My work is "too experimental and non-commercial"

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Randy333
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My work is "too experimental and non-commercial"

Post by Randy333 » January 12th, 2020, 7:40 pm

A question for all of you: Do you consider any written works too experimental and non-commercial? What would you consider too experimental for a book, if anything? Allow me to take some time to explain why I ask these questions, and how they affect human culture.

Years ago, I developed a deep passion for writing, particularly fiction. I’ve never professed myself a flawless author. In fact, I’m somewhat critical of the four novels I’ve written. I’ve evolved as a writer like many others, and only recently came to pursue a creative direction profoundly divergent from my literary origins. I always wanted to be authentically deviant from the industry norm, but even within my own career path I’ve deviated sharply from my initial style and interests, and not in the way some authors change only in slight differences and genre focuses. Even the work that is the subject of this post’s title has become a shadow of the past to me, giving way to a deeper, darker, stranger breed of literature rarely found on bookshelves.

As a writer and researcher, I am interested in many fields: dreams, nightmares, sleep paralysis, hypnagogic and hypnopompic states, hauntings, demonology, cosmology, cryptozoology, metaphysics, insanity, astral and infernal visions, advanced intelligence, alternate dimensions, transhumanism, global catastrophic risk, UFOs, DMT realms, salvia realms, surrealism, the occult, transcendence, eternity, and immortality. I am very bored by conventional human culture, the typical surface-level subjects such as politics, celebrities, sports, film, news, tech, social media, memes, popular music, fashion, and so forth. I’ve become disillusioned by modern society. None of it interests me very much, all the trivial little gadgets and the cults of personality and the incessant conflict over political structures and other artifices. Eventually you’ve become so familiarized you can glance at a news article or even a novel and anticipate exactly how it will be written. Is anyone else here utterly uninterested in contemporary culture? I just can’t bring myself to care about any of it, when I see and sense deeper, darker, and stranger realms in the cosmos beyond and within, as well as in the scattered episodes of phantom oddity that’ve plagued this world for ages. I am far more interested in a single soul’s nightmares and apparitions than I am in the entire array of daily news items produced by this planet. Tell me of your nightmares. Tell me of your specters. I have no use for much else now. I wish to know more of the life beyond this world, and, more importantly, of the phantasmagorical life within life itself. It is the hidden mystery of the mind that draws me most now, above all other mysteries.

There is much more I could say on this subject, and much more that I would say if there weren’t stringent constraints on the freedom of authors to discuss their own works. I will only say, in conclusion of this introduction, that an editor once informed me my works are “too experimental and non-commercial” to be published. Personally, I take this a compliment. They didn’t tell me my works are poorly written, or insipid, or unoriginal. Rather, my works are apparently intolerable to the industry gatekeepers because they’re “too experimental and non-commercial” – as if experimentation is taboo and all works must fit into a neat little cookie-cutter standard of commercialization. My work seeks to explore and illuminate how truly bizarre, magical, and enigmatic this cosmos is. I also dislike some of the conventional artistic standards, which I find pollute the central essence of art. There is a certain system in place that defines how writers should and shouldn’t write a book, which elements it should and shouldn’t include, and so forth. This can easily serve to suppress experimental works, especially works that do not conform to some of the usual conventions. Unfortunately, it would appear I don’t fit the mold expected of writers in our current world. I’m curious about the true limits of experimentation in philosophy, art, and literature. It seems there’s a vein of culture that abhors experimentation, and I’m interested to hear some of your thoughts as to the limits of experimentation in our world.

- D.L.X.

creation
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Re: My work is "too experimental and non-commercial"

Post by creation » January 13th, 2020, 1:47 am

Randy333 wrote:
January 12th, 2020, 7:40 pm
A question for all of you: Do you consider any written works too experimental and non-commercial?
This depends on what you mean by 'non-commercial'? If you just mean for selling for obtaining more money purposes, or 'non-commercial' as in no one will want to read it or non-readable?

If it is the former, then I am not even interested in answering the question, but if you mean the latter, then I would say, No.

I do not consider any written work too experimental nor too unwanted/unreadable. Human beings would not change (progress?) as much as they have, and do, if it was not for thinking and writings that were/are seen as different and/or "out there".
Randy333 wrote:
January 12th, 2020, 7:40 pm
What would you consider too experimental for a book, if anything?
Nothing.

But I am not the best person to ask, nor answer, I have probably only read about five or six books in my lifetime.
Randy333 wrote:
January 12th, 2020, 7:40 pm
Allow me to take some time to explain why I ask these questions, and how they affect human culture.

Years ago, I developed a deep passion for writing, particularly fiction. I’ve never professed myself a flawless author. In fact, I’m somewhat critical of the four novels I’ve written. I’ve evolved as a writer like many others, and only recently came to pursue a creative direction profoundly divergent from my literary origins. I always wanted to be authentically deviant from the industry norm, but even within my own career path I’ve deviated sharply from my initial style and interests, and not in the way some authors change only in slight differences and genre focuses. Even the work that is the subject of this post’s title has become a shadow of the past to me, giving way to a deeper, darker, stranger breed of literature rarely found on bookshelves.

As a writer and researcher, I am interested in many fields: dreams, nightmares, sleep paralysis, hypnagogic and hypnopompic states, hauntings, demonology, cosmology, cryptozoology, metaphysics, insanity, astral and infernal visions, advanced intelligence, alternate dimensions, transhumanism, global catastrophic risk, UFOs, DMT realms, salvia realms, surrealism, the occult, transcendence, eternity, and immortality. I am very bored by conventional human culture, the typical surface-level subjects such as politics, celebrities, sports, film, news, tech, social media, memes, popular music, fashion, and so forth. I’ve become disillusioned by modern society. None of it interests me very much, all the trivial little gadgets and the cults of personality and the incessant conflict over political structures and other artifices. Eventually you’ve become so familiarized you can glance at a news article or even a novel and anticipate exactly how it will be written. Is anyone else here utterly uninterested in contemporary culture?
Yes.

You said that you have become disillusioned by modern society, I would suggest that so called "modern" society has become disillusioned, itself. Disillusioned from reality, and from the true meaning of being social, itself.
Randy333 wrote:
January 12th, 2020, 7:40 pm
I just can’t bring myself to care about any of it, when I see and sense deeper, darker, and stranger realms in the cosmos beyond and within, as well as in the scattered episodes of phantom oddity that’ve plagued this world for ages. I am far more interested in a single soul’s nightmares and apparitions than I am in the entire array of daily news items produced by this planet. Tell me of your nightmares. Tell me of your specters. I have no use for much else now. I wish to know more of the life beyond this world, and, more importantly, of the phantasmagorical life within life itself. It is the hidden mystery of the mind that draws me most now, above all other mysteries.
There is no real hidden mystery of the 'Mind'. What the 'Mind' actually IS, has just been hidden from coming to the forefront of knowledge and knowing. This is related to the stories of good and evil, in religion, and related to deception and deceiving. But nothing I say is directly related to religion nor directly to anything else for that matter.

See the way the Mind and the brain work is that although they work together in a sense within a human body, they are actually in direct opposition with each other. The Mind, of which there is only One universal Mind, which is always Truly OPEN, is being continually deceived by individual human brains, which fool each individual that they 'know' what the truth is and what is right and correct. But the brain can only think, whereas the Mind 'knows'. So, the brain, through the belief-system, will you assumptions and beliefs to 'try to' override what is actually 'known'. I say 'try to' because although the brain can and does override the Mind's knowing, once knowing how the Mind and the brain work, the brain cannot do override the Mind anymore.

Randy333 wrote:
January 12th, 2020, 7:40 pm
There is much more I could say on this subject, and much more that I would say if there weren’t stringent constraints on the freedom of authors to discuss their own works. I will only say, in conclusion of this introduction, that an editor once informed me my works are “too experimental and non-commercial” to be published. Personally, I take this a compliment. They didn’t tell me my works are poorly written, or insipid, or unoriginal. Rather, my works are apparently intolerable to the industry gatekeepers because they’re “too experimental and non-commercial” – as if experimentation is taboo and all works must fit into a neat little cookie-cutter standard of commercialization.
Human beings mostly listen to the brain, and the brain has human beings fooled that they 'need' money to live. To just about all older human beings they can only look at and see things from a monetary perspective. So, what that editor was more or less just telling you is, it is not salable.
Randy333 wrote:
January 12th, 2020, 7:40 pm
My work seeks to explore and illuminate how truly bizarre, magical, and enigmatic this cosmos is. I also dislike some of the conventional artistic standards, which I find pollute the central essence of art. There is a certain system in place that defines how writers should and shouldn’t write a book, which elements it should and shouldn’t include, and so forth.
This once again is the brain at work, influencing each and all other brains that there is only one way to live life, and that we 'should' all fit into that mold and that way of life. The brain is constantly at work 'trying to' fool and deceive all people, including one's own self.
Randy333 wrote:
January 12th, 2020, 7:40 pm
This can easily serve to suppress experimental works, especially works that do not conform to some of the usual conventions. Unfortunately, it would appear I don’t fit the mold expected of writers in our current world. I’m curious about the true limits of experimentation in philosophy, art, and literature. It seems there’s a vein of culture that abhors experimentation, and I’m interested to hear some of your thoughts as to the limits of experimentation in our world.

- D.L.X.
Getting past people's 'beliefs' is what is needed to expose and reveal things new and/or different things to people.

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Passingthrough
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Re: My work is "too experimental and non-commercial"

Post by Passingthrough » April 21st, 2020, 5:18 am

It's just a matter off time, most experimental artists never found aclaim till they were unable to receive it, on this plain of existence😊anyway. The mind is only interesting because of the physical worlds reflection, don't give up on modern society, you can only enjoy one because of the way it interact with the other. Just a thought that's all, it's all a journey, smile it's going to happen anyway😀

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Sculptor1
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Re: My work is "too experimental and non-commercial"

Post by Sculptor1 » April 21st, 2020, 7:41 am

Randy333 wrote:
January 12th, 2020, 7:40 pm
A question for all of you: Do you consider any written works too experimental and non-commercial? What would you consider too experimental for a book, if anything? Allow me to take some time to explain why I ask these questions, and how they affect human culture.

Years ago, I developed a deep passion for writing, particularly fiction. I’ve never professed myself a flawless author. In fact, I’m somewhat critical of the four novels I’ve written. I’ve evolved as a writer like many others, and only recently came to pursue a creative direction profoundly divergent from my literary origins. I always wanted to be authentically deviant from the industry norm, but even within my own career path I’ve deviated sharply from my initial style and interests, and not in the way some authors change only in slight differences and genre focuses. Even the work that is the subject of this post’s title has become a shadow of the past to me, giving way to a deeper, darker, stranger breed of literature rarely found on bookshelves.

As a writer and researcher, I am interested in many fields: dreams, nightmares, sleep paralysis, hypnagogic and hypnopompic states, hauntings, demonology, cosmology, cryptozoology, metaphysics, insanity, astral and infernal visions, advanced intelligence, alternate dimensions, transhumanism, global catastrophic risk, UFOs, DMT realms, salvia realms, surrealism, the occult, transcendence, eternity, and immortality. I am very bored by conventional human culture, the typical surface-level subjects such as politics, celebrities, sports, film, news, tech, social media, memes, popular music, fashion, and so forth. I’ve become disillusioned by modern society. None of it interests me very much, all the trivial little gadgets and the cults of personality and the incessant conflict over political structures and other artifices. Eventually you’ve become so familiarized you can glance at a news article or even a novel and anticipate exactly how it will be written. Is anyone else here utterly uninterested in contemporary culture? I just can’t bring myself to care about any of it, when I see and sense deeper, darker, and stranger realms in the cosmos beyond and within, as well as in the scattered episodes of phantom oddity that’ve plagued this world for ages. I am far more interested in a single soul’s nightmares and apparitions than I am in the entire array of daily news items produced by this planet. Tell me of your nightmares. Tell me of your specters. I have no use for much else now. I wish to know more of the life beyond this world, and, more importantly, of the phantasmagorical life within life itself. It is the hidden mystery of the mind that draws me most now, above all other mysteries.

There is much more I could say on this subject, and much more that I would say if there weren’t stringent constraints on the freedom of authors to discuss their own works. I will only say, in conclusion of this introduction, that an editor once informed me my works are “too experimental and non-commercial” to be published. Personally, I take this a compliment. They didn’t tell me my works are poorly written, or insipid, or unoriginal. Rather, my works are apparently intolerable to the industry gatekeepers because they’re “too experimental and non-commercial” – as if experimentation is taboo and all works must fit into a neat little cookie-cutter standard of commercialization. My work seeks to explore and illuminate how truly bizarre, magical, and enigmatic this cosmos is. I also dislike some of the conventional artistic standards, which I find pollute the central essence of art. There is a certain system in place that defines how writers should and shouldn’t write a book, which elements it should and shouldn’t include, and so forth. This can easily serve to suppress experimental works, especially works that do not conform to some of the usual conventions. Unfortunately, it would appear I don’t fit the mold expected of writers in our current world. I’m curious about the true limits of experimentation in philosophy, art, and literature. It seems there’s a vein of culture that abhors experimentation, and I’m interested to hear some of your thoughts as to the limits of experimentation in our world.

- D.L.X.
Two things immediately strike me about this post.

1) It looks like someone has written you a formal rejection using this phrase.
2) What sort of thinking would lead an author to ask this question on a public forum, and expect anyone to be able to answer it without actually seeing an example of their work?

I could be wrong, but the answer to the second question would not give my much faith in the content of the author's work.
Nonetheless, my advice is as follows.

You can always self publish. This can be achieved at almost no cost whatever and can reach a massive audience.
Offer yourself up to the scrutiny of the public.
As far as it goes the notion that a work is not commercial can be tested without the help of a traditional publisher.
As for "too experimental"; that is either a euphemism for unreadable, or in some way fails to follow any kind of rational narrative.
It's hard to know without an example.
But if you are making claims concerning the diversity of the above list of topics and subjects, without formal analysis, data or experimentation, the result is going to be speculation. Such speculation would have to insinuate itself in to the fears and hopes of its reader. UFO stories do this very well. Most people want to believe in magic and are susceptible to the sort of clever persuasion characteristic of Eric Von Daniken.
To be effective you will be less likely to be successful if you actually believe the stuff you are saying, Daniken was a complete charlatan - that enabled him to be especially successful and commercial.

I hope this is useful.
PS. Can you say more about your work, or link it, perhaps?

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Re: My work is "too experimental and non-commercial"

Post by Jklint » April 22nd, 2020, 11:56 pm

Randy333 wrote:
January 12th, 2020, 7:40 pm
I’m curious about the true limits of experimentation in philosophy, art, and literature. It seems there’s a vein of culture that abhors experimentation, and I’m interested to hear some of your thoughts as to the limits of experimentation in our world.
That's just the point. There aren't any true limits in any discipline which forces imagination to the vanguard. That's also the reason why so much of it can be ridiculous or sublime and interchangeable in perception from one beholder to the next. You limit yourself in thinking there are any true limits. Keep silent about limits and your inner world will experiment on its own. Talent largely operates as a separate bandwidth which distorts if it can't properly tune in to its own channel if others from the same source are in too close proximity. All limits are personal as in belonging to that person. Aside from that, there are no limits.

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Re: My work is "too experimental and non-commercial"

Post by Sculptor1 » April 23rd, 2020, 5:16 am

Jklint wrote:
April 22nd, 2020, 11:56 pm
Randy333 wrote:
January 12th, 2020, 7:40 pm
I’m curious about the true limits of experimentation in philosophy, art, and literature. It seems there’s a vein of culture that abhors experimentation, and I’m interested to hear some of your thoughts as to the limits of experimentation in our world.
That's just the point. There aren't any true limits in any discipline which forces imagination to the vanguard. That's also the reason why so much of it can be ridiculous or sublime and interchangeable in perception from one beholder to the next. You limit yourself in thinking there are any true limits. Keep silent about limits and your inner world will experiment on its own. Talent largely operates as a separate bandwidth which distorts if it can't properly tune in to its own channel if others from the same source are in too close proximity. All limits are personal as in belonging to that person. Aside from that, there are no limits.
This person is not purporting to write fiction or fantasy. The list of what you might call alternative-sciences (at best), or pseudo-sciences,are in the business of offering facts.
If fiction and fantasy have few limits, then any genre claiming to offer truth has much more in the way of limitations.
Where fiction and fantasy have the burden only of some of of internal common sense, or a vestige of inherent logic; an account of, say, UFOs, illuminati, crystal healing and the like have to have some sort of coherence on the level of quotidian reality.
So, no, limits are everywhere. They are true and unavoidable.

Jklint
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Re: My work is "too experimental and non-commercial"

Post by Jklint » April 23rd, 2020, 9:09 pm

Sculptor1 wrote:
April 23rd, 2020, 5:16 am
Jklint wrote:
April 22nd, 2020, 11:56 pm


That's just the point. There aren't any true limits in any discipline which forces imagination to the vanguard. That's also the reason why so much of it can be ridiculous or sublime and interchangeable in perception from one beholder to the next. You limit yourself in thinking there are any true limits. Keep silent about limits and your inner world will experiment on its own. Talent largely operates as a separate bandwidth which distorts if it can't properly tune in to its own channel if others from the same source are in too close proximity. All limits are personal as in belonging to that person. Aside from that, there are no limits.
This person is not purporting to write fiction or fantasy. The list of what you might call alternative-sciences (at best), or pseudo-sciences,are in the business of offering facts.
If fiction and fantasy have few limits, then any genre claiming to offer truth has much more in the way of limitations.
Where fiction and fantasy have the burden only of some of of internal common sense, or a vestige of inherent logic; an account of, say, UFOs, illuminati, crystal healing and the like have to have some sort of coherence on the level of quotidian reality.
So, no, limits are everywhere. They are true and unavoidable.
No argument that there are limits everywhere as circumscribed by realities we're all familiar with. But when it comes down to fiction and fantasy, especially the latter, alternate realities are created differing only in their degree of realism. Depending on the type of fiction some level of "quotidian reality" is, as you say, adhered to but in other works from the stream of consciousness method of Finnegans Wake by James Joyce to the total nightmare world of H.P. Lovecraft such boundaries are purposely deconstructed.

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Re: My work is "too experimental and non-commercial"

Post by Sculptor1 » April 24th, 2020, 7:05 am

Jklint wrote:
April 23rd, 2020, 9:09 pm
Sculptor1 wrote:
April 23rd, 2020, 5:16 am

This person is not purporting to write fiction or fantasy. The list of what you might call alternative-sciences (at best), or pseudo-sciences,are in the business of offering facts.
If fiction and fantasy have few limits, then any genre claiming to offer truth has much more in the way of limitations.
Where fiction and fantasy have the burden only of some of of internal common sense, or a vestige of inherent logic; an account of, say, UFOs, illuminati, crystal healing and the like have to have some sort of coherence on the level of quotidian reality.
So, no, limits are everywhere. They are true and unavoidable.
No argument that there are limits everywhere as circumscribed by realities we're all familiar with. But when it comes down to fiction and fantasy, especially the latter, alternate realities are created differing only in their degree of realism. Depending on the type of fiction some level of "quotidian reality" is, as you say, adhered to but in other works from the stream of consciousness method of Finnegans Wake by James Joyce to the total nightmare world of H.P. Lovecraft such boundaries are purposely deconstructed.
Even your example have limits beyond which nonsense ensues to make the books unreadbale.
I do not know who posted the top post, but they seem to be hot and run.
I looked into their name as given on the only other past they made. It led to a list of three books authored by them which were devoid of content.
I think they have been so experimental as to have published empty titles.


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Sculptor1
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Re: My work is "too experimental and non-commercial"

Post by Sculptor1 » April 24th, 2020, 7:08 am

ERROR:
HIT AND RUN.
not
hot and run!!!

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