Being vegan for ethical reasons.
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Re: Being vegan for ethical reasons.
In the mean time you are getting more and more high quality leather substitutes being created, therefore it's realistic to think that leather substitutes will end up being just as good as the real thing.. when it comes to pants and jackets they already are as good.
It's like this:
I'm sure if in 1969 you told people by 2016, you would be walking around with mobile phone that has the same processing power as the Apollo guidance computer, people would have thought you were crazy but that's the reality these days.
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- Favorite Philosopher: Terry Pratchett
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Re: Being vegan for ethical reasons.
But there is no way you can win.
If your ethical stance doesn't instantly fix every wrong in the entire world, and if you yourself are, or have ever been, less pure than the proverbial driven snow - like, you ate Jello as a child or owned a leather watch-band - everything you say is irrelevant.
(PS - nobody needs fake leather. Everything made of leather can just as well be made of hemp or canvas or duck, and they'd all be cheaper and lower maintenance. We haven't actually needed animal skins since the invention of weaving.)
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Re: Being vegan for ethical reasons.
I've just don't see why me eating meat before, makes what I'm saying here irrelevant.. that's all.Alias wrote: ↑July 10th, 2019, 10:29 pm Hey, Kaz - I respect the hell out of your effort here.
But there is no way you can win.
If your ethical stance doesn't instantly fix every wrong in the entire world, and if you yourself are, or have ever been, less pure than the proverbial driven snow - like, you ate Jello as a child or owned a leather watch-band - everything you say is irrelevant.
I have never said we need leather and a leather substitutes I have mentioned aren't fake PVC type leather.(PS - nobody needs fake leather. Everything made of leather can just as well be made of hemp or canvas or duck, and they'd all be cheaper and lower maintenance. We haven't actually needed animal skins since the invention of weaving.)
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Re: Being vegan for ethical reasons.
I'm genuinely.
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Re: Being vegan for ethical reasons.
I reread what you said, so disregard what I just said..Alias wrote: ↑July 10th, 2019, 10:29 pm Hey, Kaz - I respect the hell out of your effort here.
But there is no way you can win.
If your ethical stance doesn't instantly fix every wrong in the entire world, and if you yourself are, or have ever been, less pure than the proverbial driven snow - like, you ate Jello as a child or owned a leather watch-band - everything you say is irrelevant.
(PS - nobody needs fake leather. Everything made of leather can just as well be made of hemp or canvas or duck, and they'd all be cheaper and lower maintenance. We haven't actually needed animal skins since the invention of weaving.)
I have a feeling what you were trying to say is that when it comes to the general population, I'm not going to be able to win because of my past (I ate meat before) and if that's what you're saying, I agree with you -that will never change, unfortunately.
IMO people tend to attack the messenger, if they can't attack the message - if that makes sense.. is that what you mean?
- Sculptor1
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Re: Being vegan for ethical reasons.
It is exactly that question.
Why would I ever support a chemical industry that replaced leather, when having animals around us eat grass on the land, giving us natural fertiliser in a natural environment is preferable.
I do not want to be a part of your faux, synthetic dystopia.
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Re: Being vegan for ethical reasons.
You need to use lots of chemicals in the tanning process.
Which is bad for the environment.
See the tanning of pig or cow skin uses a cocktail of dangerous chemicals, which produce lots of waste with a high concentration of pollutants.
I'm guessing a lot of the pollution comes from leftover chemical waste from the tanning process, with the chemical waste not being contained properly -it just ends up leaking into rivers/waterways/nearby land.
This is what happens in animal agriculture too.
Oh and with pretty much all of the leather coming from China and India regulation is difficult.... without regulations, corners are cut and making as much money as possible - is the goal.
For example, the pig or cow skin could be vegetable tanned - which would be better for the environment but the majority of it is chromium-tanned - which is very bad for the environment.
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Re: Being vegan for ethical reasons.
Meat itself isn't evil but it does contain plenty of chemicals... things like synthetic growth hormones - they are testosterone, progesterone, zeranol and trenbolone acetate ..the chemical trimethylamine N-oxide (TMAO) is present in meat - it's linked to heart disease, not to mention synthetic antibiotics - which are widely used.. so if you buy meat, your are supporting the chemical companies that make them.
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Re: Being vegan for ethical reasons.
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Re: Being vegan for ethical reasons.
You can say the same **** about vegetables.Kaz_1983 wrote: ↑July 11th, 2019, 7:43 amMeat itself isn't evil but it does contain plenty of chemicals... things like synthetic growth hormones - they are testosterone, progesterone, zeranol and trenbolone acetate ..the chemical trimethylamine N-oxide (TMAO) is present in meat - it's linked to heart disease, not to mention synthetic antibiotics - which are widely used.. so if you buy meat, your are supporting the chemical companies that make them.
This is not a problem with meat - but with the way we process all food these days.
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Re: Being vegan for ethical reasons.
Yes your right, I never said otherwise..
It's a case of you claim that "biodegradable faux leather is bad for the environment", then I say "so is the tanning process used to create leather" - I claim that "meat has lots of chemicals in it too",. then you point out that "vegetable farmers use pesticides"
That's said:
Beef results in up to 105kg of greenhouse gases per 100g of meat, while tofu produces less than 3.5kg.... 15,000 litres of water are needed to make 1 kg beef, compared to 2,500 litres of water needed to make 1 kg tofu. .
Those numbers aren't equal tho
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Re: Being vegan for ethical reasons.
You can tan leathers with urine but nobody does that anymore.... it's better for the environment, so why not?
Because it's impractical obviously, not to mention that it's cheaper and easier for everybody to just buy leather from China or India... the problem is regulation is hard there, money is king, workers are disposable and things like environmentally friendly mean nothing.
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Re: Being vegan for ethical reasons.
Inside an Indian Tannery | The Ganges
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SQp11Y0v6M0
Toxic Tanneries Poisoning Workers in Bangladesh
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a0UCeTjhSJI
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