I Hate Gays
- Spiral Out
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I Hate Gays
So then along would come other people to quickly condemn me for my views and they would probably say they didn't like me, my display of selfishness or what I was doing to society in the unnecessary trouble and conflict that I was creating.
So it just becomes an intolerance of intolerance and a homophobophobia of a homophobia, and it just gets passed down in turn.
It can be said that both sides are just trying to maintain the rights of people to be happy and live their lives in a way that satisfies their basic Human needs.
What is the moral difference between those who dislike someone for their views, and those who dislike those who dislike someone for their views?
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Re: I Hate Gays
- Hereandnow
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Re: I Hate Gays
In the case of gays marrying and being accepted in general, along with Mill, we assume in the affirmative at the outset. Then the arguments come as to where the harm is done. Interesting to note how Antonin Scalia voted against gay marriage based purely on his nostalgia of the way things have always been, not caring at all about the assumption of a positive right.
Plainly speaking, I simply don't like the gov. telling us what kind of marriage we can have. Who the h**l are they to rule against something that harms no one at all? Where is the basis for judgment against gays? Someone doesn't like it? I don't like oysters, but I'm not going to legislate it.
- Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
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Re: I Hate Gays
Violence acts a great line in the sand. One can be a homophobe or a racist or a sexist, but still be peaceful. In fact, I would propose that many homophobes, racists or sexists are quite tolerant. The very word tolerant seems to imply a dissatisfied, tentative acceptance. Indeed, if someone walks up to you and says "Well I will tolerate Canadians" doesn't this suggest they think negatively of Canadians? In any case, tolerance aside, we can logically divide homophobes (or racists, sexists, etc.) into two groups, those who want to enforce their homophobia with violence and those who do not. They can do this using statism or as vigilante criminals. Similarly, we can divide those who oppose homophobia into the same two groups. Indeed, if anti-homophobes wanted to make it illegal to talk poorly about gays or to question gay rights, that would be drastic infringement of free speech and those mentioned conservative arguments claiming to uphold freedom would be on point. However, as far as the violence thing goes, I think we see it a lot more on the end of the conservative haters if not simply because they have more support for moving from tolerant hate to violent hate since their hate is traditionalist.
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- Spiral Out
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Re: I Hate Gays
What if I just ignored them?Xris wrote:I might detest them but I would not openly oppose them in a violent manner.
I wouldn't classify myself as a conservative, but that doesn't mean I'm a liberal either. I'm not sure I fall into any one classification.Hereandnow wrote:You sound like a conservative Spiral Out
Classing someone as a "homophobe" simply because they don't agree with the homosexual agenda is an intolerance equal to any person who is classing someone as a "****" simply because they don't agree with the heterosexual agenda. What's the difference?Hereandnow wrote:Not all intolerances are created equal, so to speak.
Since the government hands out all of the financial and social benefits, I'd think that they'd have at least some say in the particulars of those benefits.Hereandnow wrote:Plainly speaking, I simply don't like the gov. telling us what kind of marriage we can have. Who the h**l are they to rule against something that harms no one at all?
This is a very important point to be noted.Scott wrote:One can be a homophobe or a racist or a sexist, but still be peaceful.
As reported by Reuters, Russian parliament has recently passed a law banning "homosexual propaganda". I don't think this is any better than calling people "homophobes" because they disagree with homosexual values.Scott wrote:Indeed, if anti-homophobes wanted to make it illegal to talk poorly about gays or to question gay rights, that would be drastic infringement of free speech and those mentioned conservative arguments claiming to uphold freedom would be on point.
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Re: I Hate Gays
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Re: I Hate Gays
- Misty
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Re: I Hate Gays
Spiral Out wrote:If I went about stating that I didn't care for gays, their displays of selfishness or what they were doing to society in the unnecessary trouble and conflict that they are creating then I would be promptly labelled a homophobe by most people that I expressed that opinion to.
So then along would come other people to quickly condemn me for my views and they would probably say they didn't like me, my display of selfishness or what I was doing to society in the unnecessary trouble and conflict that I was creating.
So it just becomes an intolerance of intolerance and a homophobophobia of a homophobia, and it just gets passed down in turn.
It can be said that both sides are just trying to maintain the rights of people to be happy and live their lives in a way that satisfies their basic Human needs.
What is the moral difference between those who dislike someone for their views, and those who dislike those who dislike someone for their views?
People hating each other for their views is not the same thing as hating other people who are different in biological makeup. That being said, it is not hate per se that is the problem but what one does with hate, does hate stay an opinion or does hate become active violence to others, or repress their right to liberty.
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Re: I Hate Gays
If I'm publishing/distributing anti-gay hate literature, I'm technically non-violent but I sure ain't peaceful. (What is the spiritual opposite of the peace Christ gives?) You don't have to physically fight someone to do them harm. In fact, since the pen is mightier than the sword, you can do more harm to gay people while not physically touching any of them than someone who like to brutally beat up gays and then curb-stomp them?One can be a homophobe or a racist or a sexist, but still be peaceful.
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Re: I Hate Gays
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Re: I Hate Gays
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Re: I Hate Gays
I don't doubt what you say here, but that doesn't make prejudice right, it is a human flaw at best in my opinion.Prejudice has shaped human history. Its influence reaches farther, deeper, and wider than you can imagine.
Then what is prejudice about?It's not always about hatred or persecution, though.
Speak for yourself brother, I am aware of all of my prejudices (except the ones I might develop). I have a particular prejudice towards untidy people, who are able to be tidy. It might be unreasonable of me, but the way I see things, everyone should be tidy. That is obviously fallacious of me though. I mean, why should everyone be tidy?We all have common everyday prejudices we're not even aware of.
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Re: I Hate Gays
- Theophane
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Re: I Hate Gays
It's just part of our psychology, IMO. Neither wrong nor right. It can lead to a lot of suffering and injustice, no contest there.Fanman wrote:I don't doubt what you say here, but that doesn't make prejudice right, it is a human flaw at best in my opinion.
It's about pre-judging, that's all. Coming to a certain conclusion before you have all the pertinent information.Then what is prejudice about?
Be careful not to conflate prejudice with dislike or discrimination.Speak for yourself brother, I am aware of all of my prejudices (except the ones I might develop). I have a particular prejudice towards untidy people, who are able to be tidy. It might be unreasonable of me, but the way I see things, everyone should be tidy. That is obviously fallacious of me though. I mean, why should everyone be tidy?
- Spiral Out
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Re: I Hate Gays
What are these limits, precisely? Is it acceptable for me to simply ignore them? If a gay person attempts to start a conversation with me and I simply walk away silently, is that an acceptable expression of my dislike?Xris wrote:Accepting the freedom to express ones hatred for any group has to be within limits.
Since you brought up this particular group in your post, does your principle apply to the hatred of the Nazis? Do you hate the Nazis, and are you "including a bias view or an underlying ignorance"?Xris wrote:No one simply expresses hatred without including a bias view or an underlying ignorance.
Does this mean you cannot hate anything or anyone without being "wrong"?Xris wrote:Can we ever believe hatred as a concept is acceptable?
Potentially, but not necessarily.Xris wrote:Hatred is never a simple expression with no detrimental result.
What if such literature is simply advising people to ignore them? What if such literature is simply recommending that people vote for certain laws? What if such literature is suggesting that people give gays equal rights in order to simply "silence the nuisance"? That is certainly not violent and it is indeed peaceful.Theophane wrote:If I'm publishing/distributing anti-gay hate literature, I'm technically non-violent but I sure ain't peaceful.
So then must the gay agenda be fully acknowledged and "kindly accepted" by the masses simply to avoid any potential "hurt"? Would it be better to "curb-stomp" them?Theophane wrote:You don't have to physically fight someone to do them harm. In fact, since the pen is mightier than the sword, you can do more harm to gay people while not physically touching any of them than someone who like to brutally beat up gays and then curb-stomp them?
The person who is prejudiced might not have any more choice in the matter than the sexual preferences of the person they're prejudiced against. Is it OK to hate the hater, or to dislike the disliker?Fanman wrote:But to hate someone because of the way that they were created, is just a prejudice. Prejudice is a type of fallacy.
What do you think your particular prejudice might be, Theophane? Are you brave enough to offer us that for the purposes of discussion?Theophane wrote:We all have common everyday prejudices we're not even aware of.
Isn't judging quickly or "pre-judging" one of the necessary survival tools of our ancestors? Granted it might be an unnecessary holdover, but like you said, it is part of our being. So then, are you prejudiced against the prejudiced? Do you seek the "pertinent information" as to why someone has these prejudices before you judge them?Theophane wrote:It's about pre-judging, that's all. Coming to a certain conclusion before you have all the pertinent information.
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