Nietzsche & music

Use this philosophy forum to discuss and debate general philosophy topics that don't fit into one of the other categories.

This forum is NOT for factual, informational or scientific questions about philosophy (e.g. "What year was Socrates born?"). Those kind of questions can be asked in the off-topic section.
Post Reply
User avatar
AntoF
New Trial Member
Posts: 1
Joined: June 5th, 2019, 8:42 am

Nietzsche & music

Post by AntoF »

Hello everyone,

I am new to the forum and definitely I cannot consider myself someone who understands anything about philosophy, so here I am asking you, who have much more knowledge than me.

As you can see from the subject, I am trying to find a connection between Nietzsche and music, in particular an author or a composition that well suits his ideas. Something that reflects his ideology as much as possible.

If my post it's in the wrong section I do apologize for that.

Cheers.
User avatar
Sculptor1
Posts: 7091
Joined: May 16th, 2019, 5:35 am

Re: Nietzsche & music

Post by Sculptor1 »

Wagner
User avatar
Felix
Posts: 3117
Joined: February 9th, 2009, 5:45 am

Re: Nietzsche & music

Post by Felix »

Sculpter1 wins this Jeopardy round: Who Is? - Richard Wagner

As I recall, Colin Wilson explored Nietzche's attitude towards music in his book, 'The Outsider', you may want to read it.
"We do not see things as they are; we see things as we are." - Anaïs Nin
User avatar
Hereandnow
Posts: 2837
Joined: July 11th, 2012, 9:16 pm
Favorite Philosopher: the moon and the stars

Re: Nietzsche & music

Post by Hereandnow »

Read Birth of Tragedy and Julian Young's Nietzsche's Philosophy of Art. You can't see where Nietzsche is coming from without understanding Schopenhauer, at least for basic ideas.
pianola
New Trial Member
Posts: 1
Joined: March 30th, 2019, 2:39 am

Re: Nietzsche & music

Post by pianola »

AntoF wrote:(...) Something that reflects his ideology as much as possible.
i don't think nietzsche had a specific ideology, as he would say , ideologies are linguistic constructs based and built on empirical ignorance, and their sole function is to give rise to a crude, political will that will eventually decay and perish.. but art for nietzsche was definitely a finer, more refined way of "affirming" the existence of the individual. nietzsche despised metaphysical pessimism and concluded that life itself should be seen as a form of art. all in all he put forth what he thought was the ideal blend : science (wissenschaft) [as it's deconstructive by nature, it would be used a mental shield against tradition, nationalism, religion, herd morality, etc.] , and art (kunst) [as a process of innovation and discovery], in order to establish the honest, affirmative, fulfilling life.

music, was of course the highest form of art for nietzsche.
nietzsche wrote:Given that a man loved the plastic arts or music as much as he was moved by the spirit of science, and that he deemed it impossible to end this contradiction by destroying the one and completely unleashing the other power; then, the only thing remaining to him is to make such a large edifice of culture out of himself that both powers can live there, even if at different ends of it; between them are sheltered conciliatory central powers, with the dominating strength to settle, if need be, any quarrels that break out.
nietzsche wrote:Language can never adequately render the cosmic symbolism of music, because music stands in symbolic relation to the primordial contradiction and primordial pain in the heart of the primal unity, and therefore symbolizes a sphere which is beyond and prior to all phenomena. Rather, all phenomena, compared with it, are merely symbols: hence language, as the organ and symbol of phenomena, can never by any means disclose the innermost heart of music; language, in its attempt to imitate it, can only be in superficial contact with music; while all the eloquence of lyric poetry cannot bring the deepest significance of the latter one step nearer to us.
Jklint
Posts: 1719
Joined: February 23rd, 2012, 3:06 am

Re: Nietzsche & music

Post by Jklint »

If you can get your hands on the Tristan Chord by Bryan Magee subtitled Wagner & Philosophy there's a long appendix regarding specifically Nietzsche's relationship to Wagner and his music without having to read a whole book. Wagner, in Nietzsche's psyche, was a permanent guest no matter how much he tried to consciously expunge him. Even in moments when his mind was gone he could still recognize a picture of Wagner and on one occasion said "him I loved much".
User avatar
Le Vautre
New Trial Member
Posts: 18
Joined: June 21st, 2019, 9:58 am

Re: Nietzsche & music

Post by Le Vautre »

Surprisingly, nobody here mentioned Bizet.
Nietzsche, The Case of Wagner, wrote:Yesterday I heard—would you believe it?—Bizet's masterpiece, for the twentieth time. Again I stayed there with tender devotion, again I did not run away. This triumph over my impatience surprises me. How such a work makes one perfect! One becomes a "masterpiece" oneself.— And really, every time I heard Carmen I seemed to myself more of a philosopher, a better philosopher, than I generally consider myself: so patient do I become, so happy, so Indian, so settled ... To sit five hours: the first stage of holiness!— May I say that the tone of Bizet's orchestra is almost the only one I can still endure? That other orchestral tone which is now fashion, the Wagnerian, brutal, artificial, and "innocent" at the same time and thus it speaks all at once to the three senses of the modern soul,—how detrimental to me is this Wagnerian orchestral tone! I call it scirocco. I break out into a disagreeable sweat. My good weather is gone.
Post Reply

Return to “General Philosophy”

2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021