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Creationism is the best philosophy

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Burning ghost
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Re: Creationism is the best philosophy

Post by Burning ghost » October 12th, 2018, 6:18 am

Steve3007 wrote:
October 12th, 2018, 6:02 am
Burning ghost wrote:I am going to LOCK this thread soon.
Are you going to choose to lock the thread? Or will your actions be inevitably determined by the poor quality of the posts herein?
As i’ve expressed before I will not lock it without opening a new thread. If only yourself and Syamsu wish to protest about this I’ll still lock it because it s crystal clear that the title is silly and that people have replied assuming (by no fsult of their own) that Syamsu is referring to Creationism as I posted with link to Stanford site and their philosophical reference.

Sadly I cannot edit thread titles.

I am doing this because I believe Syamsu has something to say and I believe it is better if people don’t misunderstand what he is saying due to misuse of established terminology.
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Burning ghost
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Re: Creationism is the best philosophy

Post by Burning ghost » October 12th, 2018, 6:19 am

Syamsu -

Go ahead and define “Creationism” then as a philosophical principle please.
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Eduk
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Re: Creationism is the best philosophy

Post by Eduk » October 12th, 2018, 6:20 am

I have already explained the meaning of the word fact in the OP.

A fact is obtained by evidence of a creation forcing to produce a 1 to 1 corresponding model of it.
You did say that. I have no idea what that means though. You seem to struggle with real world examples. I mean I said if I leave my bread in the toaster too long it burns and you assume the toaster is broken. It seems to me there are many other possibilities, can you think of any? If you had to apply bayesian probability to the possibilities where would a broken toaster rank? You then seem to struggle to give a methodological way to test said toaster for faults. For example I would turn the timer to the lowest setting so as to check the function as quickly as possible. I would put bread in the toaster (unless I wanted toast) as that would be wasteful. And I was also time the function on my phone, so that I could be sure of the timing beyond simply my subjective guess. Finally you seem to struggle over simple typos?
I mean if you are so imprecise and confused and ready to jump to conclusions over something as simple as a toaster then why would I assume you have the logic required to redefine logic? This is ignoring the fact that what you say about facts makes no logical sense (which to be fair was a bit of a red herring), still I do like practical examples.
Unknown means unknown.

Steve3007
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Re: Creationism is the best philosophy

Post by Steve3007 » October 12th, 2018, 6:23 am

Burning ghost wrote:Syamsu -

Go ahead and define “Creationism” then as a philosophical principle please.
viewtopic.php?p=103494#p103494
Syamsu wrote:What creationism does is to distinghuish fact from opinion, validating both in their own right. Then later came materialism which said that only facts are valid. But materialism led to social darwinist pseudoscience, where opinions about what should and should not, were represented as if they were facts, because everything is a matter of fact for the materialist.
etc.

Syamsu
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Re: Creationism is the best philosophy

Post by Syamsu » October 12th, 2018, 6:24 am

Burning ghost wrote:
October 12th, 2018, 6:19 am
Syamsu -

Go ahead and define “Creationism” then as a philosophical principle please.
The general structure of a creation theory, without specifics as to who created what when, which are variables.

Eduk
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Re: Creationism is the best philosophy

Post by Eduk » October 12th, 2018, 6:31 am

You define creationism as a creation theory?
Facts are facts.
Materialism is materialism.
Subjectivity is subjectivity.
Brexit means brexit.
Then we are supposed to understand how creationism verifies facts? I suspect the answer will be creationism verifies facts because creationism, being a theory of creation, verifies facts.
Unknown means unknown.

Syamsu
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Re: Creationism is the best philosophy

Post by Syamsu » October 12th, 2018, 6:31 am

Eduk wrote:
October 12th, 2018, 6:20 am
This is ignoring the fact that what you say about facts makes no logical sense (which to be fair was a bit of a red herring), still I do like practical examples.
So you don't understand what it means for a statement of fact to correspond 1 to 1 with what the fact is about,?

There is water on mars.
There is a mango tree by the river.
There is a pink elephant in the square.

These statements of fact are accurate if they correspond 1 to 1 with what the statements are about.

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Burning ghost
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Re: Creationism is the best philosophy

Post by Burning ghost » October 12th, 2018, 6:32 am

Steve -

Saying what something apparently “does” without any actual method explicated is useless. It is like saying “life” is that which makes televisions and sits on toilets.

Syamsu -

So you’re referring to ontology. Call it ontology not creationism. We both know what “Creationism” means.

If you wish to argue that “ontology” is the best philosophy go ahead. You can then get more sepecifc and talk of how “objects” are created and what creation means allng those terms. To say “Creationism” is silly in the say you’re tryign to sell it.
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Eduk
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Re: Creationism is the best philosophy

Post by Eduk » October 12th, 2018, 6:33 am

By the way BG please feel free to lock. I was under the impression that preaching was not allowed (although to be fair you would have to close all the posts if you held people to that).
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Eduk
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Re: Creationism is the best philosophy

Post by Eduk » October 12th, 2018, 6:36 am

These statements of fact are accurate if they correspond 1 to 1 with what the statements are about.
So facts are facts if, and only if, they are facts? That's kind of obvious but that isn't what fact means. Fact is a useful non circular concept.
Unknown means unknown.

Steve3007
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Re: Creationism is the best philosophy

Post by Steve3007 » October 12th, 2018, 6:38 am

Burning ghost wrote:Steve -

Saying what something apparently “does” without any actual method explicated is useless. It is like saying “life” is that which makes televisions and sits on toilets.
viewtopic.php?p=125297#p125297

etc.

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Burning ghost
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Re: Creationism is the best philosophy

Post by Burning ghost » October 12th, 2018, 6:39 am

Eduk wrote:
October 12th, 2018, 6:33 am
By the way BG please feel free to lock. I was under the impression that preaching was not allowed (although to be fair you would have to close all the posts if you held people to that).
It is not my intent to shut down a possible discussion no matter my position. It seems clear to me that people are not understanding what is meant by Syamsu.

I a trying to help Syamsu and other engage in something NOT block someone fro expressing their thoughts.

Once LOCKED I will open another thread and link it to this one. The number one issue is the inappropriate title. If I’m going to lock this then I believe it is helpful for all involved to establish what Syamsu is saying/asking/investigating. I’m familiar with what he’s said before and he became frustrated at his last attempt as did many others trying to engage with him.

He is back, he cares. That is a good sign and I hope I can help more than hinder. If I mess up that is my mistake not my intention.
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Burning ghost
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Re: Creationism is the best philosophy

Post by Burning ghost » October 12th, 2018, 6:42 am

Steve -

I know. I remember. I was hoping Syamsu had been able to express his ideas differently since then and could perhaps articulate his thoughts differently, and/or refine his previious attempts.

I gather understand where I am coming from? People see “Creationism” and think one thing because it has a specific meaning in biological evolution.
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Syamsu
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Re: Creationism is the best philosophy

Post by Syamsu » October 12th, 2018, 6:43 am

Burning ghost wrote:
October 12th, 2018, 6:32 am
If you wish to argue that “ontology” is the best philosophy go ahead. You can then get more sepecifc and talk of how “objects” are created and what creation means allng those terms. To say “Creationism” is silly in the say you’re tryign to sell it.
It is not silly to generalize a principle.

If I would limit creationism to abrahamic creation theories, then you would complain about other creation theories being excluded.

Steve3007
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Re: Creationism is the best philosophy

Post by Steve3007 » October 12th, 2018, 6:48 am

Burning ghost wrote:I know. I remember. I was hoping Syamsu had been able to express his ideas differently since then and could perhaps articulate his thoughts differently, and/or refine his previious attempts.
I admire your optimism, but the chance of that appears to me to be, essentially, zero. I am one of many posters who have, in the distant past, had long, long fruitless discussions with Syamsu. I've found that no matter what you say he will always just tell you the same standard line: that you are treating matters of opinion as matters of fact. I have discovered in the past that he will tell you that you're doing that even if you repeat his own words back to him in a slightly different form.

This is the great irony of Syamsu. He is, in terms of what he says and how he says it, one of the most deterministic posters on this site.

Locked