Free will does not exist (Beware)

Use this philosophy forum to discuss and debate general philosophy topics that don't fit into one of the other categories.

This forum is NOT for factual, informational or scientific questions about philosophy (e.g. "What year was Socrates born?"). Those kind of questions can be asked in the off-topic section.
Post Reply
User avatar
Burning ghost
Posts: 3065
Joined: February 27th, 2016, 3:10 am

Re: Free will does not exist (Beware)

Post by Burning ghost »

Djacob7 wrote: February 7th, 2019, 1:30 am
Burning ghost wrote: February 7th, 2019, 12:55 am Humanity is wonderful. If you are antihuman then ... well, er ...

We’re intelligent because we’re capable of more and able to fix things (including ourselves). Inevitably all species wil be gone one day, but we’re certainly quite different to other species (the confused ape as Sa-olsky puts it; neither one thing or the other).
The day isn't too far when machines will be more intelligent than humans. Not in all areas, but certainly in making and fixing things, including themselves.
AI is way, way ,way off actually. Unless you can provide evidence of anyone of any decent reputation in the field who believes otherwise? Professional opinion has more weight than your obviously uninformed conjecture so present please.

You do at least understand that a calculator is not intelligent right? Computers compute, they don’t think. The first computers were humans, but we’re not very good as logic and number crunching so faster machines were created to do the leg work for us.

Robots are not intelligent. Lots of labour is/will be replaced by automated units for sure. There isn’t anyone in the field of AI to my knowledge that believes AI is likely to happen anytime soon - if you meant within the next 100 years then maybe? Within 5, no chance. Within 20, highly improbable but even so we’re likely to see AI develop incrementally not overnight so we’ll have time to discuss these issues as and when they develop.

But you seem to think we’re all robots anyway so I guess it doesn’t matter what I say?
AKA badgerjelly
Djacob7
Posts: 35
Joined: October 23rd, 2017, 4:26 am

Re: Free will does not exist (Beware)

Post by Djacob7 »

Burning ghost wrote: February 7th, 2019, 2:00 am
Djacob7 wrote: February 7th, 2019, 1:30 am

The day isn't too far when machines will be more intelligent than humans. Not in all areas, but certainly in making and fixing things, including themselves.
AI is way, way ,way off actually. Unless you can provide evidence of anyone of any decent reputation in the field who believes otherwise? Professional opinion has more weight than your obviously uninformed conjecture so present please.

You do at least understand that a calculator is not intelligent right? Computers compute, they don’t think. The first computers were humans, but we’re not very good as logic and number crunching so faster machines were created to do the leg work for us.

Robots are not intelligent. Lots of labour is/will be replaced by automated units for sure. There isn’t anyone in the field of AI to my knowledge that believes AI is likely to happen anytime soon - if you meant within the next 100 years then maybe? Within 5, no chance. Within 20, highly improbable but even so we’re likely to see AI develop incrementally not overnight so we’ll have time to discuss these issues as and when they develop.

But you seem to think we’re all robots anyway so I guess it doesn’t matter what I say?
"...provide evidence of anyone of any decent reputation in the field who believes otherwise?"
How about Elon Musk, Sam Harris, Yuval Harari, just off the top of my head.

"The first computers were humans,..."
Really?
User avatar
Burning ghost
Posts: 3065
Joined: February 27th, 2016, 3:10 am

Re: Free will does not exist (Beware)

Post by Burning ghost »

I said people in the field of artificial intelligence. Elon Musk is an engineer, Sam Harris’s main concern is religiosity and consciousness, and Harari is an historian (does he say that we’ll have AI anytime soon?).

I hate to break it to you but the consensus among experts in the field is that we’re nowhere near creating intelligence. You won’t get another response from me until you do some actual research because it appears your understanding is facile at best, and plain ignorant at worst.

Anyway, do any them actually say AI will be here within a decade or two? I believe Musk says cyborgs are already here and I agree. I’d say a century is perhaps a reasonable guess; 10-20 yrs is not.

Look at the actual scientific research before agreeing with populat social figures.
AKA badgerjelly
Djacob7
Posts: 35
Joined: October 23rd, 2017, 4:26 am

Re: Free will does not exist (Beware)

Post by Djacob7 »

Burning ghost wrote: February 7th, 2019, 3:32 am I said people in the field of artificial intelligence. Elon Musk is an engineer, Sam Harris’s main concern is religiosity and consciousness, and Harari is an historian (does he say that we’ll have AI anytime soon?).

I hate to break it to you but the consensus among experts in the field is that we’re nowhere near creating intelligence. You won’t get another response from me until you do some actual research because it appears your understanding is facile at best, and plain ignorant at worst.

Anyway, do any them actually say AI will be here within a decade or two? I believe Musk says cyborgs are already here and I agree. I’d say a century is perhaps a reasonable guess; 10-20 yrs is not.

Look at the actual scientific research before agreeing with populat social figures.
"You won’t get another response from me until you do some actual research because it appears your understanding is facile at best"
Thank goodness!
Karpel Tunnel
Posts: 948
Joined: February 16th, 2018, 11:28 am

Re: Free will does not exist (Beware)

Post by Karpel Tunnel »

Burning ghost wrote: February 7th, 2019, 3:32 am I said people in the field of artificial intelligence. Elon Musk is an engineer, Sam Harris’s main concern is religiosity and consciousness, and Harari is an historian (does he say that we’ll have AI anytime soon?).

I hate to break it to you but the consensus among experts in the field is that we’re nowhere near creating intelligence. You won’t get another response from me until you do some actual research because it appears your understanding is facile at best, and plain ignorant at worst.

Anyway, do any them actually say AI will be here within a decade or two? I believe Musk says cyborgs are already here and I agree. I’d say a century is perhaps a reasonable guess; 10-20 yrs is not.

Look at the actual scientific research before agreeing with populat social figures.
I don't think there is a discrete set of functions that means now we have AI and before this date we did not. We already have functionally intelligent software/hardware moving into a variety of fields. It may not, yet, replace an specific, human resources person, but it is reducing the need for hiring many, by replacing portions of many HR people jobs. That's one example from one field.

Now someone will say, that is not artificial intelligence. They might add that it cannot pass a Turning Test. But it is performing tasks that would have been considered signs of intelligence. This will likely move ahead in small steps in many fields.

Of course there may be a discrete point if these entities go off reservation, become at least from the outside entities that go for what they want and not what we want. That might be trackable to a particular day. And there are healthy concerns about that happening.

There are also concerns about the second 'industrial' revolution, where the mental tasks of workers are taken over by machines. This is happening. And it's not just crunching numbers, it is a wide range of skills and tasks that are already being replaced.

This of course is complicated as a set of causes. We weathered the first industrial revolution (including the machine take over of agriculture) so most people assume it'll all just work out. Humans will just find new stuff to do for money.

It's just no clear to me what that will be in the long run.

Though personally I am much more concerned about the off the reservation stuff.
aveenire
Posts: 32
Joined: March 21st, 2019, 12:48 pm

Re: Free will does not exist (Beware)

Post by aveenire »

A deterministic system as I mentioned halts in a situation when options are liked equally.
Darshan
Posts: 174
Joined: February 16th, 2013, 9:11 pm

Re: Free will does not exist (Beware)

Post by Darshan »

Earthellism agrees that the concept of free will died during WWII. The Diary of Ann Frank was based on the concept of free will and Ann Frank lamented how her free will was cancelled by Hitler. The last century proved that the concept of free will does not solve the problem of evil. This century the solution to the problem of evil comes down to atheism or earthellism. Atheism fails to solve the problem of evil because if it did Hitler would have won WWII. Atheism fails to explain how Love defeats Evil when on a level playing field. When we see Evil defeat Love it is because Evil has cheated to unlevel the playing field. Atheism also fails because in WWII those who killed out of love WON and those who killed out of hate LOST.
Mans
Posts: 73
Joined: August 5th, 2012, 3:52 pm

Re: Free will does not exist (Beware)

Post by Mans »

I just answer the title without reading the comment.

This question can be posed with four different wordage

1- Freedom doesn't exist.

2- Absolute freedom doesn't exist.

3- Free will doesn't exist.

4- Absolute free will doesn't exist.


The only question that its answer is no is the No.4
User avatar
dare2look
New Trial Member
Posts: 1
Joined: May 2nd, 2019, 8:43 am

Re: Free will does not exist (Beware)

Post by dare2look »

What would have a free will? Thinker of thoughts? Is it the thinker of thought that would or would not have freewill?
Post Reply

Return to “General Philosophy”

2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021