Philosophy and Schizophrenia

Please post all introductions in this forum. Tell us how you found the philosophy forums, what interests you about philosophy, and a little about you, such as your age, where you live, what you do for a living, etc.
User avatar
Burning ghost
Posts: 3065
Joined: February 27th, 2016, 3:10 am

Re: Philosophy and Schizophrenia

Post by Burning ghost »

Some parts of what you say make perfect sense. Together none of it makes any sense as it’s contradictory on so many fronts I don’t quite know where to start - not that it matters because it is simply a tail chasing exercise.

I can see why you were not told to avoid forums. You can at least see part of the fault as you’ve guessed one question yet you’ve not gone deeper into meaning of “value” and how you can value anything as “good” if you say “evil” is nothing and “good” is something. It is pretty much like saying nothing and no one is evil, but if so then nothing and no one is good either.

It also seems quite perverse to say that an evil act isn’t evil, but a good act is good. Not that you seem to have expressed sufficently how you determine the value of either given that you say one doesn’t exist (quite a contrary statement as you’ve presented your thoughts). What you appear to have here is the beginnings of a dogmatic idealism.

If I sing and everyone including myself takes my action to be that of singing then I am a singer.

I think, I’d I’ll argue VERY strongly here, that to say “belief in evil makes it reasonable to act in an evil way” is massively naive (and even dangerous in some circumstances). For starters you’re talking about “evil” therefore you’re rationalising some form of belief in “evil” because you’re not talking about a concept you have literally no conception of (by definition). Next is the issue of denial of a concept you yourself have defined as “not existing” yet you’ve managed to frame it - as it is an abstract concept and ou can apparently recognise an evil act from a good act (or I hope you at least believe you can well enough to function in society without causing undue harm or injure to some degree) then acting as if bad things (evil) doesn’t exist makes you incredibly vulnerable to suffering at the hand of bad/evil acts.

I’d recommend you read something of Carl Jung and his concept of the Shadow self. That is the part of us that is capable of the most hideous acts that we, for obvious reasons, do our best to ignore. The thing is too much ignorance of this inner force allows it to move and act unseen - this surfaces in seemingly weak forms like simply acts of lying to oneself, playingto public opinion and general egotism. We’re ALL susceptible to these things and none of us can completely dispose of these “faults”. To deny they exist is, in my mind, a very dangerous error if not realised.

I’d highly recommend making an appointment with a psychologist if your psychariatrist isn’t that versed in this area (some psychariatrists lean towards the physiological - neurochemistry, endocrinology and such - whereas the psychologists deal with day-to-day life more and practical life application). Maybe your psychariatrist has a broad enough knowledge though; which seems to be the case given their response to you visiting online forums (see what they say about this.)

Note: I’m not qualified in this area. I just have some personal experience with this kind of thing; take it or leave it. And of cours if you’d rather ignore this and just continue with the discussion then I’d recommend starting a new thread so people don’t get distratced by what you’ve said in the OP.
AKA badgerjelly
Belindi
Moderator
Posts: 3655
Joined: September 11th, 2016, 2:11 pm

Re: Philosophy and Schizophrenia

Post by Belindi »

I agree that evil is absence of good, a state of affairs which is of course, relative. TryingMyBest must be implying that being is better than nothingness.
User avatar
TryingMyBest
Posts: 42
Joined: November 29th, 2018, 4:34 pm

Re: Philosophy and Schizophrenia

Post by TryingMyBest »

@Belindi, Thank you for the "heartfelt moral support." That is powerful and means a great deal to me.

@Burning ghost,
I will read Jung and learn about the Shadow Self. Your critique is useful and will ultimately serve to strengthen my argument and/or direct me toward Truth, so I appreciate your taking the time.

I know that you have poked holes in it, but do you understand the gist of the argument?
Maybe if I make it an if/then statement, I will get my point across more easily:

If "humans can be evil entities" is false, then it is only a matter of time until this realization spreads and influences human behavior for the better.

It may take me some time to prove it to your liking but do you agree with the if/then statement at least?
User avatar
Burning ghost
Posts: 3065
Joined: February 27th, 2016, 3:10 am

Re: Philosophy and Schizophrenia

Post by Burning ghost »

No. Saying that something can happen is the same as saying it will happen is not workable logical statement.

You probably have the beginnings of some kind of position to argue against. I cannot see it yet tbh
AKA badgerjelly
User avatar
Wallows
New Trial Member
Posts: 5
Joined: December 14th, 2018, 7:25 pm

Re: Philosophy and Schizophrenia

Post by Wallows »

Hello,

I can offer some advice or just what I've been through myself.

I have a psychotic disorder that was formerly diagnosed as schizophrenia. I learned to take my medications as prescribed by my doctor. I used to play around with medication and self-medicate with various substances. That's perhaps the best advice I can offer. Namely, not to be your own doctor, take your medications as prescribed, and trust in the ability of your psychiatrist to prescribe the right medication for your issues.

Best of luck to you.
Belindi
Moderator
Posts: 3655
Joined: September 11th, 2016, 2:11 pm

Re: Philosophy and Schizophrenia

Post by Belindi »

The original poster said "it's under control."
User avatar
wordandtruth
New Trial Member
Posts: 5
Joined: March 5th, 2019, 10:37 am

Re: Philosophy and Schizophrenia

Post by wordandtruth »

Hello everyone. I am new on this forum and I want to say thanks for being here to everyone. I want to let everyone know that I love them, that I still think that the power of goodness and truth (that means words in our human world) is greater than barbarism. I think that human touch and teach are way beyond tech. We need to communicate one to another, to share love, not knowledge. As far as I read on this forum you too think the same thing. I am stressing this fact, in order to make you understand that I am a person of goodwill and good deeds and more of a silent thinker than of a chitter-chatter woman. I prefer good academic papers to other fake and new methods. I really give you my best as I always did. Now comes the tough part.

I am from some country in Europe, but I am a citizen of the human civilization. I too was diagnosed with schizophrenia in 1992, without the slightest guilt or delusions or psychiatric symptoms. Since then, they simply kill me, though I was no less, no more than perfection (now I know that you frown, but you don't know my life or my situation of isolation since 1984, absolute poverty, poisoned by others, totally rejected, I was good and kind every day with others etc.) I wrote everywhere (ONGs etc.) and everyone rejected my plea for freedom though I would not have been a danger for the psychiatric foundation of the society. Anyway, 40 years ago, the Italians were right to banish psychology and psychiatry altogether. I studied 23 years of school, I had no mistakes or defects, I could have been useful to others.
In 1978 Italy implemented Law Number 180, the reform law that blocked all new admissions to public mental hospitals. After 40 years without mental hospitals, we aim at understanding the consequences of the Italian reform in terms of mental health care facility and staff availability. We compared the organization of the Italian mental health system with that of countries belonging to the Group of 7 (G7) major advanced economies. Italy has nearly 8 psychiatrists, 20 nurses, 2 social workers and less than 3 psychologists per 100,000 population, while for example in France there were 22 psychiatrists, in Japan 102 nurses, in the United States 18 social workers, and in Canada and France more than 45 psychologists per 100,000 population. In terms of inpatient facilities, no beds in mental hospitals were available in Italy, while in the other G7 countries mental hospital beds ranged from 8 in the United Kingdom to 204 in Japan per 100 000 population. In Italy there were fewer beds for acute care in general hospitals but more beds in community residential facilities than in the other G7 countries.
There were many food p-people like this one in the 20th century: Fraco Bastaglia for example.

I could have proven my normality in every detail, but no one talked with me, and psychiatrists (6 in my life) almost never asked me something.
Giving all this, I felt that it is not fair not to write here my opinion. I apologize towards the team and towards the creator of this thread, who may be really mentally frail. I want him to know that I perfectly understood everything that he told about him and I pity him and respect him altogether. But I want everyone to know that I chose a long time ago the path of truth and anyway no other choice was ever given to me. I never had alternatives, but I am predisposed to be disgusted by lies, because of all my past suffering and because of the criminal lies about me, wrongfully outcasting me from the world and putting me to death and tortures.

It is a shame to write such thing the way the creator of this thread did. It is not fair towards the innocent and good ones, such as me. I repeat, I truly understood all his statements, but maybe he still has bread and endured less isolation than me. Maybe his lies are not visible or entirely known to himself. Maybe he had chosen the way of playing the fool, forced by circumstances, maybe he forgot a part of himself somewhere... or anything else.
Contemporary psychiatric science or psychology - and I successfully studied both fields of knowledge - are newly formed systems, roughly of the same age as the emancipation of women, which was not a bad thing in my opinion, in spite of all the hypocrisy surrounding the subject, as well as about the first two hideous plagues of the 20th century starting their name with psy, which caught me prisoner for life. I am aware that I am a woman and I know perfectly well my limitations in front of men, but in my case they should have accepted to grant me basic human rights, I say only these 4 ones would have been enough:

1. the right to life, the obligation to verify torture or poison if forcefully confessed by the victim and to proper medical care, not only psychiatric care. It is a certain fact, that intelligent people cannot be evil or insane and they are not stupid to confess delusions, but only clear-cut and objective truths that can be tested. Poison, for example, can be judged by fools as delusions because they live under the collective delusion that schizophrenia exists if it is studied in books or treated etc. Of course that the victim is forced to tell the truth about herself and they label it as schizophrenia.
2. the right to have a family, a child too.
3. the right to work if able and be paid at least the necessary to have food and clothes and necessary expenses.
4. the right to study even in Universities, and master or doctoral studies too.
They denied all these rights to me (effectively since 1984, when I was 13 and forced to come and live with my parents, who were really psychopaths and really not my real parents. and I was always right and able to do work and successful studies. I asked many times in vain. The family doctor refused to give me the necessary papers because I was registered as a psychiatric patient. Only these 4 rights are enough for real happiness and the worth of the individual in society. The individual has the moral duty to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth when it is about huge injustice and real crime. He/she has the duty to tell the truth even if it that story concerns another victim, he does not have the obligation to lie and to be an accomplice. I had to intervene in the flow of this thread, it is all the best I can do and the only thing that still connects me with the world and my moral duty too. Apart from these 4 rights, I need to say that even psychiatric patients don't have to be isolated, and have to be accepted, at least in special groups for them. Thye rejected me because my doctor did not want to give me the necessary official act and a copy of my psychiatry clinical interventions, as if she wanted to hide the truth, like all the others always did. Though I was refused to do master studies as if because of the wrongful psychiatric condemnation, she advised me to work at Kaufland as personnel. I never despised or avoided the base jobs because I was really perfect, and I will not tell you here the story of my life, I tell you the truth that she was wrong, just like all the others, merely guard dogs, like Javert was in front of Jean Valjean from Les Miserables.
Of course, I will stop answering other threads here. if you need me for the truth in any philosophical ( I love philosophy) or other knowledge discussion or even about my life, you can privately contact me. I can give you the address to my blog.

I know very well that the world overtly manifests misconceptions about mental illnesses and I cannot change that. Maybe you too are entrenched in illusory and life-damaging self-therapy or motivational books etc. Like this, humans got even farther from each other than they were before, when they had at least the possibility of forming a Robin Hood style band in the woods, hiding from injustice. Nowadays everything is electronically checked and trespassing is impossible, real charity cannot reach the poor and those with real needs, lonely and elder people are really killed or their health is violently damaged (as I saw at least in my city), we became androids far away from each other. As for the suicide in humans, not too long ago, maybe now it is the same, WHO admitted that the main cause for suicide was poverty and/or lacking a job. There is no such thing as a "suicidal" person, at least they are never the way that therapists lie that they are. All they wrote in official papers about me is a lie, even their ideas about my suicide attempt 20 years ago.

At least in good old times of the Roman Empire educated slaves were treated better, as we are taught in history, and we still have the letters of Seneca towards Lucilius. I am not ashamed to say here the words that everyone has the right to say, except for psychiatric patients: truth, justice, persecution, human rights (available to all, not to psychiatric inmates) In fact I am not ashamed to say that it is all because of poverty since birth and having only a small and poor family. Another part of my misfortune seems to be the fact that the authors of this evil crime because that's what it is, seem to feel uncomfortable about their mistakes. I never heard voices or thoughts in my head or around me, of course, I never had hallucinations. Only when I was 35 I began to perceive other's thoughts seemingly about me, in my own mind, and they never talked with me, they only said on and on that they must kill me and hide the truth because it is a shame what they did to me etc. And they continuously told that the shame is upon my people and that's why I must die, though I never had links whatsoever with politics. Even if these thoughts of theirs were evil and porn, I could have done any kind of intellectual work, and they would have disappeared for sure. I could have continued my studies - these garbage doesn't destroy the intellect. But they are very aggressive, and they are really aggressive, in the real world. I am certain that if they knew my value - and that could have been explained to fools and stupid people too - they would have accepted me in the world and grant me those human rights, because I can tell you that my value as an intellectual, though woman, was greater than the damage of shame and honor that they invoke as a reason for their deeds. Most of all, I had a perfect morality and virtues and a very beautiful soul, and just like any other intelligent person, I never boasted about myself, but I was forced to tell the whole truth in the end - andother really perfect individuals do exist, as far as I know, only that they have other personality traits.
I wish you a good day and many more to come, my human kin. Plus, don't forget to smell the roses. Plus, ave world!
User avatar
Burning ghost
Posts: 3065
Joined: February 27th, 2016, 3:10 am

Re: Philosophy and Schizophrenia

Post by Burning ghost »

Wordandtruth -

I got just past halfway through your post. I guess there is a big issue with your understanding of the English language because you don’t make a lot of sense. If no one else has mentioned this to you it is likely due to being schizophenic as word choice is a common feature of this condition - as you know. Assuming this is not the case it is simply a matter of lacking in respect to use of English.

Also, if you quote someone please present link/citation.

Thanks
AKA badgerjelly
User avatar
wordandtruth
New Trial Member
Posts: 5
Joined: March 5th, 2019, 10:37 am

Re: Philosophy and Schizophrenia

Post by wordandtruth »

Burning ghost wrote: March 6th, 2019, 2:11 am Wordandtruth -

I got just past halfway through your post. I guess there is a big issue with your understanding of the English language because you don’t make a lot of sense. If no one else has mentioned this to you it is likely due to being schizophenic as word choice is a common feature of this condition - as you know. Assuming this is not the case it is simply a matter of lacking in respect to use of English.

Also, if you quote someone please present link/citation.

Thanks
Thank you too. I don't really understand what you meant by "going past halfway" yet not making a lot of sense. My condition, as you know, is not related to the use of words in my native language or in English. I tried to present the link for the quote I used, but the system replied that I am not allowed to use links from outside this site. And the word that you respectfully used talking about me was schizophenic, not schizophrenic, a fact that may suggest that you don't think that my diagnostic was correct or just. Although your answer rejects my comment above, I am very happy indeed that you took the time to answer me, because to me is an honor and a really happy circumstance to be in the presence of other people, to be noticed by someone, while being almost totally alone for almost 35 years, and feeling such deep respect for humans and nature and for languages too. In fact, I am still enchanted be the harmonious whole of the Universe and of the civilized people, who made possible the joy of talking and writing and all the other wonders. It is true, everyone rejected me since I was 13, but they used too many lies and violence, while I was perfectly normal from the psychiatric point of view and perfectly good and reasonable as a human being all these years. And, sticking to the content of this thread, I can say that there is no link whatsoever between philosophy and schizophrenia, the same as there is no link between my condition and the use of language, as you suggested. I wish you a good day.
User avatar
Burning ghost
Posts: 3065
Joined: February 27th, 2016, 3:10 am

Re: Philosophy and Schizophrenia

Post by Burning ghost »

This isn’t actually true:
My condition, as you know, is not related to the use of words in my native language or in English.
Impaired and confused use of words in speech and thought is a common symptom of schizophrenia (I sometimes miss a letter when typing due to touch screen).

I never said your diagnosis was incorrect.

Good luck to you. Enjoy yourself :)
AKA badgerjelly
User avatar
wordandtruth
New Trial Member
Posts: 5
Joined: March 5th, 2019, 10:37 am

Re: Philosophy and Schizophrenia

Post by wordandtruth »

Thank you again. Going through my initial post, I noticed a few errors. I can tell for sure that at least some of them were created by the system, the computer. I apologize for that. Also, only now I discovered that my proof-reading tool works better on other sites than here and even better on others, so it is linked to things that I don't know about software. I had another post rejected a few times for proof-reading errors, among other things and now it is still in the queue. From now on, if I will continue to write on this forum, I will proof-read my writings on other sites first. I agree, my English is not perfect, it is what is called the upper-intermediate level.
User avatar
Ensrick
Posts: 37
Joined: March 30th, 2020, 2:34 pm

Re: Philosophy and Schizophrenia

Post by Ensrick »

Burning ghost wrote: December 12th, 2018, 8:00 pmPlus if you have good then you must have evil.
That is a metaphysical claim you may be taking as an axiom. Am I right to say this is an 'either/or fallacy'?

St. Augustine describes evil as dependent on the existence of good but good as not being dependent on evil to exist. Neurologists describe us as deterministic rather than having free will to choose good or evil. In which case, I'm inclined to think that what we know as evil is just may be a pathological problem. Our minds tend to be compelled by narratives that contrast good and evil making it hard to see people for what they are. We idealize some as heroes and others as villains. In all reality, I think most of what we know as evil is a misguided attempt to stop "evil" or a pathological problem.
User avatar
Burning ghost
Posts: 3065
Joined: February 27th, 2016, 3:10 am

Re: Philosophy and Schizophrenia

Post by Burning ghost »

Maybe I should’ve said ‘right and wrong’.
AKA badgerjelly
User avatar
Ensrick
Posts: 37
Joined: March 30th, 2020, 2:34 pm

Re: Philosophy and Schizophrenia

Post by Ensrick »

Right/Wrong, Good/Evil. Both are moral value judgements, the only meaningful distinction in my mind is that Good and Evil are more extreme value judgements. If you were to say, "To have right then you must have wrong." I'd still say that's a metaphysical claim about the nature of morality that is not self evident in a logical sense.
Post Reply

Return to “Introductions”

Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021