDBowden wrote: ↑May 18th, 2023, 8:09 am I feel your pain, really. Recently, I have found myself reflecting on the idea of, "why do I feel the urge to post anything at all?" External validation for the most part. If one is here to discuss philosophy (me, because no one I know has any interest in it except for yall) then that is fine. But if someone is on ANY forum or comment section looking for anything external, that would be an internal issue personally. Philosophy is FILLED with idiotic ego-maniacs. Look at me, I am so smart, etc etc it is plagued everywhere — including the "professionals." There are a lot of Spotify podcasts with "philosophers" whom are pretty much only concerned with how many followers they have. Validation from strangers? Pretty sad, really. Who cares what random and anonymous people you will never meet online say? It is too shallow. We have better things to do!
"Who cares, wins"
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Re: How Important Is Popularity, Validation and Credibility in Philosophy?
- Sea Turtle
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Re: How Important Is Popularity, Validation and Credibility in Philosophy?
I write this with full knowledge that I am a new member, and others that are seasoned already will have some opinion of me based on what I write. I tell that so as to share that I also am human.
Our life follows a path to feel. Philosophy is a tool to make us feel better. A feeling of popularity, validation and credibility feels good.
Another word to consider is "prestige"
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