Is rap art?
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Re: Is rap art?
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Re: Is rap art?
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Re: Is rap art?
It's also possible that all noise is music.
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Re: Is rap art?
I don't agree that "All music is noise and none of it is art". I would be more inclined to agree that all noise is music, though. Take natural surroundings, such as trees, water, birds, etc. While most people would consider noise, Bernie Krause considers it (and persuasively shows) nature is music.
The reason I don't agree with All music-is-noise statement is for my lack of a better usage, an analogy: It's like saying "all food is inedible and none of it is food". Rap is like an edgier type of food, but it's still a food. In fact, spoken word--in the poetry community--some will argue isn't music nor poetry. But it is still art. It is still a type of food.
However, since rap and hip hop incorporate many elements of music, dance, rhythm, rhyme, beat--it would fit into the category of music, and then the category of art. It even has a history as an art.
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Re: Is rap art?
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Re: Is rap art?
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Re: Is rap art?
The fact that we hear birds singing or the noise of passing cars, that doesn't mean that this is music. Because if that was true, then art of music wouldn't exist. The difference with the art is that you have to take the notes to make a piece which expresses the thoughts and feelings of every human. The synthesis of music pieces needs 1)mathematical thinking, 2)a plan of story, 3) a forma, 4)melody, 5) harmonic connection of notes and 6) words which fit musically with the synthesis and are part of the whole which the artist use to express his feelings with his own performance.XavierAlex wrote:I don't agree that "All music is noise and none of it is art". I would be more inclined to agree that all noise is music, though. Take natural surroundings, such as trees, water, birds, etc. While most people would consider noise, Bernie Krause considers it (and persuasively shows) nature is music.
The reason I don't agree with All music-is-noise statement is for my lack of a better usage, an analogy: It's like saying "all food is inedible and none of it is food". Rap is like an edgier type of food, but it's still a food. In fact, spoken word--in the poetry community--some will argue isn't music nor poetry. But it is still art. It is still a type of food.
However, since rap and hip hop incorporate many elements of music, dance, rhythm, rhyme, beat--it would fit into the category of music, and then the category of art. It even has a history as an art.
Do you think that rap, or hip-hop, has all these properties?Would you consider that someone who is performing a classical music piece on the piano it's the same with someone who is just saying a rap or hip-hop piece?
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Re: Is rap art?
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Re: Is rap art?
Does any music fit the thoughts and feeling of EVERY human? No. Most musicians don't follow a classical structure. And not all of them have mathematical thinking, a story, harmony, nor voice. Besides I think we are speaking about a few different things here. A structured piece of classical music can fit all those things, but would it resonate with many the same way as hip hop does? No.Mariakaptain wrote: (Nested quote removed.)
The fact that we hear birds singing or the noise of passing cars, that doesn't mean that this is music. Because if that was true, then art of music wouldn't exist. The difference with the art is that you have to take the notes to make a piece which expresses the thoughts and feelings of every human. The synthesis of music pieces needs 1)mathematical thinking, 2)a plan of story, 3) a forma, 4)melody, 5) harmonic connection of notes and 6) words which fit musically with the synthesis and are part of the whole which the artist use to express his feelings with his own performance.
Do you think that rap, or hip-hop, has all these properties?Would you consider that someone who is performing a classical music piece on the piano it's the same with someone who is just saying a rap or hip-hop piece?
De gustibus non est disputandum
I brought up nature as music not because I was challenging the notion of classical harmonies and Mozart or Chopin. But rather to be a little more loose in the interpretation of music. But you cannot get around the fact that when you surf iTunes for music there is a whole section called Hip-hop. Whether your ears shrivel up when you hear Eminem or whoever doesn't mean it ain't art.
Wow. I think sometimes philosophy takes the obvious and sort of disregards it for its own personal persuasion. Watch out for Elvis.
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Re: Is rap art?
Fleetfootphil wrote:Didn't Cage disprove the notion that music needs a plan, as well as mathematical or any other thinking?
If you don't want, don't use mathematical thinking, it can be also a music piece. No all music we hear has mathematical thnking inside of course, but I referred to it because it is one of the elements that can make a piece more qualitive or because it is a very good element when we compose a poet (this is where I heard about that). But even if you don't use it, the rest elements are needed, and even a simple lyric song has a planning, what is the history I'm going to sing about and how I'll make the piece. In everything there is also planning. So, for all these reasons, I don't think rap is music. I think that a structured piece of classical music and any other music, does resonate vey good and it's not compared with hip-hop. Hip-hop surely has its own style.XavierAlex wrote: (Nested quote removed.)
Does any music fit the thoughts and feeling of EVERY human? No. Most musicians don't follow a classical structure. And not all of them have mathematical thinking, a story, harmony, nor voice. Besides I think we are speaking about a few different things here. A structured piece of classical music can fit all those things, but would it resonate with many the same way as hip hop does? No.
De gustibus non est disputandum
What I wrote here means that art can express the feelings and thoughts of every human. I don't oblige anybody to make a piece of music to express all the feelings and also, all the thoughts of humen, simply because this is not reachable and because this is not art, I guess. But I'm sure that when you hear a song, yes, it indeed expresses the feelings you have sometimes or some thoughts that you may had that are expressed by its lyrics. And this is the difference I think there is between art and rap, as with all the previous elements, rap can't be music for me.Mariakaptain wrote:he difference with the art is that you have to take the notes to make a piece which expresses the thoughts and feelings of every human.
XavierAlex wrote:I brought up nature as music not because I was challenging the notion of classical harmonies and Mozart or Chopin. But rather to be a little more loose in the interpretation of music. But you cannot get around the fact that when you surf iTunes for music there is a whole section called Hip-hop. Whether your ears shrivel up when you hear Eminem or whoever doesn't mean it ain't art.
Ok, forget the example with classic music. I guess that it made more misunderstanding than explaining.Suppose that someone is playing a rock piece. Do you think that it's the same with someone who plays a hip-hop song? I have this opinion for every kind of music. All the kinds have exact these elements above.So, this is why I insist that in contrast with them, rap can't be a music. And it isn't the same with someone playing a piece of any kind of music as when he just says a rap song. Because all of these are art.
Yes, when I look for music in youtube there is a hip-hop section. But I don't regard hip-hop music as art because those songs are categorized in this way in youtube or anywhere. I'll consider it as art or not from what I heard, because hip-hop makes sense for me, it's music for me and covers me. I think that hip-hop is something new that is between rhythme and rhyme without being art so of course it should be written among other music so that someone can search it and find it but this doesn't mean that it is music. And if hip-hop was undoubtly music, then why you make this post here?
No,I like Eminem.From all of the other hip-hop singers I think he is the best and actually I don't hear the others. And I'll hear Elvis, too. So, I think that you didn't interptret me good enough.
If you want to distinguish people as categories of those who listen to classical music and of those who sing hip-hop then these are your own bias and stereytypes of which is the world. I wouldn't classify my self as being someone who represent "philosophy" or being someone between some people who represent "philosophy" or are a movement. i just epxress an opinion which is different from yours and if you want to discriminate people and putting them in categories because they don't have the same opinion with yours I think that this is no good.XavierAlex wrote:Wow. I think sometimes philosophy takes the obvious and sort of disregards it for its own personal persuasion. Watch out for Elvis.
I'm not persuaded by anything but from my opinion. As you have yours.
And maybe it could imply for hip-hop fans who don't hear to any other else that "the hip-hop singers take the obvious and sort of disregards them for their own personal persuasion".
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Re: Is rap art?
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Re: Is rap art?
2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month
Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
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Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
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