An evolutionist

Wmhoerr · Post by **Wmhoerr** » January 3rd, 2019, 7:40 pm

Hi everyone, my name in Winfried Hoerr and I live in australia.
I'm retired after working in science, mostly engineering and mathematics, but my main interest has always been evolution. The idea of altruism (there are many different types of altruism, see chapt. five in evolution-path.org) is one of the most fascinating developments in evolution, particularly the "pure" altruism we are often told by philosophers cannot exist. Their logic is that the pure altruist would be materially disadvantaged and so such genes generating this behaviour would die out. Their logic is good for the past, but in modern times the welfare systems in most countries would keep people alive and so any pure altruism would not die out but spread.If so, the character of our species would change. This would be an incredible development and I hope to write and get some feedback on this subject in this forum.

Post by **LuckyR** » January 4th, 2019, 3:45 am

How do you define "true" altruism?

Wmhoerr · Post by **Wmhoerr** » January 4th, 2019, 6:15 am

The first 3 types of altruism, genetic or kin altruism, reciprocal altruism, and redirected altruism, all help with survival and reproduction and are well documented.
The fourth type, "pure" altruism would not help with survival. No one has ever been able to give an example. Most people don't believe it exists. It is thought that any new genes for pure altruisn would only last a generation or so. There would need to be new genes to generate it.

Post by **LuckyR** » January 5th, 2019, 3:39 am

Wmhoerr wrote: ↑January 4th, 2019, 6:15 am The first 3 types of altruism, genetic or kin altruism, reciprocal altruism, and redirected altruism, all help with survival and reproduction and are well documented.
The fourth type, "pure" altruism would not help with survival. No one has ever been able to give an example. Most people don't believe it exists. It is thought that any new genes for pure altruisn would only last a generation or so. There would need to be new genes to generate it.

The conundrum of pure altruism existing or not reminds me of the idea that there is no such thing as "sacrifice" if the definition of sacrifice is the exchange of something of high value for something of lesser value. The reasoning being let's say that I give a trader $20 for a baseball card that is worth $5 in the market because the player completes a collection of the team I followed as a kid. But the $5 card has additional sentimental value to me thus from my perspective I am not sacrificing the additional $15.

Or if a soldier dives on a live grenade to save his platoon, he is giving his life, but due to his code of honor, it's not a sacrifice because he valued the collective lives of his mates and the personal morality of following the ethical standard of his profession as at least equal to his valuation of his life.