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Extinction is the only solution to human problems. True or f

Discuss any topics related to metaphysics (the philosophical study of the principles of reality) or epistemology (the philosophical study of knowledge) in this forum.
Pages
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Extinction is the only solution to human problems. True or f

Post by Pages » September 19th, 2012, 12:41 pm

This was a conversation between a man and Klaatu (an alien):

Professor Barnhardt: There must be alternatives. You must have some technology that could solve our problem. Klaatu: Your problem is not technology. The problem is you. You lack the will to change. Professor Barnhardt: Then help us change. Klaatu: I cannot change your nature. You treat the world as you treat each other. Professor Barnhardt: But every civilization reaches a crisis point eventually. Klaatu: Most of them don't make it. Professor Barnhardt: Yours did. How? Klaatu: Our sun was dying. We had to evolve in order to survive. Professor Barnhardt: So it was only when your world was threated with destruction that you became what you are now. Klaatu: Yes. Professor Barnhardt: Well that's where we are. You say we're on the brink of destruction and you're right. But it's only on the brink that people find the will to change. Only at the precipice do we evolve. This is our moment. Don't take it from us, we are close to an answer.

For those of you who havn't watched the movie (the day the earth stood still). It was a conversation between an alien and a man. The alien came to save the earth from humans, that is wipe out the human race, claiming there are only a handful of planets in the cosmos that are capable of supporting complex life. That they can't risk the survival of this planet for the sake of one species.

If it was me and it would happen for real, I'd persuade Klaatu to carry on with the process. I would even help him if he needed help. Extinction is the only solution to human problems. Let good and evil fight themselves as forces, forever, since they can't eliminate one another. It'll be non of our business.

Do you think even at the precipice humans can change? Do you think there will ever be a point where humans will change for good? Thoughts??

He called us a destructive race, and I believed him.
The people who were trying to make this world worse are not taking the day off. Why should I?

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Re: Extinction is the only solution to human problems. True

Post by Unsay » September 19th, 2012, 5:05 pm

We have chosen to be a destructive race, therefore we are not a destructive race. Here is a list of objectively-based predicaments for our worldly destruction through critical thought and reason:

A: We have the general choice to fix our world or let it burn, which in turn results in a multitude of people taking the easy way out.

B: Religion and superstition facilitates ignorance, which constitutes an undeveloped life form that is not able to grow or expand on what little they actually know. The practices of religion and/or superstition are dangerous and are followed by fear and conflict that is channeled through their ignorance and actions that influence everything around them.

C: Problems are being nit-picked, which ignores the crucial account that all big conflicts were once small conflicts. Ignoring problems will only lead astray problems that were at once not our problem - now our problem that we are not able to resolve, for we have spent our lives only dealing with the smaller conflicts in life.

D: The political system is a scam that covers up greed, ulterior motives that have created so much confusion and fear, that conspiracy theories have been birthed by pure ignorance and/or people who found out how easy it is to manipulate the ignorance of our people with deceit. Our government is equivalent to children glueing together popsicle sticks, which hinders our growth and development as long as the government and the secular governmental branches are encapsulated by democrats, republicans, conservatives, libertariens and lobbyists rather than focusing on objectivism, critical thought, reason, sensibility and every other aspectual movement that does not involve ''What I want''. An idea does not have a categorical frame; it represents; it self-defines itself. The only reason why the government persists, is solely because we have many school yard bullies hiding behind authoritative protection and power that we are too ignorant and chicken to oppose because we fear we will lose our materials and freedom we have already lost. As long as this monkey business (redundancy) continues, there will be no liberty or freedom in our world because all of that is going down the drain.

E: People take this world too personally, which happens to ignore individual systems of critical thought that encapsulate not only themselves, but the world and everything of it. Many wars and secular movements are based entirely off of people's personal beliefs that do not follow suite with the rest of the system of our world; the system of critical thought and logic that correlates with our world's intrinsic formula.

F: Very few are facing the reality or truth.

G: People fear; people hate; people run; people hide. Our world is consisted of the most intelligent race, while we hide in our shells more than turtles. We run more than cheetahs. We use our intelligence equivalent to the pigs rolling in mud. We fear equivalent to cockroaches. We hate without reason or purpose, when many of us seek purpose and reason.

These are only the few reasons why we are going in circles.

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Re: Extinction is the only solution to human problems. True

Post by Grecorivera5150 » September 20th, 2012, 12:26 am

We are arguably if things go well over the next 100 years,(an I know it is a big IF) this point in history will been seen as an extremely pivotal point in human history. If we can successfully harness the energy of this Information Age we may be able to create a sustainable global ecosystem but the deck is currently stacked against us. There still exists to many cultural biases and to much distrust for us to move forward effectively without potentially coming to ruin through the use of rapidly advancing technology that can be used to kill one another more efficiently. There are many nefarious groups looking to dominate the globes resources and others trying to create partnerships and only time will tell how it plays out. Education is the key !

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Re: Extinction is the only solution to human problems. True

Post by Pages » September 20th, 2012, 6:00 am

Unsay wrote:We have chosen to be a destructive race, therefore we are not a destructive race. Here is a list of objectively-based predicaments for our worldly destruction through critical thought and reason:
You are saying thesame thing. Human race chose to be destructive and "are destructive in nature" is thesame thing. The core basis of human influencial functional nature is choice, isn't it? If you can't separate human from choice then it is human nature. And if the choice is destructive then the nature is destructive.
Unsay wrote:B: Religion and superstition facilitates ignorance, which constitutes an undeveloped life form that is not able to grow or expand on what little they actually know. The practices of religion and/or superstition are dangerous and are followed by fear and conflict that is channeled through their ignorance and actions that influence everything around them.
I can understand that you are not a religious man and so you let your rationality get affected by sentimentality. Religion has nothing to do with the continual increament in the more destructive formation of humans. Frankly, Religion is the ONLY phase of belief that is 'trying' to solve every problem of humanity. So, I can't understand the reason you are even speaking to religion this way.

Unsay wrote:These are only the few reasons why we are going in circles.
All your other points are good. But, these are not the only reasons why we are going in circles. You havn't even seen most of it.
The people who were trying to make this world worse are not taking the day off. Why should I?

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Re: Extinction is the only solution to human problems. True

Post by Syamsu » September 20th, 2012, 10:30 am

Unsay wrote:[Quoted post deleted by Scott.]
What is important is the constitution of the USA. Democracy and freedom of speech. Individually families are important. There needs to be some way to make family-life good. When that is taken care of, people will do the right thing, humanity saved. I think make people pay for social security of familymembers, that gives a handle to make family-life good. For as far as religion goes, the social rule in society must be that all people must accept and support subjectivity in principle. Actually many ideologies come from science which are extremely bad religions, and anti-emotion. Ofcourse many religions are anti-subjectivity too, the one's which say to prove God exists, as a matter of fact, or who use the holy script to say what is right and wrong as fact, instead of opinion.

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Re: Extinction is the only solution to human problems. True

Post by Unsay » September 20th, 2012, 10:47 am

Syamsu,

Science is built on by the passionate people who want to discover the real truth through a real process of finding the truth. Science was framed at first, by philosophical teachings. Do not tell me that their practices are built on bad religions (there is no faith or belief in involved, it is all controlled processes of information) or anti-emotion. Their passion for the truth is emotion. I do not comprehend where you get this obscene information from. Science shapes our world, our world is only corrupted because of business ethics, while Science is only a mutual expedition for the axiomatic truth.

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Re: Extinction is the only solution to human problems. True

Post by Unsay » September 20th, 2012, 12:00 pm

Pages,

[...] I stand by the simple point that religion is definately a massive problem that associates itself to today's ignorance, though.
Last edited by Scott on September 20th, 2012, 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: pm sent to post author

Pages
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Re: Extinction is the only solution to human problems. True

Post by Pages » September 21st, 2012, 2:36 am

Oh My GOD!

Don't tell me scott deleted my post. Common scott it's not fair. There was no attack in the post... I just wanted us to get back on track. Well, unsay I don't remember what i said, I hope you read it.
The people who were trying to make this world worse are not taking the day off. Why should I?

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Re: Extinction is the only solution to human problems. True

Post by Syamsu » September 21st, 2012, 10:09 am

Unsay wrote:Syamsu,

Science is built on by the passionate people who want to discover the real truth through a real process of finding the truth. Science was framed at first, by philosophical teachings. Do not tell me that their practices are built on bad religions (there is no faith or belief in involved, it is all controlled processes of information) or anti-emotion. Their passion for the truth is emotion. I do not comprehend where you get this obscene information from. Science shapes our world, our world is only corrupted because of business ethics, while Science is only a mutual expedition for the axiomatic truth.
It is the same like I said in another posting to you. Scientists are careless with knowledge about freedom, they prefer knowledge about forces. Also scientists have a problem with subjectivity, which is related to their carelessnes with knowledge about freedom. This is why all sorts of ideologies come from science where freedom plays no role, and emotions are brutalized.

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Re: Extinction is the only solution to human problems. True

Post by Philosch » September 21st, 2012, 12:44 pm

Emotions do not have a direct role in scientific discovery. Science is based on empirical evidence and rationality period and end of story. But emotions have a direct role in the application of that discovery as it relates to the human condition after the discoveries are made. As far as extinction being the "only" solution, some context needs to be developed as human extinction is absolutely inevitable. The question is bounded by how long it will take for such extinction to occur. 2k years, 50k years, 10 mil years, 2 billion years? If our own inherent will to violence and self destruction out ways our will to survive then extinction will come sooner rather than later. There are other alternatives that could potentially reduce our tendency toward violence in the mean time. They involve things like Neuroscience, Psychology and yes even pharmaceutical advancements. Humans will continue to evolve because evolution is and ongoing process, we are not static and at the end of our line. We are just at the beginning stages of understanding how to positively influence that process. Whether or not we use that knowledge wisely enough is a big question but at least the potential is there to overcome some of the seemingly fundamental negative characteristics of human kind.

But after all is said and done, the earth, Sun and solar system are all on borrowed time. Even the galaxy has a finite TTL(time to live). So, human extinction is a fact, just a fact without a time frame associated with it. Since this is true then the question becomes what should we be striving for as a species in the mean time whether that time is short or relatively long? Does it matter? Is that question dependent on whether it's a long or short time? Ultimately that question of what should be our purpose in the face of the realization of our finite existence becomes the most important practical question we could collectively ask. We all have to answer that question personally as we reflect on our own mortality so naturally we also have to address our purpose collectively as a species as we contemplate the finite mortality of our entire world.

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Re: Extinction is the only solution to human problems. True

Post by Unsay » September 21st, 2012, 2:21 pm

Syamsu,

I do not know where you get your information about Science choking freedom from, but I know that it does not exist outside of your misinformed head.

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Re: Extinction is the only solution to human problems. True

Post by Syamsu » September 21st, 2012, 3:25 pm

Unsay wrote:Syamsu,

I do not know where you get your information about Science choking freedom from, but I know that it does not exist outside of your misinformed head.
As you know, science has a big problem accepting the fact that freedom is real. I have seen it several times on philosophy forums. The science-minded people say freedom in the sense of alternative results in the moment is not real, let us change the justice system to take account of this fact that freedom is not real.

Also much social darwnism. We are in fact organisms struggling to survive, let us organize society in accordance with this fact. There is an implication in this survival logic that organisms in fact love life. All Darwinists I have seen, including Darwin, treat the existence of love and hate as a matter of fact. So they are against freedom in identifying if love is there or not.

You can see that in the book on the expression of emotion of man and animals, by Darwin. In it Darwin tries to identify with as much certainty as possble, what the underlying emotion is for a facial expression. So it means Darwin treats emotions as matter of fact.

But creationism says that this is wrong, and that love and hate can logically only be a matter of opinion. Take a look at smiley's as facial expression.

:-) = an expression of contented satisfaction

:-) = an expression of cruel sadism

:-) = an expression of vacuous emptiness

:-) = an expression of lustful anticipation

Darwin, and Darwinists generally say, that in principle he could find out what the underlying emotion is, as certain fact. But logic says that the owner of a decision, can only be identifed with a decision.

And that is how social darwinism became a part of darwinism. How nazism and communism, which both professed a rational view on things, which both neglected freedom, stem from Darwinist science. Universities used to be full of communists and eugenicists.

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Re: Extinction is the only solution to human problems. True

Post by Unsay » September 21st, 2012, 3:31 pm

Syamsu,

Face the truth. Chemicals, patterns, influences, abstract systems and fundamental systems attribute our decisions and thought. If you were locked in a room your entire life, you would be a vegetable. There is no free will, we only have much room and linear options that create the illusion of free will. We are only reacting according to our systematical web of information that was formed over the course of our lives.

You do not need to see a serial killer commit an act, to know that this man or woman gives off strange vibes. The human mind is able to formulate a recognizable pattern that allows us to react to.

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Re: Extinction is the only solution to human problems. True

Post by Syamsu » September 21st, 2012, 5:47 pm

That is the sort of mindless superstition which is incredibly dangerous to humanity.

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Re: Extinction is the only solution to human problems. True

Post by Grotto19 » September 21st, 2012, 6:12 pm

"Do you think even at the precipice humans can change? Do you think there will ever be a point where humans will change for good? Thoughts??"

I do think humans can and do change. However it does appear to be a slow process, so I am not certain if confronted with a need for dramatic sudden change we would meet the task. Perhaps if we were able to make the issue crystal clear to the majority it could be done. But that is no easy task, mankind if it is known for anything it would be how we are stubbornly resistant to change our beliefs.

However as to your question will mankind ever be changing for good. I think we have been doing that for some time now. Things may seem bleak today, but if you look at mankind 1000 years ago, we were so much worse then. And even more so 4000 years ago. Perhaps 10000 years ago we had a certain child like innocence, hunting and gathering in the plains. But just like children that could not last. We went through our troubled teen years (ancient and dark ages) and I suspect we are now rash young adults (modern and postmodern). If this analogy holds we should see humanity become a bit more mature, and as we become elderly we may finally see peace and a reduction in our insane drive for production, content in our retirements so to speak. That is perhaps the step we must reach before finally moving on, and becoming something superior to what we are now. Homo Superior will be born from the ashes of Homo Sapiens I suspect, and probably only once Homo Sapien has lived out most if not all of it's lifespan.

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