All existence and non existence as the one Absolute

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Terrapin Station
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Re: All existence and non existence as the one Absolute

Post by Terrapin Station » May 20th, 2020, 6:52 am

Consul wrote:
May 19th, 2020, 7:24 pm
Terrapin Station wrote:
May 19th, 2020, 6:57 pm
First, how are you defining "metaontological realism"?
As I said, I mean the view that the subject matter of ontology is being/existence/reality (itself), and that being/existence/reality has an objective, concept- and thought-independent categorial structure (in itself) that isn't mentally or linguistically constructed or invented by ontologists.
That makes your view clearer, but of course a lot of people doing ontology do not believe that there are objective categorial structures or that the gist of ontology is ferreting out categorial structures.

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Consul
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Re: All existence and non existence as the one Absolute

Post by Consul » May 20th, 2020, 9:07 am

Terrapin Station wrote:
May 20th, 2020, 6:52 am
That makes your view clearer, but of course a lot of people doing ontology do not believe that there are objective categorial structures or that the gist of ontology is ferreting out categorial structures.
To assert that the world lacks an objective categorial structure is to assert that it is in itself a structureless blob, an amorphous lump, a "formless, kindless, no differences, no similarities, noumenal 'blah'" (C. B. Martin).
"We may philosophize well or ill, but we must philosophize." – Wilfrid Sellars

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Re: All existence and non existence as the one Absolute

Post by Terrapin Station » May 20th, 2020, 9:16 am

Consul wrote:
May 20th, 2020, 9:07 am
Terrapin Station wrote:
May 20th, 2020, 6:52 am
That makes your view clearer, but of course a lot of people doing ontology do not believe that there are objective categorial structures or that the gist of ontology is ferreting out categorial structures.
To assert that the world lacks an objective categorial structure is to assert that it is in itself a structureless blob, an amorphous lump, a "formless, kindless, no differences, no similarities, noumenal 'blah'" (C. B. Martin).
You know too much about philosophy to claim a false dichotomy such as "One is either a realist on categories or one believes that the world is a structureless blob . . . "

Don't you?

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Consul
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Re: All existence and non existence as the one Absolute

Post by Consul » May 20th, 2020, 11:24 am

Terrapin Station wrote:
May 20th, 2020, 9:16 am
You know too much about philosophy to claim a false dichotomy such as "One is either a realist on categories or one believes that the world is a structureless blob . . . "
Don't you?
This is a true dichotomy: The world is either in itself ontologically differentiated and structured or it is not.
"We may philosophize well or ill, but we must philosophize." – Wilfrid Sellars

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Re: All existence and non existence as the one Absolute

Post by Terrapin Station » May 20th, 2020, 12:23 pm

Consul wrote:
May 20th, 2020, 11:24 am
Terrapin Station wrote:
May 20th, 2020, 9:16 am
You know too much about philosophy to claim a false dichotomy such as "One is either a realist on categories or one believes that the world is a structureless blob . . . "
Don't you?
This is a true dichotomy: The world is either in itself ontologically differentiated and structured or it is not.
The word "category" doesn't refer to "ontologically differentiated."

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Consul
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Re: All existence and non existence as the one Absolute

Post by Consul » May 23rd, 2020, 1:52 pm

Terrapin Station wrote:
May 20th, 2020, 12:23 pm
Consul wrote:
May 20th, 2020, 11:24 am
This is a true dichotomy: The world is either in itself ontologically differentiated and structured or it is not.
The word "category" doesn't refer to "ontologically differentiated."
Ontological categories are or refer to basic kinds or classes of entities, whose boundaries create ontological differentiation or division in reality.
"We may philosophize well or ill, but we must philosophize." – Wilfrid Sellars

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Re: All existence and non existence as the one Absolute

Post by Terrapin Station » May 23rd, 2020, 3:05 pm

Consul wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 1:52 pm
Terrapin Station wrote:
May 20th, 2020, 12:23 pm

The word "category" doesn't refer to "ontologically differentiated."
Ontological categories are or refer to basic kinds or classes of entities, whose boundaries create ontological differentiation or division in reality.
It's as if you have no familiarity with nominalists.

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Re: All existence and non existence as the one Absolute

Post by Consul » May 23rd, 2020, 4:34 pm

Terrapin Station wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 3:05 pm
It's as if you have no familiarity with nominalists.
Nominalism is either the rejection of universals or the rejection of abstracta; and it's perfectly compatible with (general) categorial realism, according to which reality has some objective ontological structure or other. For categorial antirealism about some ontological categories such as universals and abstracta doesn't entail categorial antirealism about all ontological categories.
"We may philosophize well or ill, but we must philosophize." – Wilfrid Sellars

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Re: All existence and non existence as the one Absolute

Post by Terrapin Station » May 23rd, 2020, 4:44 pm

Consul wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 4:34 pm
Terrapin Station wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 3:05 pm
It's as if you have no familiarity with nominalists.
Nominalism is either the rejection of universals or the rejection of abstracta; and it's perfectly compatible with (general) categorial realism, according to which reality has some objective ontological structure or other. For categorial antirealism about some ontological categories such as universals and abstracta doesn't entail categorial antirealism about all ontological categories.
Categories are concrete, external what-exactlies in your view?

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Re: All existence and non existence as the one Absolute

Post by The Beast » May 26th, 2020, 7:16 pm

Hello! and Ditto.
Can consciousness be separated from her/his products? I have the idea of my consciousness. This idea is one of energy. A total of individual energies arising from the living cells of my body. Am I conscious of my hand or is my hand conscious? The actions of my hand are goal oriented and so is consciousness. Are there competing goals? From the realm of quantum energy and the collective consciousness is the emergent covid-19. A virus and a ball of energy. Surely , I have pondered life. I'm saying that my hand is the product of consciousness. My understanding is… and yet the same imperfect truth and the change within the parameters allowed in time and space or the cheap novel of the here and now with no end. To “know” Im happy with my imperfect truth

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Re: All existence and non existence as the one Absolute

Post by Greta » May 29th, 2020, 8:28 pm

The Beast wrote:
May 26th, 2020, 7:16 pm
Am I conscious of my hand or is my hand conscious? The actions of my hand are goal oriented and so is consciousness. Are there competing goals?
I like this. Each part of our body consists of a range of cell and microbe communities, each with its own agenda. There is definitely a push-pull dynamic all over the body, just as a society will experience the pushing and pulling of its communities.

The important point here is that community wishes are routinely overridden - the body is a dictatorship. Dictators will always claim that the societies they control are 100% behind them. This is, of course, not true.

Our bodies are how the CCP aspires to be - with so much control over its communities that it does not see them as living things, just as "cells" - biological machines. In this schema, obedient biological machines always do the bidding of their "god", who controls them in every respect.

That is the POV as a dictator/deity. The truth is more complex and nuanced. What we actually have in our bodies are countless "cities" of cells, each with their own specialised environment and modus operandi. Individual cells and microbe communities share resources and they compete for them. A cell dies and is replaced by another, again shaped by genetics and environment. Each cell or microbe, while obviously not aware of broader existence, has their own small interests that end up playing a role in a body part's function, of which the cell knows nothing.

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Re: All existence and non existence as the one Absolute

Post by The Beast » May 30th, 2020, 2:39 pm

Hello. Obviously. existence and non existence are political terms as well. Parasites exist!!!

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