God and Good

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
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Marvin_Edwards
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Re: God and Good

Post by Marvin_Edwards »

Jing or Jang wrote: May 16th, 2020, 11:39 pm
Marvin_Edwards wrote: May 16th, 2020, 6:18 pmWell, if your child puts on his shoes without his socks, what do you say? "That's not right, son. You need to put your socks on first." He did something wrong, and you lovingly correct him. It probably wasn't his intent to do something wrong, so we don't blame or scold. So, already we have the concepts of "right" and "wrong". ....
Already "we" have this concept? You may have the concept of shoes without socks being "wrong" but do not speak for humanity on the subject of "right" and "wrong". That in itself is a "wrong".
Of course.
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Jing or Jang
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Re: God and Good

Post by Jing or Jang »

Marvin_Edwards wrote: May 17th, 2020, 8:38 am
Jing or Jang wrote: May 16th, 2020, 11:39 pm

Already "we" have this concept? You may have the concept of shoes without socks being "wrong" but do not speak for humanity on the subject of "right" and "wrong". That in itself is a "wrong".
Of course.
If you are aware of it ... then why did you say it?
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Pattern-chaser
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Re: God and Good

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Marvin_Edwards wrote: May 16th, 2020, 6:18 pm Well, if your child puts on his shoes without his socks, what do you say? "That's not right, son. You need to put your socks on first." He did something wrong, and you lovingly correct him. It probably wasn't his intent to do something wrong, so we don't blame or scold.
I assume you are aware that many people these days choose to wear their footwear without socks? Grown-up people; adults able to make their own (moral) decisions. Are we to assume your concept of right and wrong, as it applies to footwear, places these other people in the wrong? I think not. 🤔

Yours is a great example of how this sort of morality is not universal, and in this sense not objective.
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Marvin_Edwards
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Re: God and Good

Post by Marvin_Edwards »

Jing or Jang wrote: May 17th, 2020, 9:17 am
Marvin_Edwards wrote: May 17th, 2020, 8:38 am
Of course.
If you are aware of it ... then why did you say it?
I presumed that the reader would know that I wasn't speaking of a universal moral rule that applied at all times to all people, but simply a situational case of "this is better than that in this situation". The situation was one where the parent was teaching the child to put his socks on first, and then the shoes. That is a common situation that everyone is familiar with. Now, in cultures where people do not wear socks, it would not apply. But why should I spell it out in such detail, when the reader would already understand what I was talking about?
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Marvin_Edwards
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Re: God and Good

Post by Marvin_Edwards »

Pattern-chaser wrote: May 18th, 2020, 10:23 am
Marvin_Edwards wrote: May 16th, 2020, 6:18 pm Well, if your child puts on his shoes without his socks, what do you say? "That's not right, son. You need to put your socks on first." He did something wrong, and you lovingly correct him. It probably wasn't his intent to do something wrong, so we don't blame or scold.
I assume you are aware that many people these days choose to wear their footwear without socks? Grown-up people; adults able to make their own (moral) decisions. Are we to assume your concept of right and wrong, as it applies to footwear, places these other people in the wrong? I think not. 🤔

Yours is a great example of how this sort of morality is not universal, and in this sense not objective.
Objective morality is situational. What is objectively good to do in one situation may be objectively bad to do in another situation. For example, it is objectively good to give a glass of water to the man dying of thirst in the desert, but objectively bad to give the same glass of water to the man drowning in the swimming pool.
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Terrapin Station
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Re: God and Good

Post by Terrapin Station »

Marvin_Edwards wrote: May 18th, 2020, 12:49 pm For example, it is objectively good to give a glass of water to the man dying of thirst in the desert,
Not if he wants to die of thirst in the desert.
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Jing or Jang
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Re: God and Good

Post by Jing or Jang »

Terrapin Station wrote: May 19th, 2020, 6:53 pm
Marvin_Edwards wrote: May 18th, 2020, 12:49 pm For example, it is objectively good to give a glass of water to the man dying of thirst in the desert,
Not if he wants to die of thirst in the desert.
Or if he's an alcoholic and needs "a drink".
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