Is Time Just an Idea?

Discuss any topics related to metaphysics (the philosophical study of the principles of reality) or epistemology (the philosophical study of knowledge) in this forum.
Post Reply
User avatar
LuckyR
Moderator
Posts: 7935
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

Re: Is Time Just an Idea?

Post by LuckyR »

gater wrote: September 12th, 2019, 2:58 pm Sure, his special theory is based on the false assumption that gravity effects time - it doesn't. Im not sure why he thought speed effects time - but this is silly too. Time is a constant - period, nothing effects time. His theories are more science fiction than actual science.
Cuz I said so?
"As usual... it depends."
User avatar
Sy Borg
Site Admin
Posts: 14997
Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Re: Is Time Just an Idea?

Post by Sy Borg »

This is gater's cue to demonstrate how his hypothesis of unchanging time will allow GPS to work.

As an animal on Earth, I personally feel as though time is a constant and unchanging flow but I have only ever known life in Earth's gravity well.
User avatar
Consul
Posts: 6038
Joined: February 21st, 2014, 6:32 am
Location: Germany

Re: Is Time Just an Idea?

Post by Consul »

Neri wrote: August 6th, 2019, 9:07 pm Eternalism refers to the doctrine of Parmenides. It holds that nothing really moves, changes, or happens. In other words, it denies the reality of time and says that only space is real. To Parmenides, the world was a single, impenetrable, and never-changing geometric object. This is sometimes called a block universe. We see this same idea in Einstein’s space/time, wherein time is reduced to an anisotropic space coordinate. McTaggart’s B series describes this view of time.
Your description of eternalism is incorrect! For it is false that "it holds that nothing really moves, changes, or happens," and that "it denies the reality of time and says that only space is real." The temporal dimension is as real as the three spatial dimensions, and there really is motion and change in the block universe: Things move by having different spatial locations/positions at different times, and they change by having different temporal parts with different (accidental) properties.
"We may philosophize well or ill, but we must philosophize." – Wilfrid Sellars
User avatar
Felix
Posts: 3117
Joined: February 9th, 2009, 5:45 am

Re: Is Time Just an Idea?

Post by Felix »

Re: Studies on the man who has spent more time in space than any other person and on his twin brother on Earth: https://bit.ly/2lqHGUT

"The one big find so far was that my telomeres, basically these things at the end of our chromosomes that shorten with stress and age, actually ended up longer than Mark’s. It’s the opposite of what the scientists expected, given the challenging environment on the ISS, exposure to radiation, etc. I was already six minutes younger than Mark but, as Einstein predicted, I’ve come back six minutes and 13 milliseconds younger after a year in space."

Woah, 13 milliseconds, that's got to be worth the many health benefits he describes in that article!

"It’s a six- to eight-month recovery. Then there’s things you can’t feel: bone loss, muscle loss, structural changes in my eyes. The effects of radiation at a genetic level – I don’t know what they’ll be."
"We do not see things as they are; we see things as we are." - Anaïs Nin
gater
Posts: 267
Joined: September 6th, 2019, 12:02 am

Re: Is Time Just an Idea?

Post by gater »

Greta wrote: September 13th, 2019, 6:55 pm This is gater's cue to demonstrate how his hypothesis of unchanging time will allow GPS to work.

As an animal on Earth, I personally feel as though time is a constant and unchanging flow but I have only ever known life in Earth's gravity well.
A GPS device is matter - gravity effects matter - by using time dilation, which accounts for the gravitational effects on the GPS device, it can give more accurate readings.
User avatar
Sy Borg
Site Admin
Posts: 14997
Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Re: Is Time Just an Idea?

Post by Sy Borg »

In that case you had better tell NASA, gater. Fame and fortune awaits you for the greatest breakthrough in physics since Newton.
gater
Posts: 267
Joined: September 6th, 2019, 12:02 am

Re: Is Time Just an Idea?

Post by gater »

For understanding the Universe? Honestly -I feel like its my duty to explain the Universe to the world - there is so much misunderstanding in the Scientific community. They base their beliefs on Einsteins theories - Einstein did not understand time, space, or gravity.

The Universe is simple - time and space are infinite, and time is a constant.
User avatar
Sy Borg
Site Admin
Posts: 14997
Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Re: Is Time Just an Idea?

Post by Sy Borg »

gater, you ignore experimental findings and make unreasoned assertions.

If you are basing your notion on the idea that time did not start with the big bang, then you are mistaking popular science journalism with science.

Time per se seemingly did not start with the BB, that was when it started as a construct that is meaningful to us. In the pre-big bang universe, there were no atoms, stars or planets to mark time as we know it with decay rates, rotations or orbits. Time would have been completely relative to whatever virtual particle was popping in or out of existence. No doubt things still happened, but nothing measurable happened.

As for space, when scientists talk of space being created, they are talking about regions that lie between objects. If there are no objects, there are no regions, and therefore no measurable space. Also note that space-time is not empty space. In space-time, some regions being dense (objects) and some being very sparse (outer space) but none are truly empty, ie. not true space in the theoretical sense.
gater
Posts: 267
Joined: September 6th, 2019, 12:02 am

Re: Is Time Just an Idea?

Post by gater »

No - the Big Bang was the start of our galaxy and surrounding galaxies. The Universe was already infinitely old when this happened, there was no beginning of time - and physically space can not end. Space does not expand - matter moves through space giving the illusion of expansion. The early Greek Philosophers had a much greater understanding of the Universe by using Logic than todays scientists that use telescopes.
BigBango
Posts: 343
Joined: March 15th, 2018, 6:15 pm

Re: Is Time Just an Idea?

Post by BigBango »

Greta wrote: September 17th, 2019, 5:02 pm gater, you ignore experimental findings and make unreasoned assertions.

If you are basing your notion on the idea that time did not start with the big bang, then you are mistaking popular science journalism with science.

Time per se seemingly did not start with the BB, that was when it started as a construct that is meaningful to us. In the pre-big bang universe, there were no atoms, stars or planets to mark time as we know it with decay rates, rotations or orbits. Time would have been completely relative to whatever virtual particle was popping in or out of existence. No doubt things still happened, but nothing measurable happened.
Greta, you are seemingly consistent with most of the assumptions of contemporary science. For instance, the lack of our measurability of time before the BB seems to support your scientifically approved notion that time "as we could know it, with measurable confidence" begins with the BB.

The problem I see with your thesis is that there are many metaphysical constructs within science that we cannot directly measure but do accept as real because the "theory", say The Standard Model for one, predicts the effect those theoretical particles would have on other particles we can measure after colliding particles in accelerators. Quarks or gluons have never been directly measured. They just must exist for the effect they have on bigger particles is predicted by the theory and so we can keep our belief in our theories. Therefore I suggest it is improper for you to dismiss theories do to a lack of measurability if you do not also apply that criticism to contemporary science.

The problem here is not to reject all unmeasurable notions but to formalize the kind of theoretical support that must surround the unmeasurable objects in order for us to take them seriously. While Kant moved to reject all theories that had no empirical basis, and I suppose that to mean measurable knowledge, we seem to have accepted within science the notion of "Empirically Lite", sort of like Bud Lite.

The Formalization of the Theoretical Support Needed to Accept the Existence of an Unmeasurable Object

(1.) The object needs to be a necessary part of a Consistent and Complete Theory.
(2.) The Theory needs to predict the effects on objects that we can measure.
gater
Posts: 267
Joined: September 6th, 2019, 12:02 am

Re: Is Time Just an Idea?

Post by gater »

Greta wrote: September 17th, 2019, 5:02 pm gater, you ignore experimental findings and make unreasoned assertions.

If you are basing your notion on the idea that time did not start with the big bang, then you are mistaking popular science journalism with science.

Time per se seemingly did not start with the BB, that was when it started as a construct that is meaningful to us. In the pre-big bang universe, there were no atoms, stars or planets to mark time as we know it with decay rates, rotations or orbits. Time would have been completely relative to whatever virtual particle was popping in or out of existence. No doubt things still happened, but nothing measurable happened.

As for space, when scientists talk of space being created, they are talking about regions that lie between objects. If there are no objects, there are no regions, and therefore no measurable space. Also note that space-time is not empty space. In space-time, some regions being dense (objects) and some being very sparse (outer space) but none are truly empty, ie. not true space in the theoretical sense.
Greta, its not that I ignore experimental findings, I fully understand the Universe and all of the laws that apply.
I assure you the Universe has always been here. The BB was just the start of this portion of the observable Universe.
User avatar
Sy Borg
Site Admin
Posts: 14997
Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Re: Is Time Just an Idea?

Post by Sy Borg »

BigBango wrote: September 17th, 2019, 6:47 pmThe problem here is not to reject all unmeasurable notions ...
If we rejected unmeasurable notions we could not live.

However, in matters of science, I am more inclined to believe scientists who deal with the issues and observe what we speak about every day than lay philosophers who imagine how reality might be with far less relevant information at their disposal.

The latter might sometimes be right but, on the whole, scientists are very much more reliable.
User avatar
Sy Borg
Site Admin
Posts: 14997
Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Re: Is Time Just an Idea?

Post by Sy Borg »

gater wrote: September 17th, 2019, 6:24 pmNo - the Big Bang was the start of our galaxy and surrounding galaxies.
Maybe.
gater wrote: September 17th, 2019, 6:24 pmThe Universe was already infinitely old when this happened, there was no beginning of time - and physically space can not end.
Maybe.
gater wrote: September 17th, 2019, 6:24 pmSpace does not expand - matter moves through space giving the illusion of expansion.
Experimental evidence apparently says otherwise.
gater wrote: September 17th, 2019, 6:24 pmThe early Greek Philosophers had a much greater understanding of the Universe by using Logic than todays scientists that use telescopes.
Hardly.
BigBango
Posts: 343
Joined: March 15th, 2018, 6:15 pm

Re: Is Time Just an Idea?

Post by BigBango »

Greta wrote: September 18th, 2019, 12:56 am
BigBango wrote: September 17th, 2019, 6:47 pmThe problem here is not to reject all unmeasurable notions ...
If we rejected unmeasurable notions we could not live.

However, in matters of science, I am more inclined to believe scientists who deal with the issues and observe what we speak about every day than lay philosophers who imagine how reality might be with far less relevant information at their disposal.

The latter might sometimes be right but, on the whole, scientists are very much more reliable.
Greta, I am really disappointed in your response to my post. I raised some valid issues about what kind of unmeasurable objects could be accepted if there were supportive theories to attest to their reality. Instead of arguing my points with counter claims you argue by diminishing the person who argues. You diminish gater by saying he is just spouting "popular science" and you have diminished my arguments by saying "I have a blockbuster science fiction story" and also comparing me to a "lay philosopher" who does not deal with the issues and observe what we speak about every day like scientists do.

I guess your measure of truth is not in arguing the issues but in rating the merits of the arguers.
gater
Posts: 267
Joined: September 6th, 2019, 12:02 am

Re: Is Time Just an Idea?

Post by gater »

Honestly I don't care if anyone believes me - but I speak the truth about infinite time and space - if the day comes that you can comprehend what that really means you will know that im right.
Post Reply

Return to “Epistemology and Metaphysics”

2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021