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Circumcision. Seeking opinions based on personal experiences

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A_Seagull
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Re: Circumcision. Seeking opinions based on personal experiences

Post by A_Seagull » April 16th, 2018, 12:17 am

Or to put it another way.......:

Circumcision, whether male or female, instigated by the parents and without the child's informed consent is symptomatic of parental selfishness and bullying. It has no place in a civilised society.
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LuckyR
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Re: Circumcision. Seeking opinions based on personal experiences

Post by LuckyR » April 16th, 2018, 3:31 am

Eduk wrote:
April 15th, 2018, 3:40 am
Seagull I may be wrong. But I think the point lucky was making is that if a child broke their arm, for example, who would have the right to consent for them to receive medical care.
Again I might be wrong about the point lucky was making, but why do you think lucky would make that point?
There have been many facets to this topic in the lifetime of this very mature thread. Yes, I did allude to the misunderstanding of the concept of informed consent as it pertains to minors. I did broaden the scope of the discourse to include all medical procedures, since if viewed that way (which a large majority do), then complaints about the idea of circs using the informed consent argument, disappear. However, that idea can be successfully countered by seagulls opinion that circs are barbaric. Though that would apply only to a small subset of those who choose not to make circumcision available to their sons.
"As usual... it depends."

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Re: Circumcision. Seeking opinions based on personal experiences

Post by Belindi » April 16th, 2018, 6:43 am

KathyD wrote:
Until of legal age, parents are morally and even legally responsible for the welfare and actions of their children,


Yes, but not totally. If parents are abusive as many are then the professionals can take over the care of the child in question. It's true that children in the care of professionals, orphans and do on, have been horribly abused. This is why no authority whether parent, teacher, medic or social worker is above the law.
so obviously they should have the right to make basic decisions concerning their welfare.
They do have that right and duty. But parents are often unaware and uneducated about how to feed, clothe, educate, feel and show affection. There are parents for instance who feed their kids until they are grossly fat. There are parents whose religious beliefs are a lot more outrageous than those of the Circumcisers persuasions.

And it is also obviously a very personal decision which nobody has the right to judge anyone else for. And suggesting children should have the right to sue their parents over something like this is ludicrous. The truth is that you do not have the right to judge me or anyone else over such a personal decision. Who are you to judge?
Your son, KathyD, is his own person from his birth to his death. The parent should not arrogantly presume that he the parent knows best until and unless the parent has studied the best authorities on body modification, morality, diet, food buying and preparation, vaccinations, and as far as is reasonable medical interventions. The present fashion for circumcision is due to public ignorance.

If by "you" you refer to people who post to this little website then our moral right to judge is based upon your initial post to this very website, plus that we tend to be responsible people of goodwill. We try less to "judge" ; more to evaluate. The value of circumcision is almost nil. Would you like a list of the reasons not to circumcise?

Is you little son reading this website? I'd like to repeat Lucky's advice not to worry and that he not give the matter another thought.

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Re: Circumcision. Seeking opinions based on personal experiences

Post by Steve3007 » November 3rd, 2018, 6:16 pm

A_Seagull wrote:
Kathyd wrote:it's certainly a parent's right to circumcise (or to not circumcise) their child.
No, parents do not have that right. Children are people too.
What is the significance, to you, of your asserting that children are people here? What's its function? Are you implying that giving children the status of personhood ought to give them protection, under the law, from acts of violence such as circumcision? What if somebody were to declare that children are not people and therefore, by implication, deserve no such protection? If that declaration was acted upon by others, would the person making the declaration be guilty in any way of incitement?

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Re: Circumcision. Seeking opinions based on personal experiences

Post by A_Seagull » November 3rd, 2018, 6:25 pm

Steve3007 wrote:
November 3rd, 2018, 6:16 pm
A_Seagull wrote:No, parents do not have that right. Children are people too.
What is the significance, to you, of your asserting that children are people here? What's its function? Are you implying that giving children the status of personhood ought to give them protection, under the law, from acts of violence such as circumcision? What if somebody were to declare that children are not people and therefore, by implication, deserve no such protection? If that declaration was acted upon by others, would the person making the declaration be guilty in any way of incitement?
As previously stated:
Circumcision, whether male or female, instigated by the parents and without the child's informed consent is symptomatic of parental selfishness and bullying. It has no place in a civilised society.
The Pattern Paradigm - yer can't beat it!

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Re: Circumcision. Seeking opinions based on personal experiences

Post by Steve3007 » November 3rd, 2018, 6:32 pm

Why did you choose to assert that children are people in order to make this point? How is it relevant?

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Re: Circumcision. Seeking opinions based on personal experiences

Post by Steve3007 » November 3rd, 2018, 6:35 pm

Somebody who says that children aren't people, with all that is implied by that, is simply exercising their right to freedom of speech right? A parent who asserts that their child is not a person and that they therefore have the right to commit acts of violence against that child, such as circumcision, is simply exercising their right to free speech, yes?

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Re: Circumcision. Seeking opinions based on personal experiences

Post by Belindi » November 3rd, 2018, 8:18 pm

I guess that if this were publicly announced the adult in question would be announcing her intention to commit a crime.

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Re: Circumcision. Seeking opinions based on personal experiences

Post by LuckyR » November 5th, 2018, 3:20 am

Belindi wrote:
November 3rd, 2018, 8:18 pm
I guess that if this were publicly announced the adult in question would be announcing her intention to commit a crime.
If it was publicly announced? You do know that folks throw parties to celebrates brises, right?
"As usual... it depends."

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Re: Circumcision. Seeking opinions based on personal experiences

Post by Belindi » November 5th, 2018, 12:49 pm

I had to google it. Lucky and now am better informed, thanks.

n. pl. bris·es Judaism
The rite or ceremony of male circumcision, usually performed on the eighth day of life.


One does not approve of cutting bits off babies.

I wonder when male circumcision will become generally illegal, or will God always be obsessed with foreskins.

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A_Seagull
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Re: Circumcision. Seeking opinions based on personal experiences

Post by A_Seagull » November 5th, 2018, 2:56 pm

Steve3007 wrote:
November 3rd, 2018, 6:32 pm
Why did you choose to assert that children are people in order to make this point? How is it relevant?
The point is that those who would seek to circumcise others would not do so so nonchalantly if the genital mutilation was to be carried out on a 21 yr old adult rather than a defenceless child.
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Re: Circumcision. Seeking opinions based on personal experiences

Post by Atreyu » November 6th, 2018, 7:02 pm

What I find most interesting about this thread is that Kathy clearly and openly admits that "additional stuff" was done, and yet no one here confronted her about that. So this post was not really about circumcision per se. It was about the willful and intentional alteration of a young boy's genitals for dubious reasons. And yet everyone here is acting as if we are talking about a normal circumcision, which I find almost shocking. Just look at how she herself describes these "additional procedures":
She told me that she will remove all of the foreskin down the entire shaft, as well as all of the frenulum, which will maximize the reduction in sensitivity. This in contrast to a typical modern circumcision, in which only the upper portion of the foreskin is removed, leaving a lot of foreskin at the base of the penis (as well as the entire frenulum), which still makes masturbation quite pleasurable. She also said she will trim off the outer ‘ridge’ of his glans, thereby removing some of the pleasurable friction a partner normally feels from a circumcised penis, and she will even snip some of the lateral nerves which run from the main dorsal nerve to further reduce sensitivity.
And she said the next most painful parts would occur after the nerve block wore off, because there would be about an hour delay between the regular circumcision and the additional stuff she's doing. So the nerve block would no longer be effective by the time she was snipping some of his lateral nerve branches and trimming up the edges of his glans, something she admitting to me was going to be "excruciatingly" painful.
Plus, remember that my sister is going to remove about 1/2 of the lateral nerves right as they branch off from the main dorsal nerve, which theoretically should lead to another 50% reduction in sensitivity.
Too much scar tissue. This was not actually due to the circumcision itself, but was caused by the extra stuff she did to further reduce sensitivity. There are two long vertical scars going down the length of his penis from the trimming of some of the lateral nerves, and a scar around his glans from where she ‘trimmed’ it up.
So this was not really a "circumcision". This really was a genital mutilation, in the true sense of the word. And quite possible illegal, or at least it should be. Why did she get a pass on this? :?

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Re: Circumcision. Seeking opinions based on personal experiences

Post by Eduk » November 6th, 2018, 7:36 pm

I don't feel like writing down the obvious truth on a forum ever makes any difference.
Unknown means unknown.

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