All drugs should be legal

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Sy Borg
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Re: All drugs should be legal

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I doubt you'd get much sense out of them. Terrapin. It's emotional. Some people simply don't like smoking and want anything they dislike to be banned. This is exactly why I like philosophical thought - to get away from such unreason.

People don't like the smoke, the smell, the ash or the perceived character weakness ('I don't need smoking to get by so neither should anyone else'). Much of such objections appear to stem from the joy of self-righteous w@nking.
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Jack DeFarge
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Re: All drugs should be legal

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I think that drugs and alcohol should be used in portions that suit us so we stay healthy. They should all be legal because we as humans would rationalise when to use them like for instance, medically or recreationally.
Steve3007
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Re: All drugs should be legal

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Greta wrote:I would also add lack of interest in philosophical thinking.
That's an interesting thought. Tax breaks for philosophy discussion and for people who don't discuss philosophy but are willing to forgo future medical treatments that can be shown to have been necessitated by lack of philosophy discussion. :)
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Terrapin Station
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Re: All drugs should be legal

Post by Terrapin Station »

Greta wrote: June 21st, 2020, 8:10 pm I doubt you'd get much sense out of them. Terrapin. It's emotional. Some people simply don't like smoking and want anything they dislike to be banned. This is exactly why I like philosophical thought - to get away from such unreason.

People don't like the smoke, the smell, the ash or the perceived character weakness ('I don't need smoking to get by so neither should anyone else'). Much of such objections appear to stem from the joy of self-righteous w@nking.
I agree, and that's part of what the move I'm suggesting is designed to ferret out. It removes the problem that they're supposedly objecting to, so if that were really their problem with such things, they should simply respond, "Sure, I'd be fine with smoking in that case."
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Re: All drugs should be legal

Post by Steve3007 »

Jack DeFarge wrote:I think that drugs and alcohol should be used in portions that suit us so we stay healthy.
I won't argue with that. If we decide to use them in different portions than those that are deemed to be healthy, should anybody other than the user do anything about it?
They should all be legal because we as humans would rationalise when to use them like for instance, medically or recreationally.
Do you have any thoughts on such things as taxation policy, which stop short of making things illegal but which attempt to have a causal influence on people's actions using financial incentives?
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Robert66
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Re: All drugs should be legal

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Steve 3007: 'I started smoking at the age of 15, when you could buy 10 B&H for 50p from a vending machine in the local amusement arcade while playing Pacman and listening to Howard Jones.'

What, now you think listening to Howard Jones should be legalised? Howard Jones' songs are "gateway songs". You have no-one else to blame for the fact that you are now listening to this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZX3B953Rc0I
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Robert66
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Re: All drugs should be legal

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Greta: 'Some people simply don't like smoking and want anything they dislike to be banned. This is exactly why I like philosophical thought - to get away from such unreason.

People don't like the smoke, the smell, the ash or the perceived character weakness ('I don't need smoking to get by so neither should anyone else'). Much of such objections appear to stem from the joy of self-righteous w@nking.'

And some people simply like smoking - also a problem. I am one of them. I especially like to smoke a big joint at 9am on Monday. I always smile and say hello to people cowering in stinky corners with their guilt-laden fags, and I always glare back at the self-righteous wankers, or pull a face at them, and yell "I hope you paid your fresh air tax".
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Sy Borg
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Re: All drugs should be legal

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Terrapin Station wrote: June 22nd, 2020, 8:39 am
Greta wrote: June 21st, 2020, 8:10 pm I doubt you'd get much sense out of them. Terrapin. It's emotional. Some people simply don't like smoking and want anything they dislike to be banned. This is exactly why I like philosophical thought - to get away from such unreason.

People don't like the smoke, the smell, the ash or the perceived character weakness ('I don't need smoking to get by so neither should anyone else'). Much of such objections appear to stem from the joy of self-righteous w@nking.
I agree, and that's part of what the move I'm suggesting is designed to ferret out. It removes the problem that they're supposedly objecting to, so if that were really their problem with such things, they should simply respond, "Sure, I'd be fine with smoking in that case."
Sorry, I missed this. Yes, in principle. If smoking was the sole, or even the primary, determinant of health, I'd agree. But it seems like cracking a walnut with a sledgehammer. Also, it seems to have been some time since I've seen evidence sway a person from an emotional position.

Let's say that that concession was enough, and so we create a new class of citizen with no rights to taxpayer funded healthcare. But taxpayers also pay for those who eat tons of sugar, who let themselves become obese and/or become diabetic, who do not exercise, who sit with poor posture, who become stressed over trivia, who choose dangerous or high stress jobs, those who tend to pick fights, those who engage in dangerous leisure pursuits, those who have unsafe sex, who have indiscriminate health with weak precautions, people who have babies too young, irresponsible parents, abusive parents, neglectful parents, spouse beaters, those who drive those new giant cars without the skills needed to drive a %^&$% truck, those who choose abusive partners, those with suicidal ideation, thieves, murderers, rapists and chronic liars ... that's maybe a half to a third of the list I could construct off the top of my head of people who put themselves at varying degrees of risk who would be medically covered while smokers were excluded.

What we need is more logic in the public conversation, but I'm not holding my breath on that one.
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Sy Borg
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Re: All drugs should be legal

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Robert66 wrote: December 8th, 2020, 3:01 pm Greta: 'Some people simply don't like smoking and want anything they dislike to be banned. This is exactly why I like philosophical thought - to get away from such unreason.

People don't like the smoke, the smell, the ash or the perceived character weakness ('I don't need smoking to get by so neither should anyone else'). Much of such objections appear to stem from the joy of self-righteous w@nking.'

And some people simply like smoking - also a problem. I am one of them. I especially like to smoke a big joint at 9am on Monday. I always smile and say hello to people cowering in stinky corners with their guilt-laden fags, and I always glare back at the self-righteous wankers, or pull a face at them, and yell "I hope you paid your fresh air tax".
It's the usual problem, people not accepting human diversity in complex societies that only survive by virtue of diversity. So, whole different people respond differently to different stimuli, and then a majority imposes its will on the others. We can see how well the War on Drugs is working out, how out of step with human nature it is.

Sadly, human nature is on the way out, as we are being out-competed by machines and those who are more machinelike than we are, ie. those who are more locked into convention, more obedient to authority, less creatively inclined, less mercurial etc.

These days I am periodically damned by the self righteous (sometimes aggressively) for walking a calm, gentle, elderly dog off-leash, giving her the dignity she deserves and the responsibility she has earned in her twilight years. But "machine people" - who detest other species and locked into rules (unless it's them) - cannot understand such concepts.

It seems to me that "machine people" will dominate the world ever more, leeching the creativity and ideas of those who are less locked in, while punishing them for the eccentricities that so often come as part of the creative package.
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Mfras32
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Re: All drugs should be legal

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pjkeeley wrote: August 12th, 2008, 11:05 pm There are many reasons, but ultimately it comes down to this: nobody should be able to decide what we put into our own bodies except us. It is that simple.
Hello,

I understand your point about how it should only be our own decision with what is done with our bodies. I feel this way to an extent. However, the presence of gateway drugs can influence some to participate with these drugs when they otherwise would not have. There's no question that illegal drugs harm the body to an extent, and I believe this is one reason why all drugs should not be legal. Also, for the safety of others, all drugs should not be legal. The side effects of a numerous amount of drugs can cause one to act in a manner that could hurt others physically or emotionally. Feel free to reply to my comment and let me know what you think. Lastly, I am a college student in a philosophy course; do you mind if I use this post and my reply as a portion of my project? It is based on discussions relating to moral questions. Thank you.
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pjkeeley-
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Re: All drugs should be legal

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I appreciate your reply. You do have my permission to use this discussion on your project. Good luck!
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Re: All drugs should be legal

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Greta wrote: June 21st, 2020, 8:10 pmSome people simply don't like smoking and want anything they dislike to be banned.
Perhaps it would be helpful to make a distinction between smoking, and being in the tobacco business?

The tobacco companies, which are run by a collection of people who are already very rich, have been killing about 1,000 Americans a day for decades, with many more around the world. If we are to allow this kind of activity then I should be allowed to open a cookie factory which knowingly and deliberately kills 1,000 people a day when my cookies are consumed as directed. In other words, from this perspective corporations would be allowed to do any damn thing they want, no matter the damage inflicted upon the public.

The government should nationalize the tobacco industry (ie. seize all their assets) and take over management of the tobacco supply chain. The product should be steadily re-engineered to make it ever less addictive. Tobacco company profits and ad dollars should be reinvested in further public education.

Smoking would still be legal. Tobacco would still be available. But instead of the goal of the distributor being to sell as much product as possible, the goal of the government would be to make the product ever less appealing.

Anybody can smoke if they are stupid enough to do so. Nobody but the government can distribute tobacco products. Smoking is legal, tobacco business illegal.

COVID will probably wind up killing in one year the same amount of people that the tobacco companies routinely kill every year. We're VERY interested in COVID, and have almost no interest in the tobacco companies. It's not just smokers who are being irrational.
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Sy Borg
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Re: All drugs should be legal

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NukeBan wrote: December 20th, 2020, 11:34 amThe government should nationalize the tobacco industry (ie. seize all their assets) and take over management of the tobacco supply chain. The product should be steadily re-engineered to make it ever less addictive. Tobacco company profits and ad dollars should be reinvested in further public education.
I understand your angle and it makes sense to control what's put in cigs, such as sugar to make it more palatable for young people trying it out, and various carcinogens to aid in burning and nicotine absorption, to increase addictive qualities.

But selling a government takeover of anything in the current political climate would probably be political suicide.
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Re:

Post by Sculptor1 »

Belinda wrote: August 13th, 2008, 2:19 pm People who make themselves ill are a drain on society is not reasoning, it is a fact.
You are right - it is not a reason. Not a reason to make pot illegal.
NukeBan
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Re: All drugs should be legal

Post by NukeBan »

Greta wrote: December 20th, 2020, 6:02 pmBut selling a government takeover of anything in the current political climate would probably be political suicide.
Well, any politician who doesn't have the balls to confront the deliberate killing of 1,000 people a day for decades should look for another line of work. That is, pretty much all of them.

Philosophers too. How can one claim to be rational while ignoring a moral crime of such scale?

We are a strange species. We love to whine and complain and point the accusing finger etc, but the tobacco companies somehow escape our notice.
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