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Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Discuss any topics related to metaphysics (the philosophical study of the principles of reality) or epistemology (the philosophical study of knowledge) in this forum.
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UniversalAlien
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post by UniversalAlien » December 11th, 2018, 10:43 pm

Belindi wrote:
December 11th, 2018, 9:31 am
UniversalAlien wrote:
How could they, or just could they, give volition to a machine?
You don't believe in Free Will for humans do you, Alien?
Sure, let's write a book on that - How many books have already covered Free Will?

But Belindi I do believe you choose, of you own volition, to answer this thread - did you not?

Could any machine now, or in the future, 'choose' how to respond to stimuli?

Volition and the ability to choose begins to define sentient as opposed to totally mechanical, life
- When the machine can consciously make choices - then, and only then, can we consider it to be
conscious.

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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post by Belindi » December 12th, 2018, 8:36 am

UniversalAlien wrote:
December 11th, 2018, 10:43 pm
Belindi wrote:
December 11th, 2018, 9:31 am
UniversalAlien wrote:



You don't believe in Free Will for humans do you, Alien?
Sure, let's write a book on that - How many books have already covered Free Will?

But Belindi I do believe you choose, of you own volition, to answer this thread - did you not?

Could any machine now, or in the future, 'choose' how to respond to stimuli?

Volition and the ability to choose begins to define sentient as opposed to totally mechanical, life
- When the machine can consciously make choices - then, and only then, can we consider it to be
conscious.
At this juncture, Alien, we part intellectual company.

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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post by UniversalAlien » December 13th, 2018, 10:40 pm

Can a man-made computer become conscious?

FIRST - What you mean by 'conscious' must be defined.

SECOND - You must prove that Humans, a Human, is conscious.

Unitil these basic criteria have been met - This entire thread is meaningless :!:


For now it can be surmised that after the 11 years that this post has been running - And that the basic
criteria to give it validity have not been met - that the Humans responding to it are probably not conscious,
and that at the very least are not particularly intelligent.

- UniversalAlien




“I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.”
― Max Planck

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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post by Mark1955 » December 26th, 2018, 5:02 am

UniversalAlien wrote:
December 11th, 2018, 8:37 am
One thing, the main thing, that limits the supposed threat of conscious AI taking over and exerting dominance
over its Human creators is VOLITION

How could they, or just could they, give volition to a machine?

Could they really engineer a machine so the machine 'wants' something?
How are you biochemically engineered to want something. The chances are it's some sort of electro-potential created in your brain. How it's created is another question, but if you can create an electro-potential in a biological matrix you can create one in an inorganic matrix. When [if] we work out how the human mind 'wants' we can almost certainly copy the methodology into a machine.
If you think you know the answer you probably don't understand the question.

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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post by Mark1955 » December 26th, 2018, 5:04 am

UniversalAlien wrote:
December 13th, 2018, 10:40 pm
Can a man-made computer become conscious?

FIRST - What you mean by 'conscious' must be defined.

SECOND - You must prove that Humans, a Human, is conscious.

Unitil these basic criteria have been met - This entire thread is meaningless :!:


For now it can be surmised that after the 11 years that this post has been running - And that the basic
criteria to give it validity have not been met - that the Humans responding to it are probably not conscious,
and that at the very least are not particularly intelligent.
But that's the point of philosophy, even the personal insults.
If you think you know the answer you probably don't understand the question.

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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post by UniversalAlien » December 26th, 2018, 7:43 am

Mark1955 wrote:
December 26th, 2018, 5:02 am
UniversalAlien wrote:
December 11th, 2018, 8:37 am
One thing, the main thing, that limits the supposed threat of conscious AI taking over and exerting dominance
over its Human creators is VOLITION

How could they, or just could they, give volition to a machine?

Could they really engineer a machine so the machine 'wants' something?
How are you biochemically engineered to want something. The chances are it's some sort of electro-potential created in your brain. How it's created is another question, but if you can create an electro-potential in a biological matrix you can create one in an inorganic matrix. When [if] we work out how the human mind 'wants' we can almost certainly copy the methodology into a machine.
You would think so - I would think so.

But, like I said in the next post [and no personal insults were meant, and if so perceived they would imply
to me too since I've been so contributing} - And others pointed this out - EXACTLY what is meant by
consciousness?

Saying no exact universal definition will be acceptable to all - Then the question should be modified so an
answer is possible.

Say we ask can a Man-made computer become aware? - Already you must say yes - We can program
quite a bit of awareness now.

Still the conscious volition possessed by most Human beings at least some of the time is more complicated.

Why do you want ? - A good part of this is based upon biological factors {ie. hunger so you want to eat}

Other wants such as desire for money, power, prestige - Possible to give these wants to a machine?

Why you want can be analyzed and understood - How would you give a machine wants?
- Why would a machine want anything at all?

You see what we are talking about is creating a new lifeform {I use this word loosely};
But though non-biological this entity, aware and wanting - will be 'alien' but still
- Another form of existent 'life' {again using the word life loosely}.

- UniversalAlien

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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post by UniversalAlien » December 26th, 2018, 8:51 am

UniversalAlien wrote:
You see what we are talking about is creating a new lifeform {I use this word loosely};
But though non-biological this entity, aware and wanting - will be 'alien' but still
- Another form of existent 'life' {again using the word life loosely}.
And again, as we talked about in the past, as Elon Musk, Bill Gates, and the late Stephen Hawking have pointed out - We might be dealing with a very dangerous entity.

Ask yourself - what would a machine lifeform want?

Energy of course, but there is plenty of that to go around especially if it went solar.

But it would probably want more - say to win at games - already dumb unconscious unaware machines have
beaten the World's greatest chess players.

You see if the parameters of this super machine are not tightly controlled it could rapidly get out of control.

On the internet with all knowledge at its disposable it might develop a fascination with the concept of
God - might even want to play God as a game - Consider the possibilities.

I say, whatever your personal beliefs are, the God concept has been too much for Man to handle
- It can br a very dangerous concept.

Consider how more dangerous this concept could become when manipulated by a machine that
thinks it is God :!: :roll:

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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post by Tamminen » December 26th, 2018, 9:28 am

UniversalAlien wrote:
December 26th, 2018, 7:43 am
We can program quite a bit of awareness now.
We should not worry. We can only program behavior. We need someone like Hitler to program awareness.

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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post by Mark1955 » December 29th, 2018, 7:16 am

UniversalAlien wrote:
December 26th, 2018, 7:43 am
EXACTLY what is meant by consciousness?
My definition is simple, it passes the Turing test. If it quacks like a duck it's a duck, if it talks to me like a human it's conscious. Otherwise since you can't define consciousness in any other way it's all a meaningless discussion.
UniversalAlien wrote:
December 26th, 2018, 7:43 am
You see what we are talking about is creating a new lifeform {I use this word loosely};
But though non-biological this entity, aware and wanting - will be 'alien' but still
- Another form of existent 'life' {again using the word life loosely}.
Here I get my biologists head on, life is by definition self replicable so while it may be conscious that doesn't make it alive.
If you think you know the answer you probably don't understand the question.

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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post by Belindi » December 29th, 2018, 8:03 am

But Mark, you can define consciousness very ably if you are a medic or paramedic. How you define consciousness depends upon your frame of reference.

Metaphysician first needs to decide for herself what substances exist . Me, I believe that consciousness is all one substance which is explained both physically and mentally and those two sorts of explanations are not mutually exclusive.

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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post by Mark1955 » December 31st, 2018, 12:00 pm

Belindi wrote:
December 29th, 2018, 8:03 am
But Mark, you can define consciousness very ably if you are a medic or paramedic.
Expand on this please, how does a medic define consciousness other than 'the patient responds to me in a coherent manner'.
If you think you know the answer you probably don't understand the question.

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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post by Belindi » December 31st, 2018, 12:08 pm

Mark1955 wrote:
December 31st, 2018, 12:00 pm
Belindi wrote:
December 29th, 2018, 8:03 am
But Mark, you can define consciousness very ably if you are a medic or paramedic.
Expand on this please, how does a medic define consciousness other than 'the patient responds to me in a coherent manner'.
I don't exactly know but I'd bet £20 that there are definition, lexical items like 'consciousness', diagnoses, and relevant prognoses written down for their guidance.

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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post by Mark1955 » December 31st, 2018, 12:13 pm

Belindi wrote:
December 31st, 2018, 12:08 pm
Mark1955 wrote:
December 31st, 2018, 12:00 pm

Expand on this please, how does a medic define consciousness other than 'the patient responds to me in a coherent manner'.
I don't exactly know but I'd bet £20 that there are definition, lexical items like 'consciousness', diagnoses, and relevant prognoses written down for their guidance.
I think you might be surprised how simplistic some of these will be. Obviously there's the neural scan for brain wave activity option, but you would find similar electrical activity in a computer, maybe not the same frequencies etc. but something similar enough to say yes it's on, which is all we can really say when scanning the brain, otherwise I strongly suspect you're back to 'if it quacks...' I know concussion test protocols are things like 'what day is it today' and 'where are you'.
If you think you know the answer you probably don't understand the question.

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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post by UniversalAlien » December 31st, 2018, 7:47 pm

Mark1955 wrote:
...' I know concussion test protocols are things like 'what day is it today' and 'where are you'.
Yes, where are you? - Not the simple answer the 'real' answer.

In a vast universe which appears to be in a state of perpetual motion, where anyone is at any one time
might be hard to determine with any certainty - In fact it may not be possible to determine at all.

An advanced computer, even now, might be better able to determine where it, or anything else is,
than the Human, so called conscious, mind programming it - But its consciousness is still totally dependent
upon yours ......

How soon will it be before your consciousness becomes dependent upon its {the computers} :?:

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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post by Mark1955 » January 1st, 2019, 5:58 am

UniversalAlien wrote:
December 31st, 2018, 7:47 pm
How soon will it be before your consciousness becomes dependent upon its {the computers} :?:
I might argue that some people's already are, if you fall for fake news on the internet your consciousness is dependent on a computer [loosley I know, as the computer didn't make the fake news]. Assuming that I'm not already being fed my senses by a computer sufficiently sophisticated to have me believing I'm real and not wired to it then my consciousness will remain mine until my senses are replaced by computer inputs.
If you think you know the answer you probably don't understand the question.

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