Forum Reform

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gad-fly
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Joined: October 23rd, 2019, 4:48 pm

Re: Forum Reform

Post by gad-fly »

Nothing lasts forever. Yet some survives almost forever, and some would soon not see another day. Change not for the sake of change, but for three reasons; first, it is broken; second, it is in decline; third, there is room for improvement.

The audacity to pinpoint what is wrong with the present forum must be challenging to many, but it is timely, arising from the second and third reasons above. I believe the forum was born with a birth defect. At the expense of Scott, it is an undisciplined free-for-all. Unlike the book, there is no weight differentiation between the author and the commentators/repliers. Soon after the New Topic is out, it would be so overwhelmed by replies as to scare away newcomers and revisiting, to die away by negligence, like a traveler dragged by increasing luggage beyond his control. The difference between book publication and the New topic? The former has the price mechanism. The author is paid, and the buyer has to exercise discretion according to his wallet. The irony is more readers on the former, and more relevance too.

I am not advocating that the author of a New Topic to pay or be paid. That is another issue which should be avoided here and now. I would suggest that author be given some degree of control over the debate, and perhaps to weed out the baggage of replies. Hew long his topic survives would be determined by how he handles what he has given birth.

There are other birth defects and reform in other areas, like when I have pointed out when I began this thread, but I shall come to that later, lest you be overwhelmed.
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psyreporter
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Re: Forum Reform

Post by psyreporter »

To repeat: I personally believe that the forum is managed quite well and when I shortly became administrator to recover a domain expiration in January this year, I noticed that quite an effort is made to administrate the forum, meanwhile with almost no conflicts about moderation and almost all users feeling welcome. It seems to be a great accomplishment that deserves gratitude from the users.
nameless wrote: July 5th, 2008, 7:21 am WHERE'S A MODERATOR??
Are there no moderators that care about this site? Someone to sweep up jb's (and other idiots) little piles of spammish crap posted all over the place, duplicates at that. It is becomming less and less worth my time to pick my way through and around all of those obsessive spammish piles!
GOOD LUCK
With regard your complaints (or ideas for something better). Why not start a new philosophy forum to your linking, setup as a partner site for this forum? You could invite other users to join the new effort. Pattern-chaser has been interested to do something similar when the domain was expired.

In the case that success is achieved on some levels, the new ideas may be adapted on either forum.

There are just a few forums today. However, to achieve longevity requires motivation and means, and therefore this forum with it's book club addition or the forum that is part of the magazine Philosophy NOW, may have a better chance to stand the test of time.

If you intend to start a forum, be aware that it can be costly. The technical requirements to realize an efficient forum, are significant. In 50 years time the costs can be over $100,000 USD.
Pattern-chaser wrote: January 22nd, 2021, 10:31 am
Steve3007 wrote: January 22nd, 2021, 5:44 am To a selection of some of the more recent and/or prolific posters ... the site may go offline permanently fairly soon or we may be able to move it to a different server. If we do manage to keep it going on a new server we may not be able to port previous posts across. If you're interested, watch this space.

I'm interested! I'm retired, and my main interest these days is ... this forum. I searched for some time to find a decent place to 'live' on the net, and this is where I chose. So I'm interested in two things:

1. If this site does close, does anyone have knowledge of another decent forum to move to? Already I would miss not seeing some of you....

2. Can we keep this site open? Is it just down to money? From other notes here, it looks like it isn't quite that simple. I'm a skint pensioner (etc, etc), but I could pay a little if (quite) a few of us joined together...?

Hoping to keep you all company here for some time to come!

I used this post so that maybe some of those mentioned will see this. As this site might disappear without notice, I've set up a group email. Any email sent to it will auto-bounce out to all members. At the moment, there is only one member: me. Anyone of you who cares to email [email protected] will be added to the membership. Send only details in your email that you are happy for other members to see. I suggest real-name, net-name, and maybe location? I'll start:

Steve Merrick; Pattern-chaser, NW England; 66 years old; retired software designer and armchair philosopher.

I look forward to hearing from some of you. That way we can keep in touch, and maybe decamp together to a new or existing forum elsewhere on the net? Better still, perhaps we can find a way to keep this forum open as it is?
PsyReporter.com | “If life were to be good as it was, there would be no reason to exist.”
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JackDaydream
Posts: 3218
Joined: July 25th, 2021, 5:16 pm

Re: Forum Reform

Post by JackDaydream »

@psyreporter and others,
I just read the posts above and most certainly hope this site doesn't close, especially as I only found it this summer. So far, I have enjoyed the interaction. I do use 'The Philosophy Forum', which I joined over a year ago but have enjoyed the different dynamics here, for a change. I have looked at 'Philosophy Now' forum and have thought that I may join it at some time in the future, mainly because they have some face to face meetings in London, but I am not sure that the site itself is better than this one.

So, does anyone know if this one is going to pack up or not? It seems a shame. If it goes on to a new server that is not so bad, but it may be sad if all the previous thread discussions get lost. Also, it is a bit annoying if it means having to join again, because it is sometimes hard to get set up and getting the email links. Generally, I do think that this site is a good one and would hope that it can continue in some form, because it does seem welcoming and moderated well.
gad-fly
Posts: 1133
Joined: October 23rd, 2019, 4:48 pm

Re: Forum Reform

Post by gad-fly »

gad-fly wrote: November 19th, 2021, 1:47 pm Nothing lasts forever. Yet some survives almost forever, and some would soon not see another day. Change not for the sake of change, but for three reasons; first, it is broken; second, it is in decline; third, there is room for improvement.

The audacity to pinpoint what is wrong with the present forum must be challenging to many, but it is timely, arising from the second and third reasons above. I believe the forum was born with a birth defect. At the expense of Scott, it is an undisciplined free-for-all. Unlike the book, there is no weight differentiation between the author and the commentators/repliers. Soon after the New Topic is out, it would be so overwhelmed by replies as to scare away newcomers and revisiting, to die away by negligence, like a traveler dragged by increasing luggage beyond his control. The difference between book publication and the New topic? The former has the price mechanism. The author is paid, and the buyer has to exercise discretion according to his wallet. The irony is more readers on the former, and more relevance too.

I am not advocating that the author of a New Topic to pay or be paid. That is another issue which should be avoided here and now. I would suggest that author be given some degree of control over the debate, and perhaps to weed out the baggage of replies. Hew long his topic survives would be determined by how he handles what he has given birth.

There are other birth defects and reform in other areas, like when I have pointed out when I began this thread, but I shall come to that later, lest you be overwhelmed.

It appears that many of you are more concerned about keeping this site alive as a free-for-all platform. It serves you well. You can find audience. Say whatever you like, and whenever you like, even if entirely out of context. You do not have to bother with "Dear Editor". Pop up at any instant, and disappear without a trace. You have the right, but no responsibility to defend your position. It must be fun. In the final analysis, who cares? Whatever you said, whether very seriously or sarcastically, in a few days will be buried and forgotten in the ever-expanding heap of past threads which will not be disturbed until thy kingdom come. Not to worry, though. It will be there for some idiot, if any, to bother rummaging.

It like saying to a very sick patient: Don't die. We love you you, and we cannot do without you. We are your fans. We would sorely miss you when you were gone. Tell us how we can replace you.

I began this thread to raise discussion, like, on treatment and cure for a sick patient. The title of "Forum Reform" is loud and clear. Reform requires medicine and even surgery. What is your suggestion, seriously? If you think this forum healthy and sound, your silence is respected.
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JackDaydream
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Re: Forum Reform

Post by JackDaydream »

@gad-fly
Personally, I find this site helpful because I find so little outlet for discussion of ideas, but what may be important is the balance between philosophy theory and practice. There are many philosophical questions, including underlying ones about political concerns, and, at times, the practical realities, including climate change may get missed in thinking about big questions of human existence and experience. I wonder how human beings can juggle this because the reality of political concerns is so real, but in the context of the whole existential conundrums. Climate change is real, but so are many other concerns. How can it all be taken on board, thought about, in a balanced way, with regard to our lives and those who come after us?
gad-fly
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Joined: October 23rd, 2019, 4:48 pm

Re: Forum Reform

Post by gad-fly »

JackDaydream wrote: December 4th, 2021, 7:25 pm @gad-fly
Personally, I find this site helpful because I find so little outlet for discussion of ideas, but what may be important is the balance between philosophy theory and practice. There are many philosophical questions, including underlying ones about political concerns, and, at times, the practical realities, including climate change may get missed in thinking about big questions of human existence and experience. I wonder how human beings can juggle this because the reality of political concerns is so real, but in the context of the whole existential conundrums. Climate change is real, but so are many other concerns. How can it all be taken on board, thought about, in a balanced way, with regard to our lives and those who come after us?
It would be a sad day to see this site vanish. I sincerely hope not. As you have said, there are too few outlets to channel open, instantaneous, and unabated discussion. This service is priceless, but unfortunately pricy. i imagine it is nightmarish to manage a balance among conflicting demands. The present practice to offer identical treatment to all topics, whether marginal/transitional or permanent/critical, is like admitting every teenager into university and graduating them with the same qualification. Before long, the university will become one that everybody will try to stay away if he can, to endure a slow, agonizing death.

Reform is due. It has dragged on for too long.
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Sy Borg
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Re: Forum Reform

Post by Sy Borg »

The trouble with perpetual topics - or sticky topics in forum parlance - is they become impenetrable. No one will read through hundreds of pages. Consider that you make a highly pertinent and original remark on page fifty in a thread that reaches a hundred or more pages. Practically, the posting is lost, buried, mostly only accessible via internet searches.

Anyway, that's up to Scott and also the developers of the forum's open source code templates.
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JackDaydream
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Re: Forum Reform

Post by JackDaydream »

I admit that I am less inclined to look at threads which seem to have about 20 pages. It would seem more work than reading books, especially as there is so much variability in the nature of the posts.

I do enjoy using the forum and wish to contribute to discussion on recurrent philosophy themes and ones which appear to be unique. It is hard sometimes to know whether to go into threads which are almost buried or start new ones. My intuition is that it may be worth looking at ideas but with a slightly different angle. It may be that there are many underlying questions but that the framing of these into questions may generate different approaches and answers. I wonder to what extent each human being brings a unique slant on many of the questions on philosophy and that is what I am trying to explore.

It is about our thinking and interpretation of reading because what this forum does allow for is interactive exploration. That is why I use the forum and another one, because I feel that I learn so much more about ideas, including my own, than when I am reading and thinking alone. It is true that topics sometimes fizzle, including my own, and it can be disappointing. Yet it is likely that they will appear again in some way, and even old threads are not lost but like archives and secret chambers which can be explored. From my point of view, it is exciting to watch new topics come up on the forum, as part of the flow of philosophy and life.
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LuckyR
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Re: Forum Reform

Post by LuckyR »

JackDaydream wrote: January 8th, 2022, 7:59 pm I admit that I am less inclined to look at threads which seem to have about 20 pages. It would seem more work than reading books, especially as there is so much variability in the nature of the posts.

I do enjoy using the forum and wish to contribute to discussion on recurrent philosophy themes and ones which appear to be unique. It is hard sometimes to know whether to go into threads which are almost buried or start new ones. My intuition is that it may be worth looking at ideas but with a slightly different angle. It may be that there are many underlying questions but that the framing of these into questions may generate different approaches and answers. I wonder to what extent each human being brings a unique slant on many of the questions on philosophy and that is what I am trying to explore.

It is about our thinking and interpretation of reading because what this forum does allow for is interactive exploration. That is why I use the forum and another one, because I feel that I learn so much more about ideas, including my own, than when I am reading and thinking alone. It is true that topics sometimes fizzle, including my own, and it can be disappointing. Yet it is likely that they will appear again in some way, and even old threads are not lost but like archives and secret chambers which can be explored. From my point of view, it is exciting to watch new topics come up on the forum, as part of the flow of philosophy and life.
I agree that we each bring unique views that contain interest. But there are not an infinite number of posters so several posts into it, the battle lines get drawn and folks bring out their rationales for their positions and within a very few pages the original topic is spent. Further postings of interest are either new posters (with new positions) or going off on a tangent from the original topic that generates new discussion from the original posters.

It's not good or bad, it's just the nature of the medium.
"As usual... it depends."
gad-fly
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Joined: October 23rd, 2019, 4:48 pm

Re: Forum Reform

Post by gad-fly »

Sy Borg wrote: January 8th, 2022, 7:33 pm The trouble with perpetual topics - or sticky topics in forum parlance - is they become impenetrable. No one will read through hundreds of pages. Consider that you make a highly pertinent and original remark on page fifty in a thread that reaches a hundred or more pages. Practically, the posting is lost, buried, mostly only accessible via internet searches.

Anyway, that's up to Scott and also the developers of the forum's open source code templates.
I am somewhat disappointed by the replies, consisting of "I admit . . .", "I enjoy . . .", and so on. I would welcome more pro-active suggestion on Reform, and on necessary action. This is not about you.

I agree with your "The trouble is . . ." above, but what is your proposal? Leaving everything to Scott is unfair. We have to offer him a helping hand. We do not sit on our hands, crying Wolf.

Allow me to make the first move. There are five posts on Recent Topics, and five on Book Club topics. Often, two or three Book Club topics are repeated in Recent Topics. Why? The trouble is: if you put up a new post on Recent topics, it will be pushed away from the ledge in two days or so. My suggestion: cancel the repetition, and give more breathing room. Let "What is not philosophy" stay on the headline for a week, please.
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JackDaydream
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Re: Forum Reform

Post by JackDaydream »

@gad-fly
I shouldn't be getting bothered by your post but as this is a thread I have written on I get responses from it. I think that while the forum is not 'perfect' and probably, any has weaknesses, I feel that you are trying to spoil things. You are suggesting that certain threads, such as the one on what philosophy is NOT should be given preference over others. This would mean that the moderators make choices about which threads to promote or demote from the list. As it is my recent one has only been up there for 2 days and once they go from the top they rarely get responses from posters who haven't written on it already.

I do fear that you are wishing moderators to make distinctions about which and whose threads should be seen as important. On another forum which I use the way it works is that topics pop to the top when a new entry is made, but on this one it would be hard to make that happen, although it does happen in the individual sections.

Personally, I have probably been too quick to create new threads and I will try to slow down because I don't wish to knock others' ones down. Sometimes, I try to do it so that is me knocking my own down. It makes it too competitive but I am worried that you are wishing for preference to be given to some topics and, with it some kind of favouritism. I don't know why I am getting stressed and I can just use the other forum I use if this one becomes too biased in the way you would like. But, for the time being I do wish to continue to use this forum for a little bit longer. I am fairly new to the forum, so it may be that my opinion doesn't count; but if changes were made, surely it should be on the basis of the various users of the site's views and should involve some fairness.
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Sy Borg
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Re: Forum Reform

Post by Sy Borg »

gad-fly wrote: January 9th, 2022, 1:01 pm
Sy Borg wrote: January 8th, 2022, 7:33 pm The trouble with perpetual topics - or sticky topics in forum parlance - is they become impenetrable. No one will read through hundreds of pages. Consider that you make a highly pertinent and original remark on page fifty in a thread that reaches a hundred or more pages. Practically, the posting is lost, buried, mostly only accessible via internet searches.

Anyway, that's up to Scott and also the developers of the forum's open source code templates.
I am somewhat disappointed by the replies, consisting of "I admit . . .", "I enjoy . . .", and so on. I would welcome more pro-active suggestion on Reform, and on necessary action. This is not about you.

I agree with your "The trouble is . . ." above, but what is your proposal? Leaving everything to Scott is unfair. We have to offer him a helping hand. We do not sit on our hands, crying Wolf.
It's Scott's forum. I have modded for him for a fair few years and his lack of presence here makes clear that he has found other priorities. This forum seems to be the legacy of an old project from which he's mostly moved on.

I've done similar. I used to work in OH&S and kept the anti-bullying site I'd made up for some years after shifting to a different field. The site would still be up today except that the legislative references were getting out of date. Scott doesn't have that issue to deal with, so the forum remains.
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Sculptor1
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Re: Forum Reform

Post by Sculptor1 »

LuckyR wrote: November 5th, 2021, 8:55 pm
gad-fly wrote: November 5th, 2021, 4:15 pm Topics can be classified into two categories:

Hot and Marginal: like hurricane on the US south, Trump elected as president, and book-club discussion. Sudden burst of interest as they may be, the span of attention is short, and soon taken over, if not forgotten.

Perpetual: like Climate Change (CC), pandemic, God as Creator, and democracy. They endure and persist with the serious concern of the public, philosophically and mentally.

This Forum makes no difference between the two. Every New Topic will be put on the top of the chart, to drop an earlier topic from the table-top. Topics, important or trivial, will all last for a week or less. Exception to this rule can be found. Some 4 topics here as raised by Scott, for example, stay permanently on the top, which makes sense. The implication? Probably that prioritization is sometimes necessary.

It is about time to introduce Reform. Establish a list of say not more than ten Perpetual Topics which can be reviewed from time to time, to attract new and old audience and commentators. If someone has some burst of thought on CC, for example, he can then be served with the convenience of a ready forum rather than to start a new thread. For me, I would certainly check the forum more often.
I guess I am missing the problem that your solution is designed to solve.
Nicely put!
:D
gad-fly
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Re: Forum Reform

Post by gad-fly »

Sy Borg wrote: January 9th, 2022, 3:26 pm
gad-fly wrote: January 9th, 2022, 1:01 pm
Sy Borg wrote: January 8th, 2022, 7:33 pm The trouble with perpetual topics - or sticky topics in forum parlance - is they become impenetrable. No one will read through hundreds of pages. Consider that you make a highly pertinent and original remark on page fifty in a thread that reaches a hundred or more pages. Practically, the posting is lost, buried, mostly only accessible via internet searches.

Anyway, that's up to Scott and also the developers of the forum's open source code templates.
I am somewhat disappointed by the replies, consisting of "I admit . . .", "I enjoy . . .", and so on. I would welcome more pro-active suggestion on Reform, and on necessary action. This is not about you.

I agree with your "The trouble is . . ." above, but what is your proposal? Leaving everything to Scott is unfair. We have to offer him a helping hand. We do not sit on our hands, crying Wolf.
It's Scott's forum. I have modded for him for a fair few years and his lack of presence here makes clear that he has found other priorities. This forum seems to be the legacy of an old project from which he's mostly moved on.

I've done similar. I used to work in OH&S and kept the anti-bullying site I'd made up for some years after shifting to a different field. The site would still be up today except that the legislative references were getting out of date. Scott doesn't have that issue to deal with, so the forum remains.
My purpose of starting this post has been somewhat fulfilled.

You may deem it fit to bring Scott's attention to the timely need for reform, refreshing, and rearrangement.
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Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
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Re: Forum Reform

Post by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes »

Sy Borg wrote: January 9th, 2022, 3:26 pm
gad-fly wrote: January 9th, 2022, 1:01 pm
Sy Borg wrote: January 8th, 2022, 7:33 pm The trouble with perpetual topics - or sticky topics in forum parlance - is they become impenetrable. No one will read through hundreds of pages. Consider that you make a highly pertinent and original remark on page fifty in a thread that reaches a hundred or more pages. Practically, the posting is lost, buried, mostly only accessible via internet searches.

Anyway, that's up to Scott and also the developers of the forum's open source code templates.
I am somewhat disappointed by the replies, consisting of "I admit . . .", "I enjoy . . .", and so on. I would welcome more pro-active suggestion on Reform, and on necessary action. This is not about you.

I agree with your "The trouble is . . ." above, but what is your proposal? Leaving everything to Scott is unfair. We have to offer him a helping hand. We do not sit on our hands, crying Wolf.
It's Scott's forum. I have modded for him for a fair few years and his lack of presence here makes clear that he has found other priorities. This forum seems to be the legacy of an old project from which he's mostly moved on.

I've done similar. I used to work in OH&S and kept the anti-bullying site I'd made up for some years after shifting to a different field. The site would still be up today except that the legislative references were getting out of date. Scott doesn't have that issue to deal with, so the forum remains.
I don't understand what the request is.

I disagree with the claim that I ab absent. I respond promptly to every PM sent to me. Additionally, a usage of the search feature will show that I created 37 forum topics in 2021:

search.php?keywords=&terms=all&author=S ... mit=Search

In fact, I literally just posted a topic less than two weeks ago:

The Beautiful Anxiety of the Butterfly (Posted December 31st, 2021)


The forum has a tagging feature that works like this: Sy Borg and gad-fly, which sends a PM-like notification to the tagged person, which will help increase the chances that they see the post in question. As of now, this forum has over 14,000 topics, and 386,864 posts. So no person especially not me reads even a significant fraction of them, let alone all them all. I find it odd that these personal speculations about me and my alleged absence would be made without at least tagging me in those conversations about me.

As for the concerns or suggestions about topic ordering and post, that is mostly controlled be each user individually in the Edit Display Options section of the Board Preferences Tab in the User Control Panel.
My entire political philosophy summed up in one tweet.

"The mind is a wonderful servant but a terrible master."

I believe spiritual freedom (a.k.a. self-discipline) manifests as bravery, confidence, grace, honesty, love, and inner peace.
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