What is Art?

Use this forum to have philosophical discussions about aesthetics and art. What is art? What is beauty? What makes art good? You can also use this forum to discuss philosophy in the arts, namely to discuss the philosophical points in any particular movie, TV show, book or story.
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Sy Borg
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Re: What is Art?

Post by Sy Borg »

Jklint wrote: April 16th, 2020, 3:21 am
Count Lucanor wrote: April 15th, 2020, 9:55 pm
There you go. Anyone can say that his dog is as good an actor as Michael Caine, and anyone who opposes, is a snob. I doubt many would take acting classes with the owner of such wise judgement.
Really count, I have no idea why you would think there's any difference between something like this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIaLrdOm3G0

...and a Soufflé! :shock:
It might be a really, really, really outstanding Soufflé.
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Sculptor1
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Re: What is Art?

Post by Sculptor1 »

Count Lucanor wrote: April 15th, 2020, 9:55 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: April 15th, 2020, 5:26 pm
There are chefs out there that have as much craft as Bach.
There you go. Anyone can say that his dog is as good an actor as Michael Caine, and anyone who opposes, is a snob. I doubt many would take acting classes with the owner of such wise judgement.
Idiotic analogy. The fact is that cuisine is an art whether or not you like it, and there is a difference between Ronald McDonald's and Michel Roux.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Roux
So you are an objectivist?
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Sculptor1
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Re: What is Art?

Post by Sculptor1 »

Jklint wrote: April 16th, 2020, 3:21 am
Count Lucanor wrote: April 15th, 2020, 9:55 pm
There you go. Anyone can say that his dog is as good an actor as Michael Caine, and anyone who opposes, is a snob. I doubt many would take acting classes with the owner of such wise judgement.
Really count, I have no idea why you would think there's any difference between something like this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIaLrdOm3G0

...and a Soufflé! :shock:
I don't like Bach very much. Too religious for my liking. He pandered too much to his patrons. Now Beethoven is REAL talent.
A Soufflé can give as much pleasure as Bach.
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Count Lucanor
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Re: What is Art?

Post by Count Lucanor »

Jklint wrote: April 16th, 2020, 3:21 am
Count Lucanor wrote: April 15th, 2020, 9:55 pm
There you go. Anyone can say that his dog is as good an actor as Michael Caine, and anyone who opposes, is a snob. I doubt many would take acting classes with the owner of such wise judgement.
Really count, I have no idea why you would think there's any difference between something like this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIaLrdOm3G0

...and a Soufflé! :shock:
Oh, sure, haven't you seen the unbelievable amount of scholars and other specialists talking about the fabulous innovations and techniques of the great soufflés of history? There was a famous one made for the King of France, unfortunately he ate it, so the masterpiece was lost. All we have is the previous sketches and a whole chapter in the king's diary, lasting several days.
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Sculptor1
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Re: What is Art?

Post by Sculptor1 »

Count Lucanor wrote: April 16th, 2020, 12:27 pm
Jklint wrote: April 16th, 2020, 3:21 am

Really count, I have no idea why you would think there's any difference between something like this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIaLrdOm3G0

...and a Soufflé! :shock:
Oh, sure, haven't you seen the unbelievable amount of scholars and other specialists talking about the fabulous innovations and techniques of the great soufflés of history?
https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/log ... -Authority
There was a famous one made for the King of France, unfortunately he ate it, so the masterpiece was lost. All we have is the previous sketches and a whole chapter in the king's diary, lasting several days.
Jklint
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Re: What is Art?

Post by Jklint »

Count Lucanor wrote: April 16th, 2020, 12:27 pm
Jklint wrote: April 16th, 2020, 3:21 am

Really count, I have no idea why you would think there's any difference between something like this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIaLrdOm3G0

...and a Soufflé! :shock:
Oh, sure, haven't you seen the unbelievable amount of scholars and other specialists talking about the fabulous innovations and techniques of the great soufflés of history? There was a famous one made for the King of France, unfortunately he ate it, so the masterpiece was lost. All we have is the previous sketches and a whole chapter in the king's diary, lasting several days.
I wonder what happened to it after he ate it! Why is it that all supreme masterpieces of the culinary arts never last long compared to the second rate stuff like the B minor mass and Beethoven's Missa Solemnis. I'm convinced that Beethoven would have enjoyed life more had he become a master chef instead of a composer. No doubt the pretzel would have been discovered much earlier.
Jklint
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Re: What is Art?

Post by Jklint »

Sculptor1 wrote: April 16th, 2020, 6:19 am
Jklint wrote: April 16th, 2020, 3:21 am

Really count, I have no idea why you would think there's any difference between something like this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIaLrdOm3G0

...and a Soufflé! :shock:
I don't like Bach very much. Too religious for my liking. He pandered too much to his patrons. Now Beethoven is REAL talent.
A Soufflé can give as much pleasure as Bach.
I guess that means you don't like soufflés!
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Sculptor1
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Re: What is Art?

Post by Sculptor1 »

Jklint wrote: April 16th, 2020, 5:33 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: April 16th, 2020, 6:19 am

I don't like Bach very much. Too religious for my liking. He pandered too much to his patrons. Now Beethoven is REAL talent.
A Soufflé can give as much pleasure as Bach.
I guess that means you don't like soufflés!
That's not a valid conclusion, but, Lemon meringue is my triumph.
A good steak, with mustard sauce with Pomme Frites with mayonnaise, followed by Lemon Meringue whilst listening to Beethoven is the pinnacle of artistic appreciation.

Self-styles Count Luckless might pretend to like Bach - but no one really wants to listen to that choral droning for long.
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Count Lucanor
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Re: What is Art?

Post by Count Lucanor »

Jklint wrote: April 16th, 2020, 4:26 pm
Count Lucanor wrote: April 16th, 2020, 12:27 pm
Oh, sure, haven't you seen the unbelievable amount of scholars and other specialists talking about the fabulous innovations and techniques of the great soufflés of history? There was a famous one made for the King of France, unfortunately he ate it, so the masterpiece was lost. All we have is the previous sketches and a whole chapter in the king's diary, lasting several days.
I wonder what happened to it after he ate it! Why is it that all supreme masterpieces of the culinary arts never last long compared to the second rate stuff like the B minor mass and Beethoven's Missa Solemnis. I'm convinced that Beethoven would have enjoyed life more had he become a master chef instead of a composer. No doubt the pretzel would have been discovered much earlier.
Yes, the poor lost souls of Bach and Beethoven missed their chances for true greatness. Just imagine the amount of musical ideas contained in a single work by any of them, the different melodic passages, their accompanying harmony, the modal changes, the instrumentation, I mean, literally dozens and dozens of musical ideas and variables that had to be put together to form a unity, all of that compared to the extreme complexity and variety of a spinach soufflé or a lemon pudding, with perhaps hundreds of cooking variables that only a true genius could manage.

But hey, let's not get carried away and become snobs here, even the hot dog car at the street corner delivers pure artistry. Pretending that high-end cooking is better would be pure vanity.
Jklint
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Re: What is Art?

Post by Jklint »

Sculptor1 wrote: April 16th, 2020, 6:15 pm
Jklint wrote: April 16th, 2020, 5:33 pm

I guess that means you don't like soufflés!
That's not a valid conclusion, but, Lemon meringue is my triumph.
A good steak, with mustard sauce with Pomme Frites with mayonnaise, followed by Lemon Meringue whilst listening to Beethoven is the pinnacle of artistic appreciation.

Self-styles Count Luckless might pretend to like Bach - but no one really wants to listen to that choral droning for long.
Kind of ironic isn't it. Universally considered as one the greatest composers of all time yet no one really wants to listen to that choral droning for long. So what do you think of Handel, the other giant of the baroque though not quite considered his equal?
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ian37
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Re: What is Art?

Post by ian37 »

Greetings, everyone. Total newbie on this end who also is a teacher and writer. This is an interesting topic and I am currently reading Gadamer's book 'Truth and Method'. It seems to suggest that art is not defined by the same parameters as other kinds of knowledge. Humanistic learning is not possible to be organized into the same rules as the scientific method. This may be important to remember when considering what art actually is. There is of course differences in beauty in between that which is created and the natural. A beautiful mountain may be aesthetically pleasing. Yet, is this actually classified as art? Art to me is something creative which is inwardly created by a human being in order to express something. It is then up to individual interpretation once the outer product is created.
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Sculptor1
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Re: What is Art?

Post by Sculptor1 »

Jklint wrote: April 16th, 2020, 8:29 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: April 16th, 2020, 6:15 pm
That's not a valid conclusion, but, Lemon meringue is my triumph.
A good steak, with mustard sauce with Pomme Frites with mayonnaise, followed by Lemon Meringue whilst listening to Beethoven is the pinnacle of artistic appreciation.

Self-styles Count Luckless might pretend to like Bach - but no one really wants to listen to that choral droning for long.
Kind of ironic isn't it. Universally considered as one the greatest composers of all time yet no one really wants to listen to that choral droning for long. So what do you think of Handel, the other giant of the baroque though not quite considered his equal?
I adore his Saraband.
But once you have Beethoven you have most of what you need.
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Sculptor1
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Re: What is Art?

Post by Sculptor1 »

"Slavery is faceless".
LIfesized stoneware, coiled and slabbed, fired in one piece.

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/8008667 ... &x=16&y=11

Why is this art?
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Sculptor1
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Re: What is Art?

Post by Sculptor1 »

Motherhood.

Cold Cast Bronze Resin

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/42/65/db ... e93187.jpg

What makes this art?
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LuckyR
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Re: What is Art?

Post by LuckyR »

Sculptor1 wrote: May 7th, 2020, 4:33 am Motherhood.

Cold Cast Bronze Resin

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/42/65/db ... e93187.jpg

What makes this art?
What's the difference between this post and a 1955 parent asking their teenager what makes Chuck Berry's Maybellene music?
"As usual... it depends."
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